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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
 Posted - 07/08/2010 : 11:50:26
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quote:
[i]Originally posted by Jumbo Joe Rocks[/i]
[br]What about this trade??
To Toronto
Burrows
2nd round pick
To Vancouver
Kaberle
GO SHARKS GO
Not enough. Not even close to enough.
Burrow was a held stick and Sedin bounce 30 goals in off of it. Look at what he did in the playoffs. (Nothing, is the answer by the way).
And a 2nd round player is at best a marginal 2nd line player or most likely a 3rd or 4th line player.
Kaberle is worth substantially more than that.
Bieksa and Burrows is more like it, and I'm not even sure that would be a trade that Burke would make.
If he moves Kaberle it's so his team gets better. TO is not a better team with Burrows in the line up. |
Edited by - Beans15 on 07/08/2010 11:54:18 |
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Tiller33
PickupHockey Pro
389 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2010 : 14:17:01
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| Burke would never trade for Ballerina Burrowes, period. And I highly doubt Vancouver needs to bring in another defenceman. |
Edited by - Tiller33 on 07/08/2010 14:18:52 |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 07/08/2010 : 19:19:10
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Kaberle to the Canucks is a tricky one. My thinking is the Canucks signed Ballard in case we didn't get Hamhuis. Had he been 100% certain Hamhuis was coming, i would like to think he'd have gone after someone like Kaberle with a little more offense. Hamhuis has some offensive potential but it's a big question mark just how good he can be on an offensive team and out of the shadows of Ryan Suter and Shea Weber.
I would have loved to see "us" get Kaberle. The suggested trade involving Burrows would be unlikely. With his cap hit so low, the Canucks would likely not part with him. If it were Bieksa, Grabner (before he was traded) and a pick, then maybe, but i don't think Burrows is the type of player the Leafs are after.
I would still love to see us get Kaberle somehow and trade a dman or two to make room but there's that "bad blood" between Vancouver and TO and i'm not sure they'll be ideal trading partners? |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2010 : 05:29:19
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I disagree with Beans on Burrows and a 2nd not being enough for Kaberle . . . I think any top 6 forward who just had a 35g, 67 pt season - no matter who he played with - if coupled with a 2nd round pick would be more than enough value.
The problem I see, and the reason it won't happen, is Burke probably doesn't want Burrows, and may think he is overvalued based on last season's stats. Or, maybe more likely, Burke wouldn't mind adding him to the roster but Vancouver no longer wants Kaberle after getting Hamhuis.
I don't see a deal here mostly because of the bad blood between Burke and Vancouver, actually. Brian would not want to put himself in the position to possibly lose to that organisation . . .
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2010 : 09:19:08
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I think its more likely that Vancouver doesn't want (or in fact, need) Kaberle anymore. At one time before July 1, Kaberle was likely on the radar for VAN, if they were not successful in signing Hamhuis. In the end, they got Ballard AND Hamhuis, and are now awash in quality dmen:
- Hamhuis
- Ballard
- Edler
- Erhoff
- Bieksa
- Salo
And that is our top 6 - we also have SOB, Alberts, and Rome on the books (although I suspect 2 of those will head back down to the Moose and SOB will be our 7th dman at least at the start of the season.
So, if you're VAN, where do you put Kaberle? Any trade with TOR would have to include Bieksa going the other way, plus at least one other body if only for salary purposes. And VAN ends up with 5 top-4 dmen, that average 4M/year in salary.
Given what Gillis did in the offseason, Vancouver no longer has a need for Kaberle as the defence stands now. The ONLY way I could see Van being interested is if they were thinking of getting rid of both Bieksa and Salo, although Salo would have to waive his NTC. Kaberle would be a significant upgrade over Salo on our PP. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2010 : 12:56:18
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quote:
[i]Originally posted by nuxfan[/i]
Given what Gillis did in the offseason, Vancouver no longer has a need for Kaberle as the defence stands now. The ONLY way I could see Van being interested is if they were thinking of getting rid of both Bieksa and Salo, although Salo would have to waive his NTC. Kaberle would be a significant upgrade over Salo on our PP.
nuxfan, THAT is what i'd love to see! I'm not a big fan of hoping Salo remains healthy and while i do think when he's healthy, he's better than a lot of people realize, i'd have no prob if we had ot ship him out for someone we need! Kaberle would be a nice upgrade for sure! This is where the NTC's can hurt you! |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2010 : 15:30:42
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Agreed nuxfan. Vancouver is solid on D, and doesn't have to ue Alberts until Salo goes down to an injury in the first week.
