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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
 Posted - 08/20/2010 : 09:12:47
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Interesting article indeed. I'd have to say at this point, that this changes things for me, and I have to think that the rumour of a rift between Wilson and Kaberle is real, which I didn't think before.
Well, we all know by now that a "no-trade clause" doesn't mean that much, and we had heard earlier about a list of about ten teams - that was before the trade deadline. So, perhaps that will be the direction they head towards.
Can anyone say . . . Detroit? Pittsburgh? I am guessing that both these teams would satisfy Kaberle, although Detroit's travel schedule is a minus.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2010 : 10:22:48
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Yes, Pittsburgh. I think that in the first 15-20 games they are going to realize how much Gonchar impacted that team, specifically on the PP. If Pitt tanks early, I would not be surprised to see them pitch hard for Kaberle.
Detroit I don't see. Maybe with Lidstrom possibly leaving next season. But with Rafalski and Kronwall able to fill those shoe at least a little....... |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2010 : 11:47:23
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I would agree, now is not the perfect time for DET to get Kaberle, they don't need him in 2010/11, but would probably go for him in time for 11/12
Lidstrom will almost certainly retire after this year, however Rafalski will be UFA and 38 the year after that. Getting Kaberle signed to a 4-5 year deal would be a good hedge in case they lose them both.
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro
735 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2010 : 12:23:44
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| or Burke could just fire Ron Wilson ;) |
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Deaner
Rookie
Canada
107 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2010 : 18:29:45
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| my prediction....kabby plays with leafs all next season we will all start talking about trades again by deadline day but nothing will happen...he wont re-sign and we will get nothing for him. he will go to the bruins or somewhere toronto hates and he will sign for 5.5 a year. i say burke should have traded him and taken the best offer he got....its a damn shame we have let our last two longest lasting leafs (Sundin, Kabby) get away for nothing, other than the years of good service that is.. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2010 : 22:48:16
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quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
I would agree, now is not the perfect time for DET to get Kaberle, they don't need him in 2010/11, but would probably go for him in time for 11/12
Lidstrom will almost certainly retire after this year, however Rafalski will be UFA and 38 the year after that. Getting Kaberle signed to a 4-5 year deal would be a good hedge in case they lose them both.
nuxfan, if they want him for 11/12 and going forward, they'd almost certainly have to get him now to be sure? He may get traded and play out his contract to hit FA but what if the team who trades for him, gets him signed long term? I know there's prob others available in the same mold as Kaberle next year (and that may be why they pass on him) but if he's their target, surely they have to go after him now don't you think? |
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2010 : 15:24:52
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| Guess kaberles dad is pissed...can`t blame him i suppose seeing his son dangling like this every year, burke should have moved him for the best offer he had ( if it was reasonable ). I`d say his days in TO are numbered now for sure, how is he going to feel walking into the dressing room facing Ron the jerk Wilson. Yes, i can`t stand Ron Wilson and his personality, i think he is an arrogant bast...d. The only thing i do like about him is that it seems like his players do work hard. I guess the knocks i mentioned earlier against kaberle, ( lack of physical play ) are maybe playing a part in all of this between kab & wilson. Seems like wilson is riding him to get more physical and kaberle wants no part of that style of play.....too bad. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2010 : 18:20:51
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quote:
nuxfan, if they want him for 11/12 and going forward, they'd almost certainly have to get him now to be sure? He may get traded and play out his contract to hit FA but what if the team who trades for him, gets him signed long term? I know there's prob others available in the same mold as Kaberle next year (and that may be why they pass on him) but if he's their target, surely they have to go after him now don't you think?
