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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
 Posted - 08/10/2010 : 15:49:44
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Lol Joe.... While it's perhaps a reasonable trade, i still had to chuckle. It's a good thing you don't run the Sharks or you'd have a team the size of a football squad!!!
Slozo's right, Beauchemin wouldn't fetch a whole lot on the market, especially after last season. If the Leafs are looking to simply get rid of a dman, they may get a draft pick for him or a prospect but certainly not a 1st liner at this point!
Burke is quite likely being overly greedy about Kaberle's value and has prob already squashed some reasonable deals. He really needs to understand that GM's know he's in somewhat of a bind. The guy is very stubborn. Unless he figures he can sign him long term, he's gonna shoot himself in the foot at the rate he's going! |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2010 : 20:16:04
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quote:
You left out that Simmonds is as skinny as a rake, Irvine - that's the knock against him. He weighs around 181 lbs, in a 6'2" frame . . . he needs to add on some weight, otherwise injuries will happen for sure, especially since he does play unafraid.
The other things is, he was never highly rated for whatever reason, and has consistently overperformed. Not a bad thing at all by itself, but it could easily be that he will quickly peter out after this promising beginning in the NHL . . . who really knows, it's only been two seasons.
Still, 40 points is solid on the third line, getting no pp time to boost the numbers. And his work ethic is tops apparently.
Like I said, I'd take him, but I would also want a decent prospect alongside . . . and who knows, but maybe that's a sticking point between Burke and LA, with Burke holding out for more.
Honestly Slozo, you need to see Simmonds play a few games. If Burke covets him, its for a reason - they guy is a solid performer (40 points on the 2nd and 3rd line in LA), and as Irinve says, is well on his way to being a 25 goal/60pt player, that plays a hard physical game despite his size, and is becoming a premier PK player. He's only 21, so he'll fill out that frame in time.
I personally think LA would be foolish to be pursuing Kaberle. They don't have a need for all those defencemen - if you assume that Doughty and Johnson will both sign for 5+ each next year, and Kaberle will command 5M, that would leave LA with approx 25M committed to their blue line, 15 of it tied up in 3 players. It makes no sense for LA long-term. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2010 : 20:19:54
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| interesting tidbit about Simmonds... read an article that mentioned ATL pursued him heavily as part of a deal involving Kovalchuk at last year's trade deadline, because they are trying to acquire a significant group of black players (Evander Kane, Jonny Oduya, Anthony Stewart, the newly acquired Buffy, prospects Akim Aliu and Sebastian Owuya are already there), to better connect with the largely black population there. |
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1315 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2010 : 15:04:03
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@ Slozo:
Some people may not have highly regarded Simmonds, before entering the NHL. But I for one, did.
I follow a lot of different hockey leagues, including the junior ones. Kontinental League, SM-Liiga, SEL, DEL, Swiss, etc...
And, I had seen Simmonds play a bit during his young career. I was always high on him. He plays, and has played, a well-rounded game. He never takes a shift off, never has. He plays every game like he has something to prove, not only to fans, but to him self. And that adds value in my mind.
This guy is only going to get better, believe me. He will not diminish any time soon, not even on another team. He will be a 55-60 point player, who kills penalties and shuts down the opposition from the forecheck.
His size is a bit of an issue, sure. But every NHL player, no matter the size, has injury issues. His style of game, may create more injury scenarios. But, to me, in PRO sports you do not shy away from a guy because of his 'potential' for injuries, especially with none on the books yet. Because, every player has that potential. You'd never ice a solid roster, if you looked at things from that perspective.
Simmonds is a quality character guy, who plays a 2-way game, and will continue to develop at both ends of the ice. I'd take him in Ottawa, any day. The Leafs should be happy, if he was offered in a deal.
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@ nuxfan:
Atlanta have made it known before, they are targeting people of color for their roster, due to the population in Georgia being majority black.
And honestly, I can't say that it will hurt them. Not if, they are talented players. I mean, to just add a guy because of his color, without skill, would be absurd.
But guys like Kane, Buff, Oduya, Stewart, Aliu, etc.. don't hurt the team. They are all young, talented players with upside.
They are hoping to increase their revenue and ticket sales, by having guys that people of color can idolize and relate to. And honestly, it may work a bit.
Will they sell out because of it? No. Not even close. But, they may help kids (African-American), get involved more in hockey. Which, would be nice.
And, if they get more involved and more play, the more they will attend NHL games.
Seems logical. Long as, they don't go too far and make it all about that.
