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4809 Posts |
 Posted - 04/28/2010 : 19:04:58
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Unbelievably, and against all odds, the 8th seeded Montreal Canadiens have come back from a 3-1 series defecit and defeated the Washington Capitals, in what can only be described as a stunning performance by Halak and his teammates.
Your thoughts on why the Habs won - or the Caps lost - and where this ranks in terms of all time upsets . . . as it surely has to be way up there.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Edited by - n/a on 04/28/2010 19:05:44
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n/a
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4809 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2010 : 19:10:46
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I will comment more later, but for now, I am still in disbelief of how they pulled it off. To me, everything that could have gone their way did, and there is no doubt that they really got inside the heads of many key Washington players - Ovechkin, Semin, Green.
I actually don't think Washington choked or underperformed, as much as Montreal played a perfect style and game against them to win, coupled with what was necessary from Halak - a Dryden-like performance to steal at least two games and keep them in game 7 until the end.
I really can't believe it, still.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2010 : 19:18:55
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There are various reasons.
First and foremost is going 1 for 33 on the PP after being the league's best all season makes it nearly impossible to win. Secondly, Halak was completely out of the world. Semin has not scored in an generation of playoff games and Mike Green was a shadow of himself.
Take nothing away from Montreal. That may have been the best exhibition of team defense (shot blocking, coverage, etc) that I have ever watched. It also seemed that even though they had limited chanced, the Capitalized(pun intended) on them.
That being said, I think it was Darren Pang who said it best. The Freelance and Skill of the Capitals was beat by structure and discipline of the Canadiens.
Couple of other points:
Anyone want to understand why I have issues with the way Mike Green plays defensively, this game was a perfect example. Two really bad penalties in the defensive end because of being out of position(one leading to a PP goal) and a really half hearted play on the puck against Lapierre led to the second goal. It's below average at best(which is what he was all series). He's got work to do to be the best.
Man did MacKenzie ever nail Ovechkin down. Streak in on the left wing, cut to the middle, use the defenseman as a screen, shoot, and repeat. Montreal figured that out.
Finally, this game 7 was as good as it gets ref-wise. Those two guys were awesome and didn't make a bad call or miss a call all night. |
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Guest9910
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Posted - 04/28/2010 : 19:27:30
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| The Washington Capitals aren't actually the best team in the league. They just made us think that they were during the regular season. It was just a big practical joke that the Caps played on us. And if you think about it long and hard enough, it's actually really funny! AHAHA get it? I always knew they were funny! |
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Guest2264
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Posted - 04/28/2010 : 19:49:38
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Why is it front-line russian players ALWAYS choke ?? this is a major trend over the past few years, playoffs AND international hockey. As soon as the pressure is on BYE, BYE...
Keep up the good work Mr. Burke, keep signing those big Canadian / US players...some of them will surely turn out good. As for between the ears hockey, Ovie isnt even in the same class as crosby, cant tie his slatelaces, no comparsion. |
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Axey
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
877 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2010 : 19:55:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest2264
Why is it front-line russian players ALWAYS choke ?? this is a major trend over the past few years, playoffs AND international hockey. As soon as the pressure is on BYE, BYE...
Keep up the good work Mr. Burke, keep signing those big Canadian / US players...some of them will surely turn out good. As for between the ears hockey, Ovie isnt even in the same class as crosby, cant tie his slatelaces, no comparsion.
With the exception of Datsyuk.
But wow GO HABS GO. I am still in disbelief, but I said I would rather face the Caps than Buffalo or Pitts, and good call by me apparently ahah
Now the road doesn't get any easier on to Pitts we go. |
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4809 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2010 : 20:18:09
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Yeah, that Markov totally folded for the Canadiens, what a slouch. (rolls eyes)
I still fail to see any merit in people's comments when they start on again about Ovechkin dogging it . . . misplaced energy, yes - but he was clearly giving it his all, and he was 100% effort out there. Now Semin is a different story . . . but I really don't think him being Russian has very much to do with it, other than him growing up in a culture where the value of the Stanley Cup was not nearly as high as it was for any Canadian boy.