I kid, I kid.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2010 : 16:09:34
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quote:
Agreed nuxfan. Vancouver is solid on D, and doesn't have to ue Alberts until Salo goes down to an injury in the first week.
I kid, I kid.
First week? I can't rule out an injury in training camp! It'll be something like a reporter mike hitting him in the head for a concussion, or tripping over the curb and breaking his ankle...
Salo is snakebit. |
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Guest0905
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Posted - 07/09/2010 : 23:55:28
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Now that anaheim has traded away another nhl defencemen Eminger for a winger in Voros they need a guy like kaberle who can qb the powerplay with Visnovsky and also play on the top pairing. Anaheim now only has 4 nhl defensemen, with Wisniewski being a rfa. The Leafs and Anaheim should get together and make a trade something like this:
To the Leafs
Bobby Ryan
To Anaheim
Tomas Kaberle, Juraj Mikus and Torontos 2nd round pick in 2012
Good and even trade for both teams. Anaheim have offered 5x$5.25 m and Bobby Ryan turned it down, looks like he doesn't want to playin Anaheim. So Anaheim adds a top pairing defencemen who can qb the pp and move the puck out of the zone quickly and efficiently and Mikus who is also almost ready for nhl duty + a pick. Not to mention they dump some salary as Ryan has already turned down $5.25 m over 5 years. Toronto gets there 1st line forward and round out there top 6 forwards.
What do u guys think? |
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2010 : 09:53:06
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| Good deal for the leafs if it happens....San Jose has been pretty quiet in player movement thus far, i was expecting a lot of shuffling from them. I wonder if there is any chance of Burke prying Joe Thorthon out of San Jose ?? May be a great move for every1 involved if the right package was offered. |
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1315 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2010 : 13:37:45
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The Anaheim Ducks are not trading away Bobby Ryan. Nor are they not matching an offer (if a team does offer one to Ryan).
Bobby Ryan is a very valuable player in the NHL, and to Anaheim. He is just 23 years of age, and has 2 30+ goal seasons, in his only 2 seasons of more than 60 games played.
Bobby Ryan has some size, too. His size a long with his finesse, is something all teams covet in the NHL. Anaheim are not losing this guy.
The only way they trade him, too, is if a deal comes in that overpays for him. And, Anaheim feel they have no choice but to take the deal.
B. Ryan is valuable. And, I'm guessing very expensive to acquire.
Irvine/prez. |
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Tiller33
PickupHockey Pro
389 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2010 : 08:24:47
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Couldn't agree more Irvine. As much as I would love for Burke to land Bobby Ryan anaheim would be down right foolish to let him go.
Let's not forget Ryan is a former 2nd overall pick drafted right after another pretty good player, Sidney Crosby. He has shown that could potentially be a Franchise player for Anaheim along with Perry and Getzlaf. Locking up Ryan assures them of 35-40 goals a year out of a guy that is 6' 2" 210lbs. Those kind of guys don't come around too often.
As for San Jose I wouldn't be surprised to see them get in on the Kaberle dealings if Chicago matches the offer sheet tendered to Hjalmersson. That being said I don't see how, monetarily speaking, the Blackhawks can afford to match.
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Jumbo Joe Rocks
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
410 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2010 : 15:02:54
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Maybe in 1-2 weeks DW and Burke will announce Kaberle has been traded to SJ for Clowe,or Setoguchi I guarentee it.If Hjalmarsson was matched Kaberle would go to SJ.
