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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
 Posted - 06/06/2010 : 17:46:11
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Their have been lots of rumors over the last 2 or even 3 year of Toronto trying to move Tomas Kaberle, but for the first time these rumors are being confirmed and even fulled by the leafs GM Brian Burke. Many believe Burke may be trying to get a draft pick in the first two rounds seeing as though he traded away both of his for Kessel. So my question to you what is Kaberle worth? What would you give up from your favorite team for Kaberle?
Pasty
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1315 Posts |
Posted - 06/06/2010 : 17:51:44
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Tomas Kaberle is a pretty valuable piece to a team, in my opinion. Especially, a team more talented than Toronto (at this point.)
He's an excellent puck moving defensemen, who isn't a liability defensively either. He can handle his own, at both ends of the ice.
He's not exactly over the hill, at the age of 32. Couple that with his current contract and, you have yourself a winner.
Will he request more after next season, when he becomes a UFA? Most likely. But, the team who snag him now from Toronto will have first dibs on him after that, as he seems to be a loyal guy. So they will have a chance to re-sign Kaberle, and likely for not a huge raise either.
He's well worth the pay, and can be a solid d-man for any team for another 5-6 years.
As for what I would give up, I'm not sure. I'd consider Burke's asking price of a 1st rounder though, depending on my position. (Later half), and whether my team was ready for a cup sooner rather than later. As, Kaberle fixes short-term issues rather quickly.
Irvine/prez. |
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4809 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2010 : 06:47:27
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I'm glad you said that, irvine, because I have heard a lot over the past two months about Kaberle not getting a first rounder . . . and I am unconvinced of this.
Specifically, I think it will be at worst a middling team, and more probably a good team that might get him in a trade. When in that position, you are usually prepared to deal first round picks for a piece that might put you over the top. Let's face it, on a team like Pttsburgh for instance, Kaberle might be the missing piece that gets them back in the finals, ans I would think a first round pick (which would end up being pretty late in the first round) would have to get augmented with another pick as well, or maybe a prospect.
Myself, I hope that Kaberle can get a first round pick as high as #4 or 5 . . . and my dream trade would be for Kaberle to go to Florida for their #3 pick, straight up. I honeslty think that would be a fair trade, as Kaberle is a valuable player.
But we'll see, and I am sure something will happen with Kabby this summer . . . I can just feel it.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2010 : 07:41:57
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quote:
Originally posted by slozo
I'm glad you said that, irvine, because I have heard a lot over the past two months about Kaberle not getting a first rounder . . . and I am unconvinced of this.
Specifically, I think it will be at worst a middling team, and more probably a good team that might get him in a trade. When in that position, you are usually prepared to deal first round picks for a piece that might put you over the top. Let's face it, on a team like Pttsburgh for instance, Kaberle might be the missing piece that gets them back in the finals, ans I would think a first round pick (which would end up being pretty late in the first round) would have to get augmented with another pick as well, or maybe a prospect.
Myself, I hope that Kaberle can get a first round pick as high as #4 or 5 . . . and my dream trade would be for Kaberle to go to Florida for their #3 pick, straight up. I honeslty think that would be a fair trade, as Kaberle is a valuable player.
But we'll see, and I am sure something will happen with Kabby this summer . . . I can just feel it.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
see i can't see anyone giving up a top 20 pick for Kaberle, and nothing against kabby he is a terrific puck moving defenseman not to mention he is sound in his own zone, and like you said he might be a good alternative for a team like pittsburg instead of giving 6 million to Gonchar when Kabby could fit the bill. but he is 32 , the amazing contract he is sighned to is up at the end of next years so he is essentially a long term rental, and just look at the pronger trade, same deal the off season entering his contract year what did the ducks get, a 2 prospects and a boarderline top 6 forward,,,, how could Burke get more for Kaberle? i will tip my hat to him if he does
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HawkinOilCountry
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
318 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2010 : 09:48:00
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Well I'll look at this two ways.
With my Chicago tinted glasses on I don't think the Hawks would offer much for Kaberle. Of course that could change if the Hawks don't win the cup. If I'm Chicago's GM I'm not interested.
With my Edmonton tinted glasses on I don't think they'd give up they're 1st or 2nd rounds picks for him. If they went after him it'd through trades.
So... from the perspective of my two favorite teams I don't see Toronto getting any draft picks from them. No high ones at least.