Irvine/prez. |
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2010 : 17:33:42
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| can`t believe some of the stupid stuff i am reading on other sites regarding the ( possible ) kaberle trade. i think he will end up in Columbus, ( just a feeling ) i think of all the teams who may want him, Columbus is maybe the most desperate to make it back into the playoffs. i feel Rick Nash will not stay there much longer if their losing ways continue ( trade demand from him ). there may be a lot of pressure on Columbus to land a guy like kaberle and that pressure may give Toronto a good return, anyway this week will tell. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2010 : 20:07:20
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I too think CBJ is one of the likeliest of landing spots for Kaberle. You're right, they have a need and they have things to offer TOR in return. Question is, is it enough for Burkie?
NYI could use him as well. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2010 : 21:30:20
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CBJ is out of the picture for me for one reason. That is Kaberle, IMO, would be unlikely to resign there. Why would he?? He has the opportunity to be the most highly sought after UFA defensemen next season. If he gets traded, although it's not his call per se, it has to be to a team that he would resign with. CBJ is 3ish years(if at all) from being a legitimate contender. That is if they fill a ton of roster spots with talent.
That being said, one would think that if a team is putting an offer in for Kaberle, they are also talking to his agent about how likely he is to resign. No team is going to give Burke what he wants unless he resigns. If Kaberle wants to win, that team will have to be a contender now or at least on the right track.
CBJ does not fit that mold. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2010 : 22:44:09
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Beans, true enough. That unfortunately leaves precious little for Kaberle to consider. Teams that he would want to go to - ie, contenders - are already either flush with a capable defense or near/over the cap and can't really afford him, or they don't want to offer much for him in return (to avoid upsetting the core). The teams that really need him would be unlikely to get him to extend.
So, he needs a team that could contend, but that has a need for his skills and is willing to extend him. They also have to give up something of value to Burke. Some teams I think could be in the hunt:
NYR. There is word that they are going to waive Redden which would free up the cap space to get Kaberle, and they certainly have a need. I think they can offer value back to TOR (Leafs fans may argue that point - I think I mentioned NYR as a possible landing pad for Kaberle a couple of pages ago to a lot of derision). NYR are not serious contenders now, but they have a lot of the bits required.
DET. This is very likely Lidstrom's last year with them, and Rafalski only has one more after this. Kaberle could be the type of dman that they would like to add to fill the Lidstrom void - but can they do it this year? And, what would they give to TOR in return?
WSH. They could use more defensive depth, but as with DET, what do they give up? The rest of their team seems to be a sort of "gods or clods" scenario - either budding superstars or fillers. You obviously don't give up Semin/OV/Backstrom... perhaps Fleishmann? Is that enough? Probably not.
COL. I still think this is the most likely destination for him. Good young team, up and coming, need Kaberle's skills, and have things to offer back to Burke.
I think there are only 3 days left before the NTC kicks in again for the year. Get busy!
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1315 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2010 : 12:08:52
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I could see Detroit persuing Kaberle if Lidstrom had retired already, but he hasn't. I don't see Detroit making a move for a d-man of that caliber, until Lidstrom is gone and retired. So, next year.
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Washington need defensive depth, but not offensive depth. Not of that caliber. They have Green and others, who can do what Kaberle does. They need solid defensive d-men.
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Colorodo is possible, if they are willing to spend some money.
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The NYR, if they do waive Redden, could use a guy of this sort to help out their Power Play.
The question is, who do they send to Toronto? What would Burke want?
Irvine/prez. |
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2010 : 15:16:27
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| I think Burke has already had good offers for Kaberle, pending a contract extension for kaberle. Seems like kaberle wants to play for Toronto and only Toronto. Maybe this is why it is taking so long for a trade to happen, perhaps interested teams know that they will have trouble re-signing him. Offers will not be so great for a 1 year deal player. |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2010 : 13:27:52
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Carolina might be a great fit, sure they were bad last year but the could be a surprise team this year adding a puck moving d man to feed the puck up and out to Staal may be a good move,, not to mention they are chock full of young players they could offer up in excahange,,,, but burke said on the fan590 he is looking for a player that will bring an immediate impact and is only considering a futur package
Pasty |
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2010 : 20:48:57
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| Burke will probally get a better offer from a GM whose job security is on the bubble, more so from a GM whose job is secure. no-name GM`s who are on a short-leash with high expectations from management for a quick turn-around will probally give up highly talented prospects, high draft picks etc... more quickly than a GM who has more lee-way with management and more time to build a team.....Columbus, Colorado ??? |
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irvine
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1315 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2010 : 03:36:23
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Colorado could certainly benefit from having a guy like Kaberle on their roster. He would provide some needed offense from the backend on the power play and 5-on-5.