GO SHARKS GO |
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Tiller33
PickupHockey Pro
389 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2010 : 15:09:44
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Do it up!
I'd take either guy in a heartbeat. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2010 : 15:18:10
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| I still think Bieksa has a chance of ending up in SJ...instead of Kaberle. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2010 : 06:57:16
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Ok, here is where I stand now on my "most likely to happen" trades for Kaberle (please note that other picks, prospects could be included in any of these trades, but only the major players are mentioned):
Kaberle to San Jose for Setoguchi or Clowe
The more I think about it, the more likely this seems . . . and although I wrote twenty minutes ago that it might not make sense for Kabs to go to a team with Boyle on it, with Blake gone, it really does make sense as it would be a better replacement (considering Blake was old). My guess is Setoguchi would be the most likely to leave. And no, I can't see Pavelski leaving.
Likelihood: quite possible, actually. Kaberle is a perfect replacement for Blake, maybe even an upgrade. They lose an auxiliary offense guy, but they can surely afford it with their firepower.
Kaberle to Philly for Gagne or Briere
As stated in another thread, Philly looks like they are going to move a guy, and by far the most likely to leave is Gagne. Before this happens though, it gets complicated, as Gagne has to waive his NTC, and if he doesn't want to, there may be some other pressures applied by the club. However, as we have seen in the past, a NTC is not so hard to get around, and I think Gagne would approve of Toronto from looking at his situation. Briere, I think, is staying after the playoffs he had . . . but if he was going, it'd take at least a very solid prospect as well as Kaberle.
Likelihood: not very likely. Philly has too many d-men already, how many more can they ice?
Kaberle to LA for Simmonds and a significant pick/prospect
This was talked about, and could be on hold until LA finally gets Kovalchuk, which would make the line-up a little heavy on the LW side for LA. The Leafs can dream about Dustin Brown all they want, but that's not happening, so it looks like Simmonds might be the one to go. Would have to be packaged with a first rounder, or a good prospect not too far away from being NHL ready - someone in the "Burke mold" (big tough center or winger with skill)
Likelihood: hard to say, but I think not too likely. Reason being, I think Burke will hold out for more, and that he'll get it with another team who desperately wants Kaberle to put them over the edge. Plus, how much does LA really need him?
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2010 : 07:48:55
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Surprisingly, I was listening to some ESPN radio this past week and they were talking like a Simmons for Kaberle deal was grossly in favor of the Leafs. I don't see it personally, but who knows.
Honestly, I can see Kaberle going to someone completely off the charts. There has been far too much discussion regarding only a few teams and in the past this means the deal is so well hidden that no one has a clue what is going to happen.
I am going way off the board and I am saying FLA will send Reinprect and Stillman for Kaberle and an average prospect. |
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deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2010 : 08:59:12
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Hey Beans - remember it was I who mentioned that a team like Florida might be very interested in Kaberle (after the departure of Bouwmeester) . . . it would be a big name to add to their roster, and who knows if the reuniting of Kaberle and McCabe might return both to past heights of production when they were playing for the Leafs.
However, I don't at all see either of the players you mention being accepted by Burke . . . too old and not good enough (Reinprecht), and too old (Stillman).
Weiss would be nice, but the offence is already thin enough for Florida . . . although they could get another player with Kaberle (prospect) that might make it tempting - say, throw in Bozak too and Florida at least has another player that should make the starting line-up.
A guy like Weiss would be perfect for Toronto, but it would remove yet another top 6 forward for Florida, and their best centreman . . . so I really don't see a deal there.
Here's hoping a Florida fire-sale happens, though! 
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2010 : 09:29:36
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I remember someone (Slozo?) mentioning FLA before and it does make some sense. I believe NJ has been discussed as well and they could def use an offensive minded dman in their mix. Another team i was thinking which could use a guy like Kaberle would be Dallas. Not sure of their cap space and such but i know there was talk about Ribiero being shipped out, although not exactly a big body that Burke seems to covet and did i not hear something about James Neal being available?