You would think. But looking at their squad, they look pretty set for the upcoming year - everyone is signed, they look well balanced, 13 forwards and 8 dmen. I'm not sure what they would be forced to give up to get Kaberle at this moment - they would have to shed the equivalent of Kaberle's salary going the other way because they're right up against the cap, and mess up what otherwise looks like a very good team already. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2010 : 18:23:46
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| Honestly Duke, this fiasco is all Burke's fault. He's been letting this "we may trade Kaberle" thing drag on for 2 years now, its ludicrous to treat one of your best players this way in the public eye. If you're gonna trade him, then just do it and be done -he's had 2 summers to "get fair value", and now it looks like he may lose him this summer for next to nothing. |
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2010 : 09:17:52
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| yes nuxfan, you are right. i don`t know what burke is at with this poor guy, just trade him and let him move on with his life. |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2010 : 15:48:05
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this may sound weird,,,, but say the Leafs are looking deal Kabby at the deadline,,(obviously this is only if the buds are not gonna make the playoffs) if say by chance the habs are not gonna make the playoffs this could seriously hurt the Leafs because if the habs by the deadline are not a playoff team that could put Markov on the market and deffinetly puts Hammirlik on the market,, and even could put Gill on the market,,,,, obviously only Markov of these three is a better d man than kabby,, but if Markov is available i could see kabbies value dropping depending on how many team are looking for a point producing d man, ,,, obviously they would go after markov first and may even go after Gill or Hammirlik before depending on the teams needs or how much the team is willing to give up to pad their d for a the playoffs
Pasty |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2010 : 19:59:33
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If Kaberle is not interested in resigning, he will be dealt well before the trade deadline. If Burke is going to get any value for him, it will not be at the deadline. 20ish games in there will be a team or two that is not performing as they should or there will be an injury and a deal will be made.
Rarely if ever has a team picked a player over a coach. When that has happened, it was for players that were tops in the league. No one is going to pick Kaberle over their coach. Secondly, as arrogant and mouthy as Ron Wilson is, the guy can flat out coach. I think in many respects, the Leafs would have been worse than Edmonton last season. Wilson also held their head up the year before too. He made it to the Cup final with Washington, the Conference finals with San Jose, won the 96 World Cup and won a Silver in Vancouver. The guy is not the issue in TO. Not at all.
Dislike him for his mouth and his arrogance, but give the respect where it is due. |
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Guest4271
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Posted - 08/22/2010 : 22:22:07
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| Personally, I think Wilson is the problem, just look at Toskala, got out of San Jose to get rid of Wilson, then they end up together again. And we know how that turned out, can't blame the goalie when the Maple Buds have not had a defense in 20 years, lmao |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2010 : 08:07:18
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Not sure if I would give Wilson that much respect, Beans . . . especially when basing my opinion on performance. Specifically, I point to the defence last year, that even without Komisarek most of the year was supposed to be much, much better with a new coach and a great system. And where was the pp that was supposed to improve with Wilson? No matter the lack of talent or key injuries, bottom line, Wilson failed horribly at the two things he was supposed to be really good at fixing - defence, and the power play . . . in fact, it happened to be the two biggest sorespots (besides goaltending) for the Leafs.
No, I have to say Wilson so far is a big disappointment for me, so no, I certainly do not have to give him any respect - he hasn't earned one iota of it from me.
We do agree on one thing though, Beans - I think he will be dealt before Christmas, for all the reasons you outline.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2010 : 09:16:05
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Well, to each their own. It's pretty hard to argue that the Leafs are among the worst in the NHL for the past 2 seasons in both Goals Against and PP%. That being said, it is also pretty hard to argue the players are as big a part if not a bigger part than the coach. I mean, can someone expect a team to be able to be effective on the PP with literally 2 players (Kessel and Kaberle)?? As much as the defensemen are responsible for their piece of the pie, the Leafs really don't have a single defensive stalward in their top 12 forwards either.
Not like I am defending the guy to the end of the earth, but if you looked at the team in Washington he took to the finals as the team in SJ he took to the West finals, neither were complete jugernauts.
I guy needs a few tools to make the system work. As I said, I think TO is the worst team in the NHL by a lot in the past 2 seasons without Wilson. Although it's virtually impossible to prove.