No, I have to give way more credit to the Montreal Canadiens here, than slag the Caps - but that's just what I saw. And trust me, I as a Leafs fan would absolutely love to call it total good fortune for the Habs . . . but they just played a perfect gameplan with the perfect weapon (Halak in net).
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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MrBoogedy
Rookie
Canada
195 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2010 : 20:40:15
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As far as for where the comeback sits at all time... at the top, baby. First time in NHL history that an eighth-seeded team came back from a 3-1 deficit against the first-seeded team. Just doesn't get any better than that.
And I have to agree with beans insofar as it was a perfectly reffed game. Now time to hunt Penguins. |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2010 : 21:56:27
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I called this two games ago in another thread. Why?
Coaching and a captain who doesn't know how to lead.
This is the perfect example of why defence trumps offence.
All out offensive teams can have great success in the regular season. The problem is when it comes time for a 7 game series coaches come up with plans to counteract that offence. It happens time and again. Montreal's coaching staff did a superb job of rendering the Capital's offence ineffective. Halak was outstanding, but it was the total team effort and system that won the series. Gorges and Gill did a fantastic job. Which leads to the other reason Washington lost. Every time Ovechkin came down the left side Gorges was there tying him up and when he came down the right side Gill blocked his shots. Ovechkins offence was neutralized and when he isn't scoring or hitting he isn't contributing. He has not figured out how to lead a team yet nor do I know that he ever will figure it out. He has shown now in two years of playoffs that he is unwilling or unable to adapt to win. Many, many examples in the past and present who have done so successfully. There is also a question of heart. In the third period for example, right after the goal was disallowed Ovechkin gave up. It was evident in his effort and body language. Watching the play go by him. It wasn't until the last couple minutes that he started to try again and even then it wasn't with the desperation of a player who is about to be eliminated. Perhaps this loss will be what's needed for him to learn how to win. We will see.
Budreau is the other half of the coaching equation. He may have had success at other levels with coaching but I'm not so sure he ever will in the NHL if this is what we can expect from him. He was quite content to rely on his stars to get the job done. Clearly not a winning strategy. I don't care for his whining either.
Now with Montreal playing Pittsburgh we will see how leadership gets things done. |
Edited by - willus3 on 04/28/2010 22:01:03 |
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Guest9668
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Posted - 04/28/2010 : 22:15:00
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All out offensive teams 'can' win in the playoffs. Especially if its only the first round, and against an 8th seeded team. The problem was so clearly coaching in this case its laughable. Its 3-1 Caps, Martin devised a pretty solid defensive scheme, Halak caught fire and baaam, upset.
Did the caps make any adjustments? Boudreau threw out eight thousand line combo's in game 6, but I certainly didn't see any sort of plan or system in place. Biggest example of this of course is the PP, where the caps were completely silenced. It occurs that their entire PP is based on the Ovechkin one-timer.
Once Gorges and Gill started blocking everything, and they shadowed Ovy on the PP, then the caps were rendered useless. For all the flack Semin and Green will take (rightfully), where the heck was all the Caps secondary scoring? Brooks Laich, Fleischmann, Chimera, Corvo, Belanger- useless. Boudreau will be fired, and a hard-nosed type of coach needs to come in and be able to talk some sense into this team. They have the talent to go to the cup, but playing like that they never will. |
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4809 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2010 : 04:59:12
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Very good points on the coaching, gentlemen, and certainly, Ovechkin has not been able to adapt or change his game against a solid gameplan.
When all is said and done, if you have a super-talented team like the Caps that fail, then you must look at coaching.
Montreal's strategy of pure 'defence' - blocking shots, and giving strict man-to-man coverage to slow down the skilled players, and lining up at the blueline - only really works if you have a team like Washington willing to constantly try the same thing. And over and over again, I did see the Caps with absolutely no system try and finesse their way through the blueline, saw Ovechkin make the same rush down the wing, saw the same predictable passes to the point on the pp. On the pp specifically, they took away Green's and Ovie's point shot, and they concentrated on taking away cross ice passes. Halak rarely had to move side to side quickly, and as evidenced in last night's game, had far fewer shots to face because of the blocking (well over 35 blocked shots if I recall).
Montreal played their system to a T, were very good on the counter-attack, and even with all that, Halak still had to stand on his head. But in the end, you guys are right - I think it's coaching too, the more I think about it the more clear that becomes.
