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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
 Posted - 07/01/2010 : 08:46:07
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Poll Question:
After acquiring Versteeg, the Leafs have at least added what looks like a guy who can score 20 goals from the wing . . . but with Kaberle sure to leave in a trade, there is another shoe yet to drop.
What position or role do you think the Leafs need to aim for next, and be specific with players that might be acquired for Kaberle.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Edited by - n/a on 07/01/2010 08:52:42
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2010 : 09:12:04
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Where is the, "The Leafs really have only 2 Legitimate Top 6 NHL Forwards so anything skill up from is what is need."
I would think a centre to complete a 1st line of Kessel - X - Versteeg would be good. Savard actually fits nice there.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2010 : 09:36:27
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I agree, a legit centerman would be a nice fit. Someone to provide for Kessel and help on the PP. Personally i don't see Bozek being ready just yet.
Savard would be nice but is somewhat risky at this point in his career. The one thing i'd argue is when someone says he's not a "Burke type" player. Let's face it, Burkie loves his crashers and bangers and power forwards, etc but he is the guy who swung the deal to land a couple of guys who for years were referred to as the "twinkies". Daniel and Henrik don't exactly scare defensemen physically but they certainly do with their skill. I think Burke is smart enough to know he can't simply fill his roster with big bodies who throw their weight around. Balance is always necessary!
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2010 : 09:46:11
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| hands down, they need a centre. Who is their current #1 centre next year? Tyler Bozak? |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2010 : 10:40:27
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Colby Armstrong anyone?? Actually, another good deal for Burke. Top 6 in TO is actually starting to round out a little bit.
Still need a #1 centre, but I like a group including Armstrong, Kessel, Versteeg, and Grabovski.
Wow, do I actually have to start moderately cheering for this team?? |
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leafsfan_101
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1530 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2010 : 10:50:11
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I definitely think that we need a big winger with skill. We definitely need a a centerman, but with Bozak, Grabovski, and Kadri, we can at least survive for a few years. And with good wingers Bozak and Kadri will grow up faster, and elevate their game.
Our top 6 wing depth is very weak, with almost no size. If we can get that good top 6 forward with size, it will go a long way in ensuring wing depth and it will allow us to score more goals. The defense and goaltending situation is set.
So a big winger. That is why you hear Burke is eyeing a big winger for Kaberle. |
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leafsfan_101
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1530 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2010 : 10:51:54
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And Beans, I think Armstrong is more of a good 3rd line player. But he will add that sandpaper that the Leafs want, and give more definition to the bottom 6.
Definitely another good signing by Burke :) I'm one happy Leafs fan today :) |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2010 : 14:18:01
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I sure hope you don't think Brian Burke is paying $3 million a season for a 3rd line sandpaper player?? C'mon. Maybe you don't see that Armstrong has 20 goal - 40+ point potential. Much like he did just last season??
Seriously, Armstrong will absolutely be on the 2nd line, maybe rotated into the 1st line from time to time. He's significantly more than a sandpaper player. As you said, the top 6 in TO is lacking size. Not saying that Armstrong is a tank, but at 6'2" and nearly 200 lbs, he's big enough.
I also have to say that Burke will have to have had a very weak rest of the summer if Kadri makes the team. He's put on little to no meat and still has a stigma of a selfish kind of player. If he's too old for juniors, I can see him in the AHL with the Marlies at least to start the season.
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Guest2210
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Posted - 07/01/2010 : 17:00:20
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| kadri will be fine beans, give the young player a break. Kadri to me @ the juniors last winter started many great first passes upon entering the opposing teams end...( a skill over-looked sometimes), i think he has GREAT VISION on the ice and speed to boot. Grit means more than weight....what was gilmour ?? 5` 11` maybe...160 lbs at the most ?? he did o-k. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 07/01/2010 : 22:44:58
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quote:
Grit means more than weight....what was gilmour ?? 5` 11` maybe...160 lbs at the most ?? he did o-k.
He did OK in an era where many players were 5'11 and 160-180 lbs. A player that size would get crushed in today's game - the players are so much bigger than they used to be.