The arena wall in chicago should be credited with a goal. |
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4809 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2010 : 09:51:33
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Irvine, here is what Anaheim actually got for Pronger, as per Wikipedia:
"On June 27, 2009, Pronger, along with forward Ryan Dingle, was traded to the Philadelphia Flyers in exchange for forward Joffrey Lupul, defenceman Luca Sbisa, two first round draft picks and a conditional third round draft pick"
So Pronger, along with a prospect, gets traded for a solid third liner, a prospect d-man, 2 first round draft picks, and a conditional third rounder. So if Dingle and Sbisa are pretty much a wash, what we have for Pronger is TWO first rounders, a third liner and a conditional third rounder.
If we all agree that Pronger is certainly a step above Kaberle in the elite category, how much do you take away to get Kabby? My guess is, as I said, that a decent first round pick and a prospect is certainly not too high . . . in fact, it should be the going rate.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2010 : 10:00:02
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quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Irvine, here is what Anaheim actually got for Pronger, as per Wikipedia:
"On June 27, 2009, Pronger, along with forward Ryan Dingle, was traded to the Philadelphia Flyers in exchange for forward Joffrey Lupul, defenceman Luca Sbisa, two first round draft picks and a conditional third round draft pick"
So Pronger, along with a prospect, gets traded for a solid third liner, a prospect d-man, 2 first round draft picks, and a conditional third rounder. So if Dingle and Sbisa are pretty much a wash, what we have for Pronger is TWO first rounders, a third liner and a conditional third rounder.
If we all agree that Pronger is certainly a step above Kaberle in the elite category, how much do you take away to get Kabby? My guess is, as I said, that a decent first round pick and a prospect is certainly not too high . . . in fact, it should be the going rate.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
hmm i didn't know about the first round picks, but honestly unless i'm picking 20th or lower in a weak draft year i'm not giving up my first round pick for a 32 year old d man entering the last year of his contract, espcialy not in the salary cap world where with a little luck and some good scouting i can get a potential roster player for at least 3 years under 1 million
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4809 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2010 : 10:17:33
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Well then Pasty, you're probably just not getting any d-man of Kaberle's calibre or better!
This is the thing, too - teams like Pittsburgh, genuine contenders for the cup - they usually have to overpay. So if they want a Kaberle, who in this case might be that "missing piece" - they will have to outbid other clubs, and any GM will avoid giving away a player to give someone else the cup. Not that anything is assured of course, but you get my meaning . . . again, defencemen like Kaberle don't grow on trees, and there will be many bidders, I think.
Just remember who got those two first rounders for Pronger!
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2010 : 10:47:28
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no you may be right a team like pitts could decide to save 2 million let gonchar go and go get Kaberle and i could see them giving up their 1rst rounder but they must be picking in the latter half of the top 25 ? is it really worth it?
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polishexpress
PickupHockey Pro
525 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2010 : 11:39:43
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Another thing about the Pronger trade, when he was traded to Philly, he was either going into a contract year, or in a contract year, so very similar to Kaberle.
I hope no GM gives any first rounders for Kaberle, that would be very, very unwise, even if they were low first rounders. Kaberle is nowhere near Pronger's value.
But I can see Slozo's point about overpaying if you need a puck moving d-man.
Remember, though, Souray from the Oilers will also be available, so the market will not be scarce with offensive d-men that might be available for cheap(not in terms of salary cap though!) |
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2010 : 15:00:33
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| As i said in the other similar topic...wait and see, Burke will get a BIG return for kaberle, he will surprise many kaberle nay-sayers. Pronger may be better, but only has 3-4 years good years left, kaberle has 6-7 good years left yet. Look at what st.louis got in return for an over-the-hill Tkackuk 3 years ago, cant remember exactly, but i know it blew my mind, ( 1st time he was traded at the deadline). Kaberle is well worth a Patrick Sharpe type player. Kaberle is not a rental, he has a full year left on his contract, over the course of a year his new team will have plenty of time to re-sign him. These players have families and probably don`t like bouncing around from city to city upsetting their family life, good chance he will re-sign with his new team. I`ve read peoples comments... the flyers won`t trade Carter for Kaberle...after watching the cup finals...i wouldn`t trade kaberle for Carter, kaberle will fetch more. |
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2010 : 15:05:51
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| Polish Express....forgot to mention, you say S.souray is available ? your not comparing to kaberle ?? Who wants a player who plays half a season regularly, is terrible defensively and wants out of his city ? at least kaberle isn`t injury prone, plus he is loyal. |
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro
735 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2010 : 15:27:33
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If the Leafs are to trade Kaberle for a late first round draft pick, they might as well keep him.
The Leafs need a top 6 forward and a prospect, or draft pick to complete the trade.