Didn't Boudreau win the Jack Adams award two years ago?
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2010 : 05:43:41
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Much like the Oilers of the 80's, who didn't win until they learned there are 2 sides of the puck, the Caps won't win until they can at least partially stop a team.
The perfect example of how weak a coach Bruce Boudreau is a 3% Power Play. Just keep trying the same thing there BB. No attempt to move Ovechkin to the 1/2 boards or down low to try to free him up. No changes what so ever.
I completely agree that Martin was the superior coach, but again it was not much of a competiton. Boudreau did nothing but shuffle lines all series. |
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Guest4190
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Posted - 04/29/2010 : 05:49:45
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Anyone else notice how much the Caps coach looks like Alfred Hitchcock? |
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strech that twine
Top Prospect
Canada
15 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2010 : 06:17:32
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Last night was awsome...been watching hockey for 40yrs..I'm 46...I've seen most of the ledgends and even went to the forum a couple of times...Boys this ranks right up there !!!!
I read all the posts to date and an common theme is taking shape..coaching ? Boudreau..Seems to me that he did exactly what you are supposed to do, You play your best players !!
Are you going to loose with you medocure players or win with your tallent ? He can't change Ovechkin (he'll never learn how to pass). On the pp they did move him around but a team defence shut him/them down. Semin was snake bit,green was a no show along with the rest of the cast ! I think that the locker room is finally going to be fed up with Ovey and his anticks, He is/wants to be the show, well he had his chance, again.
I don't think anyone has mention the goaltending or lack of for washington ?
What about the PK, montreal's PP ran at 20% kinda high for the playoffs, a better effort was needed from Wash and they never got it...
The season series was close that this souldn't be so much of a surprise.....
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Guest2292
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Posted - 04/29/2010 : 07:05:36
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| No comments on the disallowed goal either, which is surprising. Skate on skate contact is very rerely called, ive seen much more bumping in the crease never called. Refs better not let too much of this go from here on in or there will be a lot of backlash. Considering what is usually let go, i thought it was a brutal bad call.....just based on typical calls, not the actual rule. |
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Guest0288
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Posted - 04/29/2010 : 07:17:29
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I just made a post in Biased Reffing forum about that brutal call. Again, I am no Habs or Caps fan. So I am saying this from a neutral standpoint. The goal should have counted and it would have changed the game. It was a horrible call. I did not see any interference at all. In fact, I think he made a strong effort to get out of the way. Of course, all Montreal fans I know said it was obviously interference like Knuble bowled over Halak.
However, what I saw was kind of a minor scrape (if at that). It did not impede Halak movement at all.
The problem is what is the rule? Is it interference with any type of contact? If that is the case, make the calls consistent because I have seen goals count with much stronger contact.
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Guest0288
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Posted - 04/29/2010 : 07:25:46
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Washington imploded and lost the series themselves. Not a great comeback at all. It is definitely an big upset. A great comeback occurs when this happens with 2 great teams playing each other. Habs are a mediocre team that won with insane goaltending.
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strech that twine
Top Prospect
Canada
15 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2010 : 07:32:15
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Do we all remember game 2....
All washington did was run the net..literally....even pushed Halak right through the crease,No peanalty...
So I think justice was served, what goes around....
And yes I have to agree that the consistancy of the ref's is non existant...
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Edited by - strech that twine on 04/29/2010 07:33:19 |
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HawkinOilCountry
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
318 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2010 : 07:59:15
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Huge upset, and statistically it's probably one of the biggest ever.
Personally I rank this 2nd all time (of Hockey that I've actually watched). The Oilers thumping Detroit in the first round of 2006 was my favorite upset of all time.
The arena wall in chicago should be credited with a goal. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2010 : 08:58:34
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Stretch That Twine: If you are depending on karma to make things fair, I can guarantee you that you will be left looking up at the sky and shaking your fist at a cloud.
'Cause there ain't no karmic reffing.
I will pose this question to you, and to all Habs fans:
Wouldn't you have wished for game 2 to be called properly, which probably would have prevented Washington from winning, and would have had your team in all probability taking it in 6 on home ice? Fair and square?