Some players play larger than they are, and there are some tough small players (Burrows comes to mind), but I think for safety anything less than 180 at the NHL level is dangerous, you just cannot protect yourself from the 210 lbs freight train hit if it comes. |
Edited by - nuxfan on 07/01/2010 22:45:40 |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2010 : 08:50:58
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First off, Kadri in the Juniors is just that. The juniors - not the NHL. The 6'+, 200lbs+ player in juniors is not the norm, it's the exception. We'll see how well Kadri does when he goes against an NHL level defense for 82 games.
Secondly, sure there are smaller players that have been very successful, but not very many. Specifically, not very many in the past 10 years. There are a small handful of players that are less than 180 lbs that have the ability to play injury free in the NHL today. Many of them are highly skilled players but spend a reasonable amount of time on the injured reserve list based solely on size. It's not a personally opinion or slight against Kadri at all. He does have some amazing hands. However, 170 lbs going against 200+ night in and night out usually gets worn down and injured.
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Edited by - Beans15 on 07/02/2010 08:53:25 |
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Deaner
Rookie
Canada
107 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2010 : 14:20:15
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| although they do need to grab a big centre i said go for the big name winger only because i want to see them scoop up kovalchuk i think that would be killer, even if he wants too much money who cares we need a guy like him and we still have a bit of money to play around with...why not? |
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1315 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2010 : 15:48:50
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I don't think that Toronto is the place for Kovalchuk, on behalf of both parts. (personal opinion of course.)
On Toronto's behalf, Kovalchuk provides all the offense a team could want. But, none of the defense. Yes, he's not paid for that. But under Burke's system, I don't see Kovalchuk succeeding. Burke wants accountability at both ends of the ice, Kovy isn't going to provide that.
Secondly, Kovalchuk is not used to being in a big hockey market such as Toronto. Perhaps, the biggest. He's used to Atlanta. Perhaps, the smallest. I'm not so sure Kovalchuk wants to go to the major market. He seems the type of guy who likes having his personal life, seperated from the hockey world. Toronto will not provide that, more than any other market besides Montreal.
I just don't see the fit. Especially with a sniper on the other wing, in Phil Kessel. They need to address a playmaking center. First and foremost. Not two snipers, with a weak centerman.
In fact, if they must go with another Winger, he should atleast be a playmaker firstly. Burke paid a lot for Kessel. He's not adding another sniper of Kovalchuk's status and price, I don't figure. Kessel is his guy going forward. He plans to build around him up front. Adding Kovalchuk changes that plan. The team becomes around Kovalchuk.
Irvine/prez. |
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Deaner
Rookie
Canada
107 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2010 : 17:03:13
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| interesting thoughts irvine i respect your opinion but still want kovy in a leafs sweater given the low amount of decent playmaking centres available right now...or go after my boy joe thornton |
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1315 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2010 : 18:05:14
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@ Deaner:
I understand why you would, believe me. He's an offensive force.
In fact, I'd love to see him on the wing in Ottawa, centered by Jason Spezza. The two combined, I believe, would be some offensive magic. Sadly though, I just don't see it happening.
Irvine/prez. |
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro
735 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2010 : 08:48:39
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First of all I like the addition of Armstrong and Versteeg. I think they can both play top six roles, maybe Armstrong will settle into a third liner but with the team so far he fits on the second line. Armstrong has been rumoured to go to Toronto ever since Burke arrived, so it made a lot of sense to go get him.
I was a little bit disapointed to see Stalberg leave, this guy has the potential he can skate and he has the size. I'm sure he's gonna do well in Chicago playing with some skill players. But Stalberg could also turn into a Artyukhin, highly skilled but no production.
I dont think there will be much free agents signing. I looked through the list of the remaining players and there is only two top six fwds available. Kovalchuk and Frolov and I dont want any of them. Maybe Frolov if he could sign for around 3 or 4 millions for a year or two. Anyway Toronto needs a first line center and I hope they can get one via trade. But I think it would be hard has Kaberle is the only good trading bait right now. I dont want Burke to trade more prospects or draft picks. I guess Mueller, Gagné are available. And maybe Savard and Bobby Ryan are also available. If they could get one of those guys via trade that could be good.