Burke is not forced to trade Kaberle, he will only trade him if the offer is there. If not too bad, Kaberle plays as a Leafs, which honnestly I wouldn't mind to see him and Phaneuf on the pp for a full year. |
Edited by - Leafs81 on 06/07/2010 15:29:40 |
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Guest5526
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Posted - 06/07/2010 : 15:33:48
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| Who cares he's a soft euro! |
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4809 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2010 : 19:15:59
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Yeah, he may be a bit of a soft euro who doesn't go into the corners . . . but he's just as soft as Campbell, and nearly half the price for a year (bound to make more afterward). And, he's probably better offensively.
And good points about Burke not being forced into any kind of trade . . . he is in a position of power, able to be choosy which of course drives up the price.
My guess is Burke doesn't consider anything less than a first rounder above 20 and a solid prospect.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2010 : 19:26:24
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quote:
Originally posted by The Duke
As i said in the other similar topic...wait and see, Burke will get a BIG return for kaberle, he will surprise many kaberle nay-sayers. Pronger may be better, but only has 3-4 years good years left, kaberle has 6-7 good years left yet. Look at what st.louis got in return for an over-the-hill Tkackuk 3 years ago, cant remember exactly, but i know it blew my mind, ( 1st time he was traded at the deadline). Kaberle is well worth a Patrick Sharpe type player. Kaberle is not a rental, he has a full year left on his contract, over the course of a year his new team will have plenty of time to re-sign him. These players have families and probably don`t like bouncing around from city to city upsetting their family life, good chance he will re-sign with his new team. I`ve read peoples comments... the flyers won`t trade Carter for Kaberle...after watching the cup finals...i wouldn`t trade kaberle for Carter, kaberle will fetch more.
HAHAHAHAHAHHA wow you`re telling me if the flyers offerd you carter for kabby straight up you would hold out for better hahahahahhHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA this is the best one i have herd in ages!!!! if you want i got some good swamp land yuou might be interested in,,, 10000 an acres a good price right!! wow ahhaa you realize carter had a broken foot 3 weeks ago right so he s probably playing on a broken foot,, wow,,,,,,, really??? hahahaha you re gonna have trouble geting a top 20 pick for a 32 year old kabby ,,,, a proven top tier player is out of the question
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1315 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2010 : 21:53:08
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@ Slozo:
I was aware of what the Ducks received from Philly, in return for Pronger. I did not question it, I believe Pasty did.
I also did not really compare Pronger to Kaberle. In fact, I don't recall ever mentioning Pronger. lol.
Anyhoo,
As I said, If I were a team seeking a puck-moving defencemen, I would consider giving Toronto the 1st Round selection they are asking.
Especially, if I were
A) Seeking that type of player
B) Had the cap room
C) In a position at a Cup run, sooner rather than later
If I were rebuilding my team, I'd not be trading away my 1st round pick for Kaberle, even if his services were needed. I'd need that 1st Pick, for the future of my club.
But indeed, a team like the Penguins could really use Kaberle as a replacement for Sergei Gonchar. He is the perfect fit, in my opinion.
And, The Penguins have a solid group of young talent. Giving away a 1st (a higher end first to boot), is something they could afford.
To me, Kaberle is worth the 1st to some teams, others he's not. Depending on the teams situation.
But in a perfect world, all things being equal, YES, to me Kaberle is worth the 1st Round pick to all teams.
I'd even consider a prospect being added, but it'd not be a high-end, sure thing guy. It'd be a prospect that runs some risk of not turning out.
Irvine/prez. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 06/07/2010 : 23:18:16
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quote:
the flyers won`t trade Carter for Kaberle...after watching the cup finals...i wouldn`t trade kaberle for Carter, kaberle will fetch more.
Dude. Seriously.
Do you mean THIS year's playoffs - in which Carter came back early from a broken foot at the end of the season, only to break his foot again in the NJ series and have surgery, only to come back AGAIN and contribute on the PP, PK and even strength? 7 points in 11 playoff games, playing on one and a half feet.
Kaberle would miss 10 games with a hangnail.
Carter is a top-tier elite forward in this league - in the top 20 forwards overall IMO, and he's only 25. Kaberle...is not even close to that stature. Burke would not only take that trade straight up, he'd be GM of the year if he got it. There is no "fetch more" than that.
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4809 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2010 : 05:29:00
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Sorry Irvine, I did confuse yourself and Pasty there in my first post.
For me, when I guess what the minimum is that Burke will want in return, I do realise that this is at the high end in terms of return . . . but again, this also depends on the pick. In any case, Burke, dealing from a position of strength, knows he can be choosy and knows that teams will bid, so he will have a high asking price . . . basically, a little more than a GM might be thinking of giving. Eventually, someone will bite.