Because I agree with you - Halak was getting run constantly, and the calls weren't made earlier in the series at all. Just like Anderson getting tonnes of interference, Luongo getting tons of contact, Bryzgalov getting tons of contact, etc etc etc.
At any rate, if you have goalie interference that was much more dramatic and NOT getting called earlier in the series, and then get the same thing called to the letter in a strict interpretation in the 7th game to call back a goal that was crucial . . . if anyone thinks that is fair, they don't know the meaning of the word.
Again, I am just talking about a fairly called game here that is AT BARE MINIMUM consistent within each series . . .
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2010 : 11:22:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Much like the Oilers of the 80's, who didn't win until they learned there are 2 sides of the puck, the Caps won't win until they can at least partially stop a team.
The perfect example of how weak a coach Bruce Boudreau is a 3% Power Play. Just keep trying the same thing there BB. No attempt to move Ovechkin to the 1/2 boards or down low to try to free him up. No changes what so ever.
I completely agree that Martin was the superior coach, but again it was not much of a competiton. Boudreau did nothing but shuffle lines all series.
What's funny too is that Ovechkin doesn't see that. His response after several of the games was 'we couldn't score'.
In reality they scored enough to win every game, they just didn't prevent the goals against. Until he realizes this he isn't going to win anything. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2010 : 13:06:57
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I talked to a HUGE Caps fan at worked today. His comment was that Boudeau was there to look like an idiot every time the camera's were on and yell at the refs every time a penalty was called.
To the point of the Caps vs 80's Oilers, the difference is the Oilers had a Coach and GM as well as Players who recognized that a little defense mixed with that amazing offense wins the Cup.
It also didn't hurt that the Oilers found Mr "I'll let in 4 goals but you are not getting the 5th" Grant Fuhr for the net.
Not sure if that is Washington today. I would not be surprised in the least to see a coaching change and one of the offensive stars moved for a defensive dynamo. Varlamov and Theodore also looked well below average. However, it's hard to stay warm when you only see 3-5 shots on net each period and most or all of them are actually scoring chances and not just shots. |
Edited by - Beans15 on 04/29/2010 14:16:13 |
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polishexpress
PickupHockey Pro
525 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2010 : 13:29:41
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Couldn't agree more about the coaching of Bruce Boudreau and the comments above.
Montreal made Ovechkin look stupid, he couldn't do a thing, and it definitely wasn't due to lack of effort. Jacques Martin simply knew how to have his players neutralise Ovechkin, Backstrom, and Semin(wait,Semin did it to himself).
And I think that instead of a bulletin board with some Washington player's quote, they probably watched the Youtube video of Ovechkin snowing a flag kid as motivation to beat the Caps. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2010 : 15:55:12
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quote:
Originally posted by polishexpress
Couldn't agree more about the coaching of Bruce Boudreau and the comments above.
Montreal made Ovechkin look stupid, he couldn't do a thing, and it definitely wasn't due to lack of effort. Jacques Martin simply knew how to have his players neutralise Ovechkin, Backstrom, and Semin(wait,Semin did it to himself).
And I think that instead of a bulletin board with some Washington player's quote, they probably watched the Youtube video of Ovechkin snowing a flag kid as motivation to beat the Caps.
No no no, you have it all wrong! I just heard on the radio that the "snowed" kid's name is Lubovmir Halak and is in fact Jaroslav Halak's son! THAT'S where the motivation came from! It wasn't the team getting motivated, it was just their goalie!
Okay, okay, i say this in jest, but it would make for a pretty darn good story!  |
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umteman
PickupHockey Pro
USA
662 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2010 : 15:59:18
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quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Unbelievably, and against all odds, the 8th seeded Montreal Canadiens have come back from a 3-1 series defecit and defeated the Washington Capitals, in what can only be described as a stunning performance by Halak and his teammates.
Your thoughts on why the Habs won - or the Caps lost - and where this ranks in terms of all time upsets . . . as it surely has to be way up there.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Well, a goalie on a hot streak can sometimes steal a series - but he can't steal the Stanely Cup. But it was the most unlikely comeback I have seen in my time.