Also I dont think Kadri should play in the NHL. Definitly AHL first and see how well he does. This guy is a highly skilled playmaking center and is exactly what we need right now. But we still have to give him time, he's not NHL ready. |
Edited by - Leafs81 on 07/03/2010 09:03:25 |
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Deaner
Rookie
Canada
107 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2010 : 10:09:32
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| that would be killer spezza and kovy...i hear the leafs offered maxim afinigenov a contract waiting on a decision |
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2010 : 10:23:45
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| Beans and nuxfan....you are absolutely right about size in the NHL, i agree. There are exceptions though to the rule. a guy hasn`t got to be 6` 2`` to be tough. Wendall clark was only 5` 11`` and now supposedly new tough guy Mike Brown is only 5` 11`` Your wrong though nuxfan about the size of players when gilmour played...i think gilmour was at his best in 1993 - 1994 , the average height in the NHL @ that time was ( i think ) 6` 2``. |
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2010 : 10:36:44
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| interesting thoughts irvine about kovalchuk...i only wish TO had him. We`ll see where he lands and the outcome may tell us something. Hard to tell wether or not a guy is just $$$$ mad until he makes a decision on where to play. I`m sure he has many offers, lets see if he takes an obovious pay cut to play in a city where he may want to be.........i think he has 2-3 teams in mind where he`d like to be, but cap issues may be a factor. I think he and burke may be playing cat & mouse over the length of a contract maybe. Toronto needs this guy for the team to be a true contender and burke knows this, he is not stupid, lotta pressure in TO to make the playoffs THIS YEAR !!! |
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Deaner
Rookie
Canada
107 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2010 : 12:30:57
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| word is that NYI has offered kovy a lengthy contract but no word on if anything is going to happen or it's even official. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2010 : 15:01:28
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quote:
Beans and nuxfan....you are absolutely right about size in the NHL, i agree. There are exceptions though to the rule. a guy hasn`t got to be 6` 2`` to be tough. Wendall clark was only 5` 11`` and now supposedly new tough guy Mike Brown is only 5` 11`` Your wrong though nuxfan about the size of players when gilmour played...i think gilmour was at his best in 1993 - 1994 , the average height in the NHL @ that time was ( i think ) 6` 2``.
Duke, agreed - I had trouble finding stats, but you are correct, Gilmour would be considered small at any point in his career. According to what little I could find, the avg height/weight in the NHL was:
1980 - 5'11/170
1995 - 6'0/200
2001 - 6'1/204
present - 6'2/210
Gilmour's official stats show him at 5'11 and 175, so small in all eras.
That being said, there are always exceptions to any rule - generally though, if you are short, you better make up for it in weight. You'll find guys that are 6'3/180, and guys that are 5'8/200, but you will find very few guys that are 5'8/180 anymore.
Talk about timing - there was an article on Canoe today in the sports section, detailing Kahdri's serious off-season weight training...he's putting in the time to add the muscle he needs, so the Leafs seem to agree that he needs more size. |
Edited by - nuxfan on 07/03/2010 15:02:01 |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2010 : 16:43:31
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I think people are really over simplifying the size challenges with Kadri.
Let's look at some of the great smaller player of yesterday and today.
There are a few out there today. The like of Gionta, St. Louis, Sullivan, Kane, etc. Most of these guys are are 5'8" or shorter.
However, most if not all of the players in the NHL are 180 or bigger. In fact, there are fewer than 40 skaters in the NHL last season who were less than 180 lbs. There are only 6 players in the entire NHL that weight less than Kadri.
Even if he put on 15 lbs of Beef, he is still in the bottom 10% of NHL players in size.