Another team which wouldn't surprise me only because they never seem to have to rebuild, would be Detroit! I never count them out when there's a solid player available! |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2010 : 09:45:19
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Florida seems unlikely to me, they said guys like weiss Hornton and others were on the block but for youth and picks they want to go young and thats what they did having like 6 picks i think in the 2 first rounds,, Kaberle may not want to resign in Florida and lets face it Florida is not gonna win next year,, infact they will probably contend for the first overall pick (which i think is the game plan) so why would they trade anything for Kabby i certainly wouldn't with or whithout this is a last place team or darn close,, if i'm tradeing away my roster players this year i want picks and prospects to build with not a 32 year old d man that could be gone before i can make anything from this team,,, just what i think Florida should do
Pasty |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2010 : 09:47:25
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not to mention they already added Wideman in the Horton trade,,, Tallon is going the way of the Blackhawks caps and pens,,, with the Panthers,, Kaberle should not intrest him in the least,,,
Pasty |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2010 : 09:49:25
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quote:
Kaberle to San Jose for Setoguchi or Clowe
I still don't see this happening.
a) I don't think SJ needs another Boyle-style dman. They needed a Hjalmarsson-style dman. Kaberle and Hjalmarsson are not the same type of dman
b) Kaberle for Setoguchi or Clowe is heavily weighted in favour of TOR
quote:
Kaberle to Philly for Gagne or Briere
I don't see this happening, mainly for salary issues. PHI needs to dump salary big time, and cannot afford to take on another dman at 4.25/year. For Gagne it doesn't make sense. For Briere it makes slightly more sense, but still not enough salary moving.
Also, PHI has a very capable looking defense. Timonen, Pronger, Meszaros, Carle as a top 4 - where does Kaberle fit in that group?
PHI is going to move one of those players, but for prospects or <2M in salary coming the other way.
quote:
Kaberle to LA for Simmonds and a significant pick/prospect
Now this, I could see, except I think you have the prospect going the wrong way . Leafs fans continue to undervalue Simmonds, but the guy is awesome, and will be a solid player for the next 10+ years. For the same reasons you would not trade Kabby to FLA for Stillman/Rienprecht, this trade will not happen. Kabby is too old for this to make sense to LA.
Also, LA has a pretty good defense themselves. Also, LA needs forwards - so to trade away a very promising young forward for a dman makes little sense.
Perhaps before suggesting all these dream trades, you should have a look at teams that actually need a Kaberle sort of dman as potential targets:
- NYR could use him, and have a ton of forwards they could send the other way
- DET could use him...next year.
- BUF, CBJ, DAL could all really use him.
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro
735 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2010 : 10:31:25
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I think the teams that needs a puck moving defenseman would be New Jersey, Buffalo, Dallas, Boston (to set up Chara), Anaheim, Columbus, Colorado.
Pittsburgh could be looking to replace Gonchar, but they already signed Martin and Michalek, and they are probably looking for wingers.
I'm guessing a trade with NJ or Boston is most likely.
I don't know why people mentionned Detroit, with Rafalski, Lidstrom and Kronwall. Sure Lidstrom will probably retire soon but they will probably look at it when they get there. They will probably replace him with a UFA next year or with a guy they drafted in the 7th round that nobody heard of. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2010 : 10:34:42
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I think people are really missing the boat on something here.
Kaberle's one remaining year means his value is not nearly as high as a player signed long term.
This means that any player(s) for Kaberle will have to compensate for the potential that Kaberle doesn't resign with the team he is trade to.
You will not get young, entry level contract players or guys under long term contract for Kaberle. It just doesn't happen in the NHL anymore.
I think Leaf fans need to come to appreciate the value for Kaberle today is significantly less than one year ago. Weiss is 5 years younger and under contract for 3 years. Any trade involving him will require more than Kaberle.
However, I believe the point is moot. I forgot that Wideman is there as well as McCabe. There is no room nor need for Kaberle in that group. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2010 : 11:08:20
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. . . and count me in too as one of the guys who forgot Wideman was now in Florida. Nope, Kaberle isn't going there for sure, for all of the reasons we have mentioned.