Colorado also have plenty of youth to offer up, in return for Kaberle's services. They also have a ton of cap space available. In fact, currently $23.795 Million.
I do not however, think they are willing to spend any of that cap space. They will spend a little more, but I don't see them going far over the league minimum.
I also don't think Colorado will be a playoff team this season. They over-achieved last season, greatly in my opinion. Their young guys (plenty of them), stepped up last year far beyond expectations. But, I don't see them repeating that success this year, as a team.
I project the Avs to finish around 9th or 10th this year, just on the outside looking in. They will battle for 8th, but, fall just short.
They can be a strong team in the next few years, as their youth develop and progress. But, I just don't see them doing as well this season, as they did the last. I find they lack too much depth. Their youth will need to over-achieve yet again, which I find too unlikely two years in a row.
With that in mind, I don't see them having a great interest in moving any of their future youth, for Kaberle. I think even Colorado know, their time is not now. It's in 2-3 years time, when the youth are developed and the core is ready. That's when, they'd have a need for a Kaberle type. But by then, Kaberle wouldn't be the target. lol.
Irvine/prez. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2010 : 12:18:22
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| well, one thing is for sure - I will be happy when Monday rolls around and this will be decided one way or the other. Its taking on a bit of a Kovalchuk-esque soap opera feel... |
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Sensfan101
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
500 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2010 : 10:55:27
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I heard on Sporstcentre that Kaberle will not be traded before Monday
You miss 100 percent of the shots you don't take Wayne Gretzky |
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Guest4050
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Posted - 08/15/2010 : 11:17:35
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| Toronto missed the boat on this one. If they truly wanted an impact player they should have traded him a year ago. Now all they can realisticly hope too get are some decent prospects or draft picks. |
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2010 : 18:50:38
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| Getting late, i guess kaberle is staying. Personally i was hoping for a trade, i`m not a big kaberle fan, guess a lot of GM`s are not kaberle fans either. This must be the case, you would think of the other 29 teams someone would make a good offer. kaberle to me is very, very soft in front of the net and if he is so great offensively then why is TO`s powerplay either 28th, 29th or 30th in ranking each year ?? Oh i know kaberle won`t shoot the puck !!! , he just likes playing with it...lol |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2010 : 19:45:45
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Duke - no one needs gifted defencemen like Kaberle to be hard in front of the net . . . that is not what they are about. And as bad as the Leafs pp has been in the past, you can point to the departure of Sundin as the beginning of the end of the Leafs power play for the period of time up till now. Kaberle, btw, surrounded by mostly incompetence, continues to produce quite decently, in fact.
Kaberle had 3g, 22a on the pp last year, which is probably tops on the team, I'd reckon, without looking it up. I actually like the fact that he has matured a bit offensively and doesn't completely pad his stats on the pp . . . at least he only had half his nearly 50 points with the man advantage.
No, there isn't any need to slag the guy . . . he is a talented offensive d-man, and certainly doesn't hurt you much in his own end. Nothing more, nothing less.
And when he is dealt tonight before the clock strikes 12, I will wish him nothing but the best. 
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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leafsfan_101
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1530 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2010 : 19:52:37
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quote:
Originally posted by The Duke
Getting late, i guess kaberle is staying. Personally i was hoping for a trade, i`m not a big kaberle fan, guess a lot of GM`s are not kaberle fans either. This must be the case, you would think of the other 29 teams someone would make a good offer. kaberle to me is very, very soft in front of the net and if he is so great offensively then why is TO`s powerplay either 28th, 29th or 30th in ranking each year ?? Oh i know kaberle won`t shoot the puck !!! , he just likes playing with it...lol
Duke, I don't think you could be more incorrect if you tried. I think most GM's in the league would love to add Kaberle to their team, the main dilemma is what they would have to give back in return for his services, and if it is indeed only for one season, then how much do you trade away for a one year player. And then Burke, stingy as he is, has to accept the trade.