Did you hear about the retired proctologist? He spent 40 years saying "what's a place like this doing in a girl like you?" |
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99pickles
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
671 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2010 : 16:26:13
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quote:
Originally posted by polishexpress
And I think that instead of a bulletin board with some Washington player's quote, they probably watched the Youtube video of Ovechkin snowing a flag kid as motivation to beat the Caps.
There may be some merit in this statement!
So what happened?
-- Martin did what a good coach does - try to find a solution to a problem, and they found it
-- Boudreau spent more time worrying about showing emotion from behind the bench then actually solving his problem at hand
-- Halak raised his level of play when his team needed it most
-- Caps PP and secondary scoring was not there when they needed it.
And I like this gem from willus:
"Ovechkins offence was neutralized and when he isn't scoring or hitting he isn't contributing. He has not figured out how to lead a team yet nor do I know that he ever will figure it out. He has shown now in two years of playoffs that he is unwilling or unable to adapt to win. Many, many examples in the past and present who have done so successfully. There is also a question of heart. In the third period for example, right after the goal was disallowed Ovechkin gave up. It was evident in his effort and body language. Watching the play go by him. It wasn't until the last couple minutes that he started to try again and even then it wasn't with the desperation of a player who is about to be eliminated. Perhaps this loss will be what's needed for him to learn how to win. We will see."
Spoken like a good coach there, willus! Anyone who has either been involved in coaching or taken coaching courses and programs knows that body language is extremely important. And, yes, Ovie was showing defeated body language.
I thought to myself after the game last night that Washington needs to treat Ovechkin as more of a physical Brett Hull piece of the puzzle, and less of a Crosby piece of the puzzle.
He is certainly an All-World sniper with a physical presence, but is he All-World at anything outside of that? He has proved that he is not...so far in his young career. He has plenty of time ahead though.
This is definitely on the short list of all-time upsets in playoff hockey.
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Fastkramer
Top Prospect
Canada
11 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2010 : 05:30:35
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| Way to go Habs!! don't think many north of the 49th were rooting for the Caps, me being one who wasn't. Way to shake up the East, there are upsets every year, and this one i was happy to see!! |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2010 : 07:10:49
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As an addendum, here is a blurb from Yahoo Sports that epitomises what needs to change for the Caps in terms of coaching and mindset:
quote:
After Wednesday’s setback, Boudreau bristled at a pointed query about whether the latest disappointment validates criticisms that his team’s style of play doesn’t work in the playoffs.
“It doesn’t validate anything,” Boudreau replied. “I think the way we play is the way we were built, and if we had to make all these guys into checkers and play a trap game, I think it would have been a pretty boring team to watch, and we wouldn’t have been anywhere near as successful as we were.”
So, Boudreau hasn't learned anything at all from this post season . . . yet. Funny how the thought of bringing in a little more defence and harder checking makes him retort as if it's being suggested they turn into the New Jersey Devils to win . . . because evryone can see that former champs Pittsburgh and Detroit are certainly not true "defensive" teams - they just know it needs to be a big part of their game.
That, and humility.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1315 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2010 : 16:27:25
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I've not had a chance to read many comments on here, due to being so busy and not having home internet at the moment. So I can't agree or disagree with anyone's comments.
But, in my opinion it boiled down to a couple of things.
1) Coaching. Montreal's Coaching after the first couple of games, turned this series around. The players fell in to the system given to them, of blocking shots, shutting down the middle and point.
Ovechkin comes down the wing, cuts to the middle, and shoots. Always has, still does. And Montreal realized that, and stopped it.
Semin was shut down completley, and rendered useless.
Green, did not play well enough defensively, to help win a game. Let alone a series.
2) Stopping the leagues top PP Unit.
Again, coaching could be partially responsible here. But the guys on the ice, did the job they were told. They stopped the point, put two men on Ovie at any given time, and played 2 on 4 after that. And they shut down the Caps PP, very, very well.
3) Jaroslav Halak
What can you say about Halak. The guy got in a groove, and took over the series. Without him, the Canadiens are golfing after 4 or 5 games. Has Price lost his job next season too? Likely.
That's just my quick evaluation. More can be said, i'm sure. But the Canadiens played system hockey. The Caps did not. And the system worked, very well.
Well done Canadiens.
Irvine/prez. |
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One of the greatest comeback upsets . . . ever? 