And as much as Beans thinks that Leafs fans are overvaluing Kaberle because of his one year remaining . . . I think a lot of you are overvaluing second line, albeit young forwards, who are in the 60 point range.
Then again, maybe not. 
About Simmonds - I think he is overvalued, but we'll see.
Colorado . . . now there is a team that has youth galore to part with, and really would benefit greatly from a Kaberle. Right now, the best offence they have coming from the back end is Liles . . . and they have a lot of what the Leafs need - young prospects! (btw - who here knew that Chris Stewart was the leading goal scorer and #2 point getter for this team last year, 28g, 36a, 64 pts ?!?)
Would love to see what O'Reilly could do in a Leafs sweater.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2010 : 12:01:20
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Slozo, great point with Colorado, i just wonder if they might not simply be patient with their youngsters and let them develop. Had they done what most expected last season and finished near the bottom, the expectations prob wouldn't be as high as they may be now? Their fans are gonna expect nothing short of the playoffs next season after the success they found this year!
I'm not familiar with their prospects so i don't know if they have an offensive minded dman coming up that could become a Kaberle kind of player?
Maybe they feel that with a guy like him, if they locked him up for 4 years, that they have a legitimate run at a cup by then? Chicago got their cup a couple years before many thought they would! |
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro
735 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2010 : 12:20:14
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quote:
[i]Originally posted by Beans15[/i]
[br]I think people are really missing the boat on something here.
Kaberle's one remaining year means his value is not nearly as high as a player signed long term.
This means that any player(s) for Kaberle will have to compensate for the potential that Kaberle doesn't resign with the team he is trade to.
You will not get young, entry level contract players or guys under long term contract for Kaberle. It just doesn't happen in the NHL anymore.
I think Leaf fans need to come to appreciate the value for Kaberle today is significantly less than one year ago. Weiss is 5 years younger and under contract for 3 years. Any trade involving him will require more than Kaberle.
However, I believe the point is moot. I forgot that Wideman is there as well as McCabe. There is no room nor need for Kaberle in that group.
I would argue that some teams might want just that, a one year deal, so they wont be stuck with a long term contract. You try for a year if the player does well, no injuries, brings success to the team then they will have first hand on signing him back. If he doesn't fit for a reason or another then you're not stuck with him until he retires.
Teams paid a lot for rentals in the past so I don't know why teams wouldn't pay a lot for a one year contract for a player that lots of teams needs. Especially a guy like Kaberle when there's not 30 players of his caliber at what he does and when every team needs one to be successful.
Just my opinion but honnestly I don't think his value went down. A one year deal is good for many teams, especially the contending teams.
But you're right in order to get a young promising player like Weiss, Sharp, Setoguchi, Zajac, B.Ryan you need to give more then Kaberle. We realize that to get a player of that caliber you need to give prospects (Kadri, Aullie, Rynnas), other young proven players (Schenn, Bozak, Kulemin) or draft picks.
Like Slozo said we only put out names and random rumors, when we do we only name the big players involved and we realize more is to be given. |
Edited by - Leafs81 on 07/13/2010 12:29:16 |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2010 : 12:26:17
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quote:
I think people are really missing the boat on something here.
Kaberle's one remaining year means his value is not nearly as high as a player signed long term.
This means that any player(s) for Kaberle will have to compensate for the potential that Kaberle doesn't resign with the team he is trade to.
You will not get young, entry level contract players or guys under long term contract for Kaberle. It just doesn't happen in the NHL anymore.
I think Leaf fans need to come to appreciate the value for Kaberle today is significantly less than one year ago. Weiss is 5 years younger and under contract for 3 years. Any trade involving him will require more than Kaberle.
Not everyone Beans - just the majority of the TOR fans. I have been preaching that fact for quite some time on this board, only to have it swept aside as something GM's won't give a second thought.