And you ask why Toronto's PP was last with Kaberle? Considering the fact that besides Kessel and Kaberle there was limited to no other scoring presence on the ice or no body in front of the net, getting 25 points on the powerplay sure sounds impressive. Also, consider the fact that Kaberle came 8th amongst defenseman in powerplay points and he scored about half of his offensive production on the leagues worst PP squad. As I said, he came 8th in PP points, impressive for being on the worst PP unit right. Even more impressive considering that the only 2 of the other 7 players (excluding Kaberle) were not on playoff teams (Scott Niedermeyer and Kurtis Foster). And of the players in front of him, only Gonchar was on a team that was not in the top 10 in PP% (although Pittsburgh was 19th).
If the stats are not impressive enough, watch him play! Few can more a puck as fluently as he can, and he provides one of the most underrated commodities in hockey. How many current players more the puck like him? Off the top of my head, Dan Boyle and Mike Green are on his level, with Gonchar in a close second. He is definitely one of the best at what he does, and the fact that he is in limited supply makes him all the more valuable. Most of the top teams cannot afford him for a full year without reshuffling their roster, so a more likely time for him to be traded is at the trade deadline.
But to say he is not good is just ridiculous. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2010 : 20:47:31
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I think one has to be specific when they say, 'move the puck." If my skating the puck through the neutral zone, absolutely Kaberle is one of the elite in the league. Passing it through?? Not the best. Well above average, but when you have guys like Pronger, Lidstrom, et al, Kaberle is not elite in that department.
However, that is not intended to slag the guy in any way. I would emphatically disagree with the opinion that most GM's don't want him because they did not trade for him. They all want him, but none can afford him. The asking price is simply too much for a player who is potentially a 1 year investment. Burke would have been better suited to look at signing him to a 4ish year deal for a reasonable number and then trade him. No one wants a 1 year Kaberle and without some kind of assurance he is staying, no one will give up a big scoring forward and a draft pick like Burke was apparently asking for.
Don't kid yourself about Kaberle, every GM would like him on their team. Including Burke. Unfortunately, wanting a player and being able to have a player is rarely the same.
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2010 : 20:57:53
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Here is some stuff that I have read:
- Tampa Bay offered Downie, Ranger, and a 1st rounder. Burke wanted a completely unprotected 1st round pick which Yzerman was not willing to give up.
-San Jose offered Clowe and a pick. Apparently Ekland said a deal was done, so obviously there is not hope that Kaberle is going to the Sharks
-Dallas offered a player and a pick if Kaberle resigned and if Kaberle didn't resign, TO sent a pick to Dallas. I am thinking it was Riberio as he has been offered to every team in the league (literally)
-The Kings want him but don't want to give up what Burke wants. Apparently LA has offered Willie Mitchell a 2 year deal.
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2010 : 21:04:03
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That TB deal looks pretty sweet IMO, if it is fact. If that is not enough for Burke, then I'm pretty sure Kaberle is staying put and Burke is asking too much.
Even Clowe and a pick, if its true....man, what is Burke looking for in return here? |
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Guest4803
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Posted - 08/15/2010 : 22:34:29
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| oh well the best part now is that the leafs will get absouletly nothing for kaberle, i hope he denies any future trade request pulling a sundin on the leafs after the way they have treated him over the past year and a half. If TB actually offered that package for kaberle burke is an idiot for not accepting it. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2010 : 23:21:37
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Is Burke really an idiot?? Ranger didn't play at all last season, He is an headcase of some kind or there are some other issues involved. So, the deal was ultimately Downie, which is not the player Burke is looking for, and a pick but not an asssured 1st round pick.
The Clowe deal is significantly better than that!! Downie for Kaberle?? Not in this lifetime. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2010 : 06:00:21
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Well, first off, these deals are purely heresay, and we must remember that the Clowe deal is brought to us by the ridiculous Ekland.
That being said, I agree with Beans, and this is as a LEafs fan looking for the best value back - Downie, I wouldn't have taken either, as Beans said we also don't need Ranger and his headaches. The Ribeiro thing . . . . I don't know, I wouldn't have been unhappy at all with Ribeiro, but I see where Burke is coming from by not getting him.
Clowe, however, I would have jumped at . . . and I would scratch my head at why Burke wouldn't have grabbed that as well.
Which is why I give that rumour no credence whatsoever.
I am surprised that Kaberle is still here, I will say that much. The Lebda signing looks very, very odd now . . . and we have 8 starting defencemen, so a trade has to happen in the future you'd think.
In the end though, I like our defence, but will not crow about how great it is or about how happy I am with it until December, when they have a good amount of games under their belt. Once bitten, twice as shy (after the horrid start last year) . . .