He's small and frankly has never appears very strong in any games I have watched him play. If he isn't strong against juniors, what is he going to do in the NHL?? |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2010 : 16:55:02
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If Kadri played "too small" in the junior games you watched him play in Beans . . . how did he go on that phenomenal run last pre-season against guys in the NHL and trying to get in the NHL? More than half of the line-ups were true NHLers, especially the last few games, and Kadri looked like he belonged at the time and created serious controversy because of it - he was always meant to be sent back down, but in many eyes (mine included at the time) thought he had earned some more time.
Weight and height are very general factors I'd say, but they are not everything . . . and at the level Kadri plays at, there are many big guys out there just trying to take off the head of such a player as Kadri. More goonery than the NHL, I'd say. Yet, he hasn't been injury prone to my knowledge or had concussion issues . . . so why all the controversy about his size still?
I say, wait until he plays in the league and see . . . I'd reserve judgement until then.
As for what the Leafs need, I thinks it's clear: playmaking center, or big tough skilled center, either one.
How many players like Getzlaf are on the market . . . anyone? Anyone? 
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Guest4776
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Posted - 07/03/2010 : 18:17:43
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ok beans, at the world junors imo kadri was the best player on canada other than eberle yes even better then hall, i believe kadri will be better than hall, and your talking about kadris size and weight and how that matters so much.
ever heard of marty st.louis???????????? ya before he became a star people were saying the exact same thing u r and thats how hes too small,, hmm he only had 94 points last year, not bad eh? i will bet all my marbles that kadri will have at least 2 seasons where he scores 90 or more points, if he doesnt hell ill come back on here in 20 years and say beans was right. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2010 : 00:49:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4776
ok beans, at the world junors imo kadri was the best player on canada other than eberle yes even better then hall, i believe kadri will be better than hall, and your talking about kadris size and weight and how that matters so much.
Wow, strong words! Seriously, i must have been watching a different WJC than you? 
quote:
ever heard of marty st.louis???????????? ya before he became a star people were saying the exact same thing u r and thats how hes too small,, hmm he only had 94 points last year, not bad eh?
Yup, and for every guy their size who succeeds, there're prob 50+ who don't! All Beans is trying to say when mentioning his size is that the odds are stacked against him!
quote:
i will bet all my marbles that kadri will have at least 2 seasons where he scores 90 or more points, if he doesnt hell ill come back on here in 20 years and say beans was right.
Yeah, that's great, someone's gonna wait 20 years to collect "all your marbles"...... |
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Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro
640 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2010 : 05:43:12
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Why all the argument over Kadris' size. He is 6'1" and 180 pds right now. When he gets into NHL shape he would likely hit 190 pds. Are u all saying this is a small centreman. I don't think so.
Kadri is a skilled puck handler and above average playmaker at the junior level. IMO a better player with a better attitude then the #1 overall this year, Taylor Hall. If he can put some muscle on and transfer his skill to NHL level then he will certainly be the centerman that TO needs. But who knows what will happen. |
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2010 : 13:38:21
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| True words Porkchop. Who knows how these young players will fit in ? All you can do is judge by what you see for yourself. In my personal opinion, young Kadri has great vision and the tools to be a great hockey player, hopefully he will. Do you think that maybe Zetterburg, Datsyuk, Messier, Lucky Luc...just to mention a few would have been drafted higher if SOME-ONE had seen how great they would become ?? You wouldn`t think it possible for a # 1 draftee overall to become a bust, BUT IT HAPPENS !!! No-one knows for sure where these guys will fit in, it`s just our own opinions. |
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1315 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2010 : 16:47:02
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Everyone knows and agrees on what the Leafs need to do, and that's a playmaking Center. And, Burke likely knows it too.
I'd not be surprised if Burke has a talented, playmaking Center next to Kessel by next seasons start.
After that, I think Burke is doing well. He could focus on his top 6 a little more after that, rounding/upgrading them if he can.
But this team is being built around Kessel up front. Burke spent too much on getting him, for it to not be. So, besides a quality Center coming in, I don't suspect seeing another big name added up front. (IE, Ilya Kovalchuk), but a Marc Savard type, I can see.
Irvine/prez. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2010 : 07:27:13
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I agree Irvine . . . definitely looking for a strong center who can dish off the puck. I disagree that Savard isn't a big name - he most certainly is - but if it's an A grade or B grade center really depends on what's out there, and what Burke can swing in the current market with the assets he has (namely Kaberle).