No team is going to give up a top-6 forward with a good solid long-term contract that is favourable, or a very promising young prospect for a (albeit good) dman with one year remaining on his deal. Unless they can extend that deal past next year.
quote:
btw - who here knew that Chris Stewart was the leading goal scorer and #2 point getter for this team last year, 28g, 36a, 64 pts
Slozo - everyone in the west knew that, we play against Stewart 7 times a year and see how great he is - Bobby Ryan-esque. Your underestimation of Simmonds makes more sense now, I'm guessing you just don't see these players play very often.
The group of Stastny/Duschene/Stewart/Mueller/Galiardi is going to be a powerhouse in 2-3 years time. Throw good players like O'Reilly and some vet presence with Hejduk, and COL is going to look like 09/10 CHI very soon.
My guess is that TOR would have zero chance of getting Stewart period, even with an extension in place for past next year. However, COL would be a good destination for Kaberle in exchange for Galiardi or O'Reilly, with some others mixed in on both sides.
Alex - I also don't know about COL defensive situation. Last year was an off-year for Liles, question is will he rebound? He missed 20 games last year with injury, but still put up 31 pts, most of them QB'ing the PP. I think they also have high hopes for Kyle Quincy |
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1315 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2010 : 14:36:08
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The only thing with Colorado and being a powerhouse in 2-3 years time, is that they have been signing their RFA/UFA's to 1-2 year contracts.
As have, many other teams. And I suspect we are seeing a lot of 1-2 year contracts, due to everything surrounding the upcoming CBA and who will, supposedly, be running the NHLPA's union.
The guy who has cause numerous work stoppages in MLB. A guy who is not afraid to stop work, to get what he wants for the players.
And with that, I suspect the NHL and teams will be doing what they can, to cut salaries back down. While he, will be doing the opposite.
So, the NHL and its teams I am suspecting, are signing more short team, 1 year deals, to hope and get players cheaper after the new, upcoming CBA.
Colorado is no exception. They have been signing their young talents to short term deals. Which, may hurt them after the new CBA. In a number of ways.
Either by
A) they take offers from other teams
or
B) It costs them more, as salaries may rise. And, caps may rise substatially. All depends on negotiations.
Hopefully though, whatever way things go, we do not see another work stoppage in the NHL. As, I for one, and I am sure many other fans, am not willing to tolerate it again.
Irvine/prez. |
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Tiller33
PickupHockey Pro
389 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2010 : 16:09:10
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The problem with Colorado as I see it is that they are one of the more Cash strapped teams in the West. They're situation is not quite as dire as Dallas or Pheonix. Only Pheonix had worse attendance level than Colorado last year in the Western Conference. Their abundance of young talent and the stellar play of Craig Anderson last year got them a playoff birth, so I think if ownership can get away without adding any additional salary to the team they won't.
The other side of the argument of course would be that you add a vet like Kaberle for leadership etc. And that his skill set helps you go deeper in the playoffs bringing in more revenue.
Either way I don't see Kaberle in the cards in Colorado because as someone mentioned earlier he is more likely to sign an extension for an Eastern team. San Jose would I think be his one Western exception because of their ability to win right now (playoff choking aside).
All I do know is as a Leaf fan I hope it gets done sooner than later. |
Edited by - Tiller33 on 07/13/2010 16:11:12 |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2010 : 05:15:23
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Well, we should know from experience that it's not the team that needs the player most that will seek him out . . . it's the GM who likes the player most who will get him. And sometimes, it makes for a head scratcher of a deal for us, but that's how it rolls . . .
Which is why Colorado won't be getting Kaberle, correct.
nuxfan - ok hotshot, so supposedly you (don't speak for everyone else, thanks) knew all about this Stewart kid, good for you . . . my bad for stating on a website that I might not be all-knowing, someone had to jump right on that. I'll dissect your team suggestions of who you think we should be talking about in terms of a potential Kaberle deal:
"- NYR could use him, and have a ton of forwards they could send the other way"
Gaborik scored over 40 goals, then the Rangers had two 20 goal scorers in Prospal and Dubinsky (that was their top line, btw, maybe you didn't know since you don't see the east very much) . . . and then you have a bunch under 40 point gems in the line-up. If Gaborik gets injured, this is the lowest scoring line-up in the league easily . . . what forwards do they have to give, anyone that Burke would want? Unless he is looking for more third and fourth liners, I don't think so! Ton of forwards indeed!