Pittsburgh has 20th pick, so my guess a deal with them would have to have a solid prospect included.
St.Louis has 14th pick, so a decent prospect would have to be included.
Rangers have 10th pick, so maybe a long term prospect or another second rounder would be included.
Florida has third pick, so in my estimation, that might be taken straight up.
And lastly, a comment about Burke recently stating that he has been asked about Kaberle already and gotten two serious offers: I am guessing that this has been put out in the press to drum up the Kaberle sweepstakes, and may or may not have any validity to it. By this simple press release, it tells me two things for certain . . .
1) Kaberle is going to get traded this year
2) Burke is going to try his absolute hardest to get a trade done before the draft to get a pick back . . . which is why he got this out in the middle of the playoffs
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2010 : 06:12:54
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quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Sorry Irvine, I did confuse yourself and Pasty there in my first post.
For me, when I guess what the minimum is that Burke will want in return, I do realise that this is at the high end in terms of return . . . but again, this also depends on the pick. In any case, Burke, dealing from a position of strength, knows he can be choosy and knows that teams will bid, so he will have a high asking price . . . basically, a little more than a GM might be thinking of giving. Eventually, someone will bite.
Pittsburgh has 20th pick, so my guess a deal with them would have to have a solid prospect included.
St.Louis has 14th pick, so a decent prospect would have to be included.
Rangers have 10th pick, so maybe a long term prospect or another second rounder would be included.
Florida has third pick, so in my estimation, that might be taken straight up.
And lastly, a comment about Burke recently stating that he has been asked about Kaberle already and gotten two serious offers: I am guessing that this has been put out in the press to drum up the Kaberle sweepstakes, and may or may not have any validity to it. By this simple press release, it tells me two things for certain . . .
1) Kaberle is going to get traded this year
2) Burke is going to try his absolute hardest to get a trade done before the draft to get a pick back . . . which is why he got this out in the middle of the playoffs
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
see i can agree with all of this, no question but i really cant see Florida tradeing the 3 pick i mean that would just be dumb,, Florida is not makeing a cup run during Kaberle's playing career unless they find some money somewhere but this is a team on its own personal salary cap so buying a competative team is out of the question they have to build it,,,, so they have to keep their picks,, the rangers i could see A because they have the $ B. because they are a boarderline team and C. the need a kabby type player,, same with pitts minus the boarderline stuff
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4809 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2010 : 11:37:29
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They were just examples, Pasty, not saying they are realistic possibilities.
I agree with you, I don't think Florida is likely at all, just dreaming really . . . although the point could be made that they need a stud d-man after the departure of Bouwmeester. Probably the highest pick that may be a possibility is Carolina at 7th, a team that missed the postseason but one that most think isn't that far away from being a potential contender.
But who knows? Stranger things have happened . . .
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2010 : 12:21:02
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| Time will tell all....we shall see. I think kaberle is more valuable than some other people think apparently. |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2010 : 13:52:44
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quote:
Originally posted by slozo
They were just examples, Pasty, not saying they are realistic possibilities.
I agree with you, I don't think Florida is likely at all, just dreaming really . . . although the point could be made that they need a stud d-man after the departure of Bouwmeester. Probably the highest pick that may be a possibility is Carolina at 7th, a team that missed the postseason but one that most think isn't that far away from being a potential contender.
But who knows? Stranger things have happened . . .
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
See Carolina i could see is Kaberle for Carolina related to Tomas in anyway ,,, i forget his first name,,,, good shut down d man,,,, ?
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Guest2753
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Posted - 06/08/2010 : 15:09:29
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I would like Chiarelli to pull of his trinity of trades and fleece the Leafs one more time by offering the Bruins 15th overall pick and Brad Marchand for Kaberle. I know that they have been in contact recently and the pressure for the Leafs to obtain a first round pick is growing.
Kaberle on the point with Chara and\or Wideman would be spectactular and bring instant crediability to the Bruins power play. |
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Guest4032
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Posted - 06/08/2010 : 18:49:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest2753
Kaberle on the point with Chara and\or Wideman would be spectactular and bring instant crediability to the Bruins power play.
the problem with that is that he would actually have to play defence in Boston, something he hasn't done in Toronto for quite a long time now. |
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1315 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2010 : 21:58:08
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@Pasty7:
Yes, Frantusek Kaberle is Tomas Kaberle's brother. But, Frantisek now plays for HC Kladno, in the Czech Extraliga.
Irvine/prez. |
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Tomas Kaberle Trade Value 