My current list of A grade centers that I can see have at least a glimmer of hope (work with me here) of getting traded to Toronto with the right deal, in order:
Thornton (SJ)
B. Richards (DAL)
[I can't include Stastny or Kopitar after each had break-out seasons last year]
Kesler (VAN) [very, very slim chance]
Mikko Koivu (MIN)
Derek Roy
Myself, I'd really covet Kesler the most - he's big enough, is very young still, and on the upswing. But that's why he isn't leaving Vancouver anytime soon in all probablity, especially with the Vancouver defence sorted out pretty much. Brad Richards is a bit too long in the tooth and probably doesn't leave either, and Roy is a bit to small I think for Burke to chase IMHO. That leaves . . . Thornton and M.Koivu.
. . . Thornton, who is the #1 guy on this list, would leave only in a blockbuster trade, and that would involve a lot more than Kaberle. It would have to include at least one other solid roster player I'd think, and maybe a couple of prospects. It's possible, but still unlikely . . . and the only drawback with Thornton is his playoff resume and his age - but he's still tops in the regular season and is a huge presence down the middle.
I really like the thought of Mikko Koivu though, and hadn't thought of him before. Kaberle and a prospect is all it would take, I think . . . but would Minny be willing to part with such a valuable player on offence, and with his superb defence as well? He is a very complete player really, who started out with a great rep on D . . . it's be a tough deal to make.
So, after all this, I have decided - we are not getting a center, I don't see the deals there. 
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2010 : 08:31:26
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tell ya what slozo just cuz we re pals and only for that reason i ll trade you guys Scott Gomez,, for anything really i mean it anything!
Pasty |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2010 : 09:15:14
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quote:
[i]Originally posted by Porkchop73[/i]
[br]Why all the argument over Kadris' size. He is 6'1" and 180 pds right now. When he gets into NHL shape he would likely hit 190 pds. Are u all saying this is a small centreman. I don't think so.
Kadri is a skilled puck handler and above average playmaker at the junior level. IMO a better player with a better attitude then the #1 overall this year, Taylor Hall. If he can put some muscle on and transfer his skill to NHL level then he will certainly be the centerman that TO needs. But who knows what will happen.
When did he gain 13 lbs??? Everywhere I can find he is listed at 167 lbs.
Even at 180, he is not undersized but still below average by 20 lbs.
And people, don't confuse what I am saying. I know he is skilled, I know he made a good shot at making the squad last year. Slozo, I agree that it will take a season or 2 to see if the size is going to be an isuse or not. All I am saying is that if I am a Leaf fan, I am not holding by breath about Kadri at all. He's still, at best, a 50-50 shot at being a decent everyday NHL player. Even less of a shot at being great.
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2010 : 09:26:40
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Hmmm . . . Gomez, eh? Maybe, if it wasn't still being paid 8 million next year, and 7.5 the next, you'd have me. Can I have him for 5 mil for 2 years while the Canadiens cover the rest? Then you'd have me. 
I'll tell you who I just spotted though, and he's a RFA - James Neal from Dallas. Young, big power forward LWer who could be a star. He is working out with Gary Roberts this summer which must mean he's around Toronto . . . but this is all if Nieuwendyk let's him leave, which is unlikely.
But the Leafs still have money, they should make a strong bid!
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2010 : 09:27:36
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quote:
[i]Originally posted by Beans15[/i]
[br]quote:
[i]Originally posted by Porkchop73[/i]
[br]Why all the argument over Kadris' size. He is 6'1" and 180 pds right now. When he gets into NHL shape he would likely hit 190 pds. Are u all saying this is a small centreman. I don't think so.
Kadri is a skilled puck handler and above average playmaker at the junior level. IMO a better player with a better attitude then the #1 overall this year, Taylor Hall. If he can put some muscle on and transfer his skill to NHL level then he will certainly be the centerman that TO needs. But who knows what will happen.