"- DET could use him...next year."
Thanks, this doesn't help - it's this summer we are talking about.
"- BUF, CBJ, DAL could all really use him."
At least here, there are possibilities . . . Buffalo though wouldn't do a deal with Toronto IMHO, not for a Kaberle anyways, and Dallas is a possible if it's Neal (oops, he is an RFA, just needs an offer sheet) or maybe Ribeiro? Can't see it. Oh, but then there's the Bluejackets . . . maybe a Huselius is available? Or are the Jackets ready to give up on Brassard after a disappointing season from him?
Out of those three teams, I could see Brassard coming to Toronto for Kaberle (with additions on both sides) . . . but I don't think Columbus would be ready to part with him yet.
We'll see who is more correct in the end, but I think your suggestions are almost entirely invalid.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2010 : 10:17:58
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quote:
We'll see who is more correct in the end, but I think your suggestions are almost entirely invalid.
NYR - Yes, I do know who the Rangers top line was last year (I participate in a lot of "active management" hockey pools). I was thinking along the lines of Dubinsky or Callahan, maybe throw in a draft pick as well for Kaberle. Both Dubinsky and Callahan are young (mid-20's), on their second years in the league each, upside, etc. A first round pick would be tantalizing as well for Burke, if you think NYR won't make the playoffs again.
Out of all the teams I mentioned, I think NYR could use Kaberle - they have a young inexperienced defense (except for Redden who will surely be gone this year), and could use both the scoring and mentoring that Kaberle would bring.
As for DET, I put them in there because I'm beginning to wonder if Burke is going to talk himself out of every deal presented to him this summer for Kaberle, and he'll once again be with TOR in October.
DAL, CBJ, BUF - all are in need of a Kaberle-type dman. There are a pile of trade possibilities from any of those teams to fill the C needs that TOR has (Neal is not a C, but I think Burke would take him, he's gonna be awesome). DAL has been talking about moving Ribeiro all summer, they don't have room for him and Richards. BUF needs puck moving dmen big time, and they have C's to pass back. Brassard, perhaps, although I agree CBJ don't really have another C after him.
quote:
Well, we should know from experience that it's not the team that needs the player most that will seek him out . . . it's the GM who likes the player most who will get him. And sometimes, it makes for a head scratcher of a deal for us, but that's how it rolls . . .
I'm not really sure how that works, a team that is going to pick up Kaberle and trade a bunch of future away for him most certainly feels that they need him, otherwise why would they do it?
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Tiller33
PickupHockey Pro
389 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2010 : 14:57:50
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We all know how fickle rumours are when it come to NHl players, even more so when it comes to a Leaf player.
Just thought I'd put a small list of players together that at one time or another this offseason have been linked to Toronto in Tomas Kaberle rumours:
James Neal
Bobby Ryan
Devin Setoguchi
Ryan Clowe
Brandon Dubinsky
Marc Savard
Derek Roy
Tomas Fleischman
New Jersey and Colorado have also been rumoured but I havent heard specific names from either team.
Anybody see any real deals being done with any of the teams/players listed above?
Also any names I've missed?
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2010 : 15:09:15
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quote:
Anybody see any real deals being done with any of the teams/players listed above?
Also any names I've missed?
I think Kaberle has been linked to more people than Tiger Woods this summer 
Of all the ones you mention, I still think that Dubinsky (or a trade with NYR) is the most likely. I would have said BUF, but Slozo seems to think that TOR and BUF hate each other so much they can't deal, and if its the case then so be it - I personally like a Kaberle for Roy deal for both sides.