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro
735 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2010 : 08:14:01
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I'm glad that Kaberle stays, I am looking forward to a season of him playing on the point with Phaneuf. This should help the powerplay greatly. Now Burke just needs to work on extending his contract. If he can't that's where we lose.
The only thing is like Slozo said we now have 8 starting defenseman. So the obvious good thing to do is to bury Finger's contract in the AHL, and then split the time between Gunnarson and Lebda when every defenseman are healthy. If injuries hit Toronto defense then I think Aullie could step up. |
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leafsfan_101
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1530 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2010 : 09:14:38
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Agree 100% with Leafs81. Finger is the smart guy to move out and clear up the 3.5 mil due to him next season, giving the Leafs about 7 mil leeway on the cap.
They still need another top 6 forward, but things sure do look more promising than last season. |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2010 : 09:44:52
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quote:
Originally posted by leafsfan_101
Agree 100% with Leafs81. Finger is the smart guy to move out and clear up the 3.5 mil due to him next season, giving the Leafs about 7 mil leeway on the cap.
They still need another top 6 forward, but things sure do look more promising than last season.
according to Capgeek the Leafs have just over 2 million in cap space now,, correct me if i'm wrong but you can't bury contracts in the minors without consequences,, i mean why do teams not do this if it was as easy as... "oh we'll just bury his contract in the minors" it seems to me and again i could be wrong but to send a guy like finger down he has to clear waviers,, (i assume he will because noone will pick up the who 3.5 million contract he is getting) then once in the minors part of his salary still counts against the cap, in order to bring him back to the big leagues he has to pass through re entry waviers and then some other team can pick him up for half his contract and the other half still counts against the leafs cap,,, somebody do correct me if i'm wrong,,, and if the leafs buy him out it clears the leafs up 2.33 million in cap space putting the leafs cap space at rougly 4.35 million not 7
Pasty |
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro
735 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2010 : 12:23:57
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We already talked about this Patsy. Yes according to capgeek they have 2.2 but according to nhl numbers they have around 3.8. The 1.5 million or so of difference is just the result of calculating the bonus differently. I think cap geek goes by saying if all the bonuses are paid this would be the cap space they have. And where nhl numbers are calculating the cap space before the bonuses. Anyway they have roughly around 3 millions in cap space right now.
Also I don't know much about burying contracts but I thought you could put a player in the AHL for a whole season, that player would get paid his full contract but since he didn't play any game in the NHL the salary wont go against the cap. The reason for not many teams doing it with the big contracts players, its because the team just can't afford to pay a guy 3 or 4 millions to play in the AHL. Some teams can and Toronto is one of them.
I don't think you need to go through all the waivers before putting a player in the AHL. But I could very well be wrong, and if somebody knows please share... |
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leafsfan_101
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1530 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2010 : 13:20:04
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From what I know, any player in the AHL does not have his salary count against the cap. Also, unless the player is on a 2 - way contract or is under a specified age (which I think is 23) than they can be sent down without clearing waivers, otherwise the player needs to clear waivers before being sent down.
As Tiller said, not many teams can afford to pay an AHL scrub 3.5 mil. The Leafs can, and they most likely will with Finger. |
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2010 : 17:41:07
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| Anyway i started a good debate ( kaberle`s value ), every1 jumped in, thats good. I`m not a kaberle hater...i just see more value in a defenseman who will knock the opposing forward ( in front of his own net ) on his a$$ more often instead of engaging in a group hug. No doubt kaberle can handle the puck...but i`m sure as a leaf fan you have cursed as i have watching him hold the puck at the blueline shouting to yourself SHOOOOOOT the F - ing puck...lol. I think that Carl Gunn. will be better than what half the leafs defenseman are right now. Leafs only had 3 D-men above water last year in the plus-minus dept...Phaneuf @ plus 1,,, Shenn @ plus 2,,,Gunnar @ plus 8....Mr. Kaberle @ MINUS..16 SCARY...don`t forget they ALL played for the same team...its nice to make a pretty pass which leads to a goal BUT when you don`t lean on guys in your end YOU JUST GIVE THAT GOAL BACK....therefore the lousy plus/minus. |
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2010 : 17:46:32
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| P.S...yes the Clowe deal would have been good but i think that was just a rumor. S.J think a lot over him and i don`t think he was offered to the leafs or burke would have pulled the trigger. |
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Guest4803
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Posted - 08/16/2010 : 20:29:29
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| the rumor from tampa bay was that malone was actually the player offfered but there was no pick involved so burke didnt want any part of it. According to Andy Stickland. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2010 : 21:13:04
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Who cares if Kaberle don't knock people around. I don't recall Nick Lidstrom ever leaning on anyone let alone lay anyone out and he was an alright defensemen, right??