When did he gain 13 lbs??? Everywhere I can find he is listed at 167 lbs.
Even at 180, he is not undersized but still below average by 20 lbs.
And people, don't confuse what I am saying. I know he is skilled, I know he made a good shot at making the squad last year. Slozo, I agree that it will take a season or 2 to see if the size is going to be an isuse or not. All I am saying is that if I am a Leaf fan, I am not holding by breath about Kadri at all. He's still, at best, a 50-50 shot at being a decent everyday NHL player. Even less of a shot at being great.
Can i give you an example of what beans is talking About,, Benoit Pouliot a 4th over all pick and has never put on the weight and that could be a very good reason why he is not producing the way a player of his skill set could
Pasty |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2010 : 09:29:50
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quote:
[i]Originally posted by slozo[/i]
[br]Hmmm . . . Gomez, eh? Maybe, if it wasn't still being paid 8 million next year, and 7.5 the next, you'd have me. Can I have him for 5 mil for 2 years while the Canadiens cover the rest? Then you'd have me.
I'll tell you who I just spotted though, and he's a RFA - James Neal from Dallas. Young, big power forward LWer who could be a star. He is working out with Gary Roberts this summer which must mean he's around Toronto . . . but this is all if Nieuwendyk let's him leave, which is unlikely.
But the Leafs still have money, they should make a strong bid!
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Honestly we bash Gomez for his contract but if he was singed for 5 million a year he is a very versitail 2 way pivot with lots of upside, for example say he was a UFA this year he actually could be a good center for Kessel at the right price
Pasty |
Edited by - Pasty7 on 07/05/2010 09:31:16 |
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro
735 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2010 : 10:14:20
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Well I don't think the Leafs can get a first line center via trade. Except maybe Savard.
So if Savard doesn't work, I would strongly go for Bobby Ryan to play on the first line with Kessel. Well he's a RW but maybe he can be switch to LW on the powerplay and second line 5 on 5. Anyway... I'm saying this because Anaheim has stated that they offered him a 5 years 25 millions and he turned it down. And they are tired of trying to deal with him. And also they are looking for a puck moving defenseman since they lost Niedermayer to retirement. Kaberle anybody??
But I don't know if he wants more then 5 millions then it's maybe not worth it (I would still do it), or if he just wants out of Anaheim and maybe he would be ready to sign for less in another city.
I don't know how true all this is but I read this in a saturday newspaper. And I think all the trades and signing will resume tomorrow after the American long weekend. |
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1315 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2010 : 11:52:23
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I'm unsure of the Bobby Ryan situation.
However, I'm not overly confident the Leafs would be willing to pay Ryan much more than $5 Million per year at this time in his career. Ryan has proven he is a 30+ goal scorer. But, scoring 31 and 35 in his 2nd and 3rd year (his only 2 full NHL seasons).
But, has he proven to be worth more than $5M per year yet? I'm not so sure. However, Burke would know Ryan as being the former GM of Anaheim.
Perhaps Ryan does want to go to the Leafs? Maybe he is a big fan of Brian Burke, and wants to play under him again. And, in a place where he would not be shadowed by Getzlaf, Perry & Selanne.
I'm not aware of the Bobby Ryan saga developing. But, if he did turn down a contract such as that from Anaheim, then I'd not be surprised if Toronto was in his sights. A young, developing team, with a GM he's familiar with. Perhaps.
Irvine/prez. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2010 : 12:31:24
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Bobby Ryan is an RFA, not a UFA. Meaning that as long as Anaheim qualifies him, the most he could do is arbitration. If he chooses arbitration, the arbitrator rules, and if Anaheim doesn't like the ruling and declines, that is the only way he could become a UFA
So, if TO wants him, it's an offer sheet. If he said not to $5 million in Anaheim, that would mean more on an offer sheet and 3-1st round draft picks to anyone who takes him on that offer sheet.
How many more 1st round draft picks can TO sacrifice??
Bobby Ryan will not be a Leaf any time soon.