As I said, to either their own. I will tell you, after having Quinn in Edmonton for just one season, I would take Wilson over him every time. He did nothing but look angry on the bench after a goal and give a few comments to the media. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2010 : 09:38:24
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Well, although we are going off-topic here from Kaberle's worth, it is funny that you mention Quinn, one of the more successful Leaf coaches in the past 20 years. Sometimes, it is right place, right time, and the right players for your system/method of coaching.
Maybe Wilson shouldn't be coaching a young team with a fragile mental make-up in a media-brutal market like Toronto. I'd argue that Wilson on your Oilers would be just as ill a fit as Quinn is (I agree with you about him there - young team means you have to be a much more active coach).
Difference between Quinn and Wilson though, is that Quinn never came across as an a-hole, in all the time he spent in Toronto. He seemed like a curmudgeonly old guy, grumpy at times, but certainly never once bashed a player in public, and was very respectful and thoughtful and kind at times, in a quiet way.
Wilson comes across as a hard-ass most of the time, with a "my way or the highway" attitude over things of little importance, and certainly has come across as an a-hole many times.
Hard to judge, but I'll say this: Kaberle would enjoy playing for Quinn and your Oilers! 
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2010 : 13:05:49
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Interesting, when Quinn was in TO I always disliked him because of this arrogance about him I felt was undeserved. When he was in Edmonton for the season, I found him very much to be the a-hole you spoke about. He maybe didn't call out specific players, but he sure didn't pull any punches.
Honestly, I would like to see a lot more of the "my way or the highway' attitudes from coaches, GM's, and owners. Honestly, many of these guys are multi-million dollar babies that get handled with kid gloves all the time. It's really a joke.
When a guy like Horcoff signs a deal like he did after being nearly a PPG player to scoring 36 points and being nearly dead last in the NHL in +/-, he should get called out. Really, that's one of the things I like about Wilson. He is an equal opportunity offender. He calls out who deserves it and doesn't apologize for it.
But I digress, sorry for going off topic. The NHL stories are a little dry these days. How about Tiger?????? |
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2010 : 15:48:54
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| Beans i think you are absolutely right, kaberle will be traded ( if not before the season starts ) maybe 15 - 20 games in. yeah were off topic but an interesting conversation...who cares..lol. Wilsons calling out of players i have no problem with, its his attitude toward everything else, certain people, Canada itself, team canada, canadian hockey in general. The guy just can`t except the fact that we are the BEST !!! Even when we win in his eyes we didn`t deserve it. I think he is a real mammas ( sooky ) boy. As for Pat Qinn as a coach, he is too predictable, too easy for a good coach to read. He is so old school that his tactics don`t even come into play anymore. Same ole- Same-ole night in - night out, booorrring...yawnnnn. Same dumb comments to media every night, think its time to retire Pat. P.S...as for winning major tournaments, don`t forget these coaches have major players, They the best in the world at their fingertips, hard for any1 to screw that up. |
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro
735 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2010 : 17:06:42
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I'm with Slozo about Ron Wilson. I don't respect him because the results are not there. Good players or not, it's still the NHL and the team should at least compete defensively. Since I watch the Leafs the past two seasons as been there worst (Maybe Mike Murphy did a worst job, but look where he end up) I mean they blew some big leads, had some aweful losing streak, no confidence, no heart, no powerplay, no pk. Yes Ron Wilson didn't have much to work with but he still failed miserably. The team wasn't buying his system not one bit, especially the forwards. If a team buy a good system even the worst team on paper can compete night in and night out.
I like the fact that Ron Wilson is calling out on players, and I don't care about his arrogance, as I don't pay attention on their personnalities. I'm waiting for results, and if this year they don't compete for a playoff spot well I will continue to dislike Ron Wilson.
I'm not just blaming the coach but if Wilson doesn't like Kaberle or vice versa I would much rather sign Kaberle for another 5 years and fire the coach, there's many other new coach with a new approach who could guide one of the youngest team in the nhl and give them confidence.
I think the main problem was firstly their goaltending, then the players not playing the coach system (where's the problem?) and then the forwards just playing aweful defensively. The rest of the blame was the product that was on the ice. |
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Tomas Kaberle - Bargaining Chip 