And tell me any NHL fan of any team who doesn't yell at the TV for their PP quarterback to shoot the puck. Truth is, when you are as talented and productive as Kaberle, no one should judge when you are shooting and when you are not unless you are crusty old man with either Wilson or Burke as your last name.
Kaberle is the kind if player he is and like any other player has his strengths and weaknesses. No one was asking Gretzky to dig in the corners or Howe to lay off the elbows a little bit were they??
Kaberle does exactly what he gets paid to do and does it well. A debate is 2 sided. This argument is not. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2010 : 22:40:07
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I'm not so sure the SJ offer was just a rumour. It's possible, but i could see them offering that package up as they have been shopping Clowe with the number of forwards they have. They also might see him as a piece to put them over the top in their cup quest which as far as "windows of opportunity" go, is closing fast!
At the same time, i know Burke is stubborn and quite possibly in his mind, the package wasn't enough? |
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2010 : 17:03:47
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| Yes Beans i agree N.Lidstrom has always been and still is a great defenseman...what year was he Minus - 16 though ?? Never maybe. Automatically people will say, Yeah but he played on Detroit...great players make great teams - not the other way around. If your going to bring up fowards in comparing player characteristics to kaberle, use M. Savard or M. Cammerelli maybe, not Gretzky or Howe for gods-sake. Like i said before, i`m not a kaberle Hater, ( i am a leaf fan by the way ) but i think more physical well rounded defenseman are more valuable to a hockey team than a one demensional hockey player. If a defenseman doesn`t hit, doesn`t another D-man have to do that job for him ? |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2010 : 17:26:11
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Well Duke, it's obvious that you missed the point I was trying to make. I was not comparing Gretzky or Howe to Kaberle in the least. My point was that Kaberle plays his style and he is good at it and changing that style would not be a wise decision. Much like telling Gretzky to dig in the corners or Howe to stop play physical hockey would not be a wise decision.
And you are correct, Nick Lidstrom has never been a (-)player. Again, I was comparing the physical play which was also missed.
And don't even start doing that 'great players make great teams' nonsense when talking about +/-. Do you think it's a fluke that 19 of the 25 Leaf skaters who played last season were (-) players?? On the flip side, do you think it's a fluke that that 20 of the 30 players on the President's Trophy winning Capitals were (+) players??
9 of the 15 worst +/- players in the NHL last season played for Edmonton or NYI and 10 of the 15 best +/- players last year played for either Washington or Vancouver.
The team has a bigger impact on +/- than the player. Do you think for one second that Jeff Schultz is +50 playing for the Leafs and that Kaberle is not a + player if he is with Washington???
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2010 : 16:23:36
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| anyway Beans i love debating hockey, YES i agree with your last comments, kaberle would be a plus player on the Capitals. Again i`m not kicking kaberle, i like kaberle to a point, i just would rather more physical D-men on my team. Washington has a great team because they have great players....like i said great players make great teams. TO has had a lot of lousy players over the past few seasons, therefore a lousy team is the end result. Kaberle was not one of those lousy players though. chat again later.. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2010 : 22:28:31
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So apparently Kaberle's dad has stepped into things, and has claimed that Kaberle will be traded because of his "strained" relationship with Wilson. Article here:
http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL/Toronto/2010/08/19/15081591.html
I'm not really sure where this will end, but if enough things like this get said, Kaberle will exit TO fast. If he asks for a trade now, Burke is likely to get next to nothing for him. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2010 : 08:42:39
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Wow, interesting article. Now that he's worth nothing, maybe we can do a sign and trade and give them Wellwood back for him? Lol....
All kidding aside, i'm not so sure this diminishes his value. Even if Kaberle were to sit out, i don't see Burke as rushing into dealing him. His stubborness will take over and he'd sooner "sit on him" till a deal comes along he likes! Teams which were offering on him a week ago now have more time (if the rumour is true) to possibly tweak their deals to try to close something? There's even a slight possibility that Burke gets more now than a week ago as a team may just throw in an extra pick (likely a lower one) to try to get a deal done?
Speaking of Wellwood, i'm surprised no team has signed him, though admittedly, i don't know what he's after and whether or not there's been any interest to date? |
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Tomas Kaberle - Bargaining Chip 