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Edited by - Beans15 on 07/05/2010 12:33:14 |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2010 : 12:58:21
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quote:
[i]Originally posted by Beans15[/i]
[br]Bobby Ryan is an RFA, not a UFA. Meaning that as long as Anaheim qualifies him, the most he could do is arbitration. If he chooses arbitration, the arbitrator rules, and if Anaheim doesn't like the ruling and declines, that is the only way he could become a UFA
So, if TO wants him, it's an offer sheet. If he said not to $5 million in Anaheim, that would mean more on an offer sheet and 3-1st round draft picks to anyone who takes him on that offer sheet.
How many more 1st round draft picks can TO sacrifice??
Bobby Ryan will not be a Leaf any time soon.
on a side note it has to be toronto's first round draft picks for example the could not trade say Kaberle to detroit for their first round pick and then give up the first rounder along with their 2011 2012 and 2012 2013 first picks in an offer sheept they would have to re aquire their first round pick from boston and then give up their 2 next first round picks,,,, (no way this happens) it just cant happen
Pasty |
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro
735 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2010 : 13:34:11
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I know he's a RFA and not a UFA. I don't think I said that the Leafs should go and just sign him. If it sounded like that it was not what I meant. I was talking about a trade that would involve Kaberle. You acquire his rights with a trade and then you sign him.
It seems like people are always ruling out a guy who's RFA to go with another team. It is very possible via trade.
Kessel was aquired with a trade and so did Halak. |
Edited by - Leafs81 on 07/05/2010 13:37:25 |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2010 : 13:41:25
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quote:
[i]Originally posted by Leafs81[/i]
[br]I know he's a RFA and not a UFA. I don't think I said that the Leafs should go and just sign him. If it sounded like that it was not what I meant. I was talking about a trade that would involve Kaberle. You acquire his rights with a trade and then you sign him.
It seems like people are always ruling out a guy who's RFA to go with another team. It is very possible via trade.
Kessel was aquired with a trade and so did Halak.
what can Toronto offer the Ducks that is even remotely close to Ryan's value, the only thing the Leafs have is Kaberle and maybe Kulimen and both together i would never take for Ryan, the leafs dont have a first or a second round pick for next year to throw in,, god forbid they throw in someone like Kadri,,,, i mean if im the Ducks it is nearly the definition of stupidity to trade ryan at this age for kaberle as his age,.... no not a shot cant see it
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2010 : 13:48:22
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Bobby Ryan is not only an RFA, but he is one of the few RFA's this year with no arbitration rights - so there is no arbitration award to worry about here, as with other RFA's.
Ryan (along with other notables James Neal and Marc Staal) are just pure RFA's - their rights are owned by their respective teams for the forseeable future, until either someone puts an offer sheet forward or they sign with their teams. Ryan will sit unsigned as the season starts until one of those situations happens.
As with any RFA offer sheet, ANA will have the right to match, and probably will do so.
Regarding his contract impasse - word is that Ryan is happy with the value but not the term - he only wants 3 years @ 5M, not the 5/25 that ANA is offering. I guess he's looking to prove he's even better than he is now and sign a more lucrative deal in 3 years time, while ANA would like to lock him up @ 5M for a longer period of time, also hoping that he is far better than he is now in 3 years time
So, with that in mind, there is very little that any team could do to knock ANA off track with Ryan. It sounds like they're happy to sign him @ 5M per year, but they just want more years than Ryan wants at that level.
- If a team comes along and offers him a 3yr/15M deal, or even 3yr/18M, ANA will almost certainly match it, as the money is not the problem.
- Teams that want to offer more than 3 years at 5M/year are going to be SOL, same as ANA is now, and the odds are good that Ryan would not accept such a sheet as it would give ANA the chance to match it (which is exactly what they want anyway)
In regards to TOR throwing that offer sheet at Ryan...not a chance, Burke literally cannot afford it. To sign Ryan @ 5M per year, the signing team would have to cough up 2 first, a second, and a third round pick. TOR does not own a first round pick next year, and to even make that offer they would need to possess one. There are other teams out there that would have a much better ability to field an offer sheet. |
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The Next Trade/Signing for the Leafers 