James Neal, Bobby Ryan, Savard are all way lopsided in favour of the Leafs. SJ, I'm not sure. CBJ could be a good place to land as well. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2010 : 15:09:49
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| honestly, the Kaberle saga is getting almost as bad as Kovy...I wish Burke would just trade him if he's going to do it. |
Edited by - nuxfan on 07/15/2010 15:10:06 |
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Tiller33
PickupHockey Pro
389 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2010 : 17:44:56
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quote:
[i]Originally posted by nuxfan[/i]
[br][
I think Kaberle has been linked to more people than Tiger Woods this summer
Ha Ha Ha best quote i've heard this offseason.
I couldn't agree more I wish Burke would move him, and I don't necessarily buy this whole Kovalchuck Logjam theory. If there are moves available to improve your team make them, period.
I fear the longer Burke waits the less the return will be, but only time will tell there.
As for James Neal what bothered me was the rumor I heard was Nieuwendyk offered Neal for Kaberle straight up because ownership wasn't on board to extend him due to their impending Bankruptcy. Argument i guess being after this year Kaberle is a UFA and could move him at the dealine if need be. If that is the case and Burke didn't make the deal then that's really overvaluing Kaberle. |
Edited by - Tiller33 on 07/15/2010 17:48:19 |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2010 : 20:19:31
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Nuxfan - I totally agree, for Roy, would be very good and equal for both sides. Kaberle has the added bonus of being an excellent teacher to young Myers, and he is exactly what they've been lacking last year or two. Roy is a guy I would love on Toronto.
But I absolutely cannot see Buffalo doing it . . . I can see Burke saying yes, but not from the Buffalo side. And if you look at the past history of trades between these clubs, it's pretty thin . . . they are, after all, our closest rivals in terms of distance.
Neal is the guy I really covet, but it would have to involve something good besides as you say. Kadri might be too much, but Kulemin would be about right - that would make me wince, but also get me excited about Neal.
Kaberle and Kulemin for Neal. We have a deal?
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2010 : 21:42:14
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quote:
Kaberle and Kulemin for Neal. We have a deal?
James Neal is The Real Thing guys - a 22 year old LW, 6'3/205, had 55 points in his second full season with DAL last year including 28 goals. Plays very hard, not afraid to drop the gloves when he needs to
I see Neal in the same light as Bobby Ryan or Chris Stewart - the perfect blend of power, skill, and ability to bury the puck, and at a young age too. The kind of player that you might draft once every 15 years if you're lucky. The last one the Canucks drafted was Cam Neely...
I cannot see how DAL is going to give him up, period. Just. Can't. See it. |
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Tiller33
PickupHockey Pro
389 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2010 : 14:43:06
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quote:
[i]Originally posted by slozo[/i]
Neal is the guy I really covet, but it would have to involve something good besides as you say. Kadri might be too much, but Kulemin would be about right - that would make me wince, but also get me excited about Neal.
Kaberle and Kulemin for Neal. We have a deal?
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
I'm big on Neal too and I'd love to have him in Blue and white but I'd rather package Grabo with Kaberle if need be. Right now Dallas has four centres under contract Brad Richards, Mike Ribero, Toby Peterson and Tom Wandell. Where as they have 5 Left Wingers under contract.
For arguments sake:
TOR:
LW James Neal
DAL:
D Tomas Kaberle
C Mikhail Grabovski
Grabovski is an improvement over Toby Peterson and Tom Wandell. Dallas fills their last forward spot and add a top defenceman in Kaberle.
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Tiller33
PickupHockey Pro
389 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2010 : 10:38:47
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| The New Jersey Devils keep coming up on all the rumor sites as trading parters in the Kaberle sweepstakes. Aside from the obvious pipedreams of Zach Parise and Travis Zajac I can't see who Burke would be targeting. Don't get me wrong New Jersey has alot of talent but I just don't see what they have that would address Toronto's team needs. My best guess still remains a Kaberle+ deal for Zajac. But at the end of the day I don't see a deal with New Jersey in the cards. |
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Tomas Kaberle - Bargaining Chip 
