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Go_Habs_Go
Rookie
157 Posts |
 Posted - 01/20/2011 : 10:58:03
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Poll Question:
If the Red Wings close the deal with Nabokov, who will become Detroit's first goaltender ?
"Bon point Jacques!" - Benoît Brunet
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2011 : 11:12:07
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you need another option for "Nabokov won't end up in DET". He has to clear waivers to get into the NHL, and depending on the contract number, there may be a few teams willing to pick him up on the waiver wire.
If he should end up in DET, then I would suspect it will be a tandem system, riding the hot goalie. |
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Go_Habs_Go
Rookie
157 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2011 : 11:15:48
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That's why I wrote "if"...
The question is more about Nabokov-Howard than Nabokov in Detroit or not
"Bon point Jacques!" - Benoît Brunet |
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Guest0965
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Posted - 01/20/2011 : 11:38:34
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| looks like it will be a last minute signing so that no one would be able to claim nabby, |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2011 : 12:53:00
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| there is no such thing as a "last minute signing", he has to clear waivers once signed, and all teams get a shot at him and the contract he signs with DET. |
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Guest5958
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Posted - 01/20/2011 : 14:35:16
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Umm...why would Nabokov have to clear waivers? He is a free agent. I have *never* heard of a free agent having to clear waivers.
My understanding is that waivers only kick in when assigning a player to a minor league team and again upon reentry from the minors, subject to some exceptions. This would not be the case for a player who was playing in the KHL and is, as far as the NHL is concerned, a free agent.
I could be off on this, but I don't think so. |
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fat_elvis_rocked
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2011 : 14:41:48
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Any clarification would be nice, but I am agreeing with the guest on this one, after last season, Nabokov's contract with San Jose was done, making him an un-restricted free agent.
He signed a now, mutually, terminated contract in the KHL, again making him a true free agent. I would also think there is no waiver to be done in this circumstance. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2011 : 14:44:56
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Free agency, as far as I understand, only applies from July 1st to September 15th. Any time outside of that window, any team can sign any free agent but that player then MUST clear waivers through every other team in the NHL.
Hence Svatos and Wellwood both being signed by STL and being picked up by waivers by other teams.
Now, Nabokov would more than likely be given a number of starts through the end of the season to see who would be the best option to go into the playoffs with. Babcock is known to ride one horse into the playoffs until that guy proves himself no longer valuable and then he goes to the back up.
I would suggest this will mean the begining of the end of arguable the most over-rated goalie in NHL history, Chris Osgood. |
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fat_elvis_rocked
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2011 : 15:09:26
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That makes sense! Forgot about the recent Wellwood and Svatos waiver issues.
Thanks for the clarification Beans! |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2011 : 15:14:15
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the waiver rules are complex - not every player has to clear waivers, it depends on service, first contract signing age, current age, etc. However there is a specific provision for any player that begins the year playing overseas - they must clear waivers if they're brought back to the NHL during the NHL season. Nabby will have to clear waivers for sure.
If he were signed in the offseason, he'd be a regular UFA signing. |
Edited by - nuxfan on 01/20/2011 15:15:36 |
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Guest4271
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Posted - 01/20/2011 : 15:21:00
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I like the idea the GM of STL came up with after losing out on two free agents through the waiver system.
He argued that there should be a compensation system in place, like a monetary penalty awarded to the team that signed the player, but lost him on waivers, from the claiming team...that or only allow teams below in the standings to claim players.
This makes sense since one team spends all the money drafting a contract and negotiating, only to see another team swoop in.
Actually, does anyone know if the NHL just uses the same contract with the new team, or do they need to draft a new, but similar one?
Also, say Nabokov agrees to sign with Detroit, but then he is claimed by the Devils, can he then opt out of the contract or is he basically taking a gamble that he wont be claimed? |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2011 : 15:28:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4271
Also, say Nabokov agrees to sign with Detroit, but then he is claimed by the Devils, can he then opt out of the contract or is he basically taking a gamble that he wont be claimed?
Very interesting point. If Nabby were to sign somewhere, i'd assume he'd prefer to go to a contender, much like a goalie like Giguere waiving his NTC. What if he signs with Det and then is scooped up by a team like the Sens (for whatever reason)?
Does he have an out? |
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Guest4986
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Posted - 01/20/2011 : 15:34:08
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| I think they would stick with Howard he has been solid this year. Having Nabby backing up would be a scary thought for the playoff run though. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2011 : 16:17:52
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quote:
Very interesting point. If Nabby were to sign somewhere, i'd assume he'd prefer to go to a contender, much like a goalie like Giguere waiving his NTC. What if he signs with Det and then is scooped up by a team like the Sens (for whatever reason)?
Does he have an out?
Interesting question. There is nothing in the CBA regarding this situation, and it could very well happen for someone like Nabby - he would clearly want to play for a contender.
I suppose he can opt to not honour the contract and simply walk away. The acquiring team would have little recourse, but it would guarantee that Nabby didn't play for DET. |
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foolpittier
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
374 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2011 : 17:22:30
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| i hope this goes down. |
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Go_Habs_Go
Rookie
157 Posts |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2011 : 22:11:32
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Go Habs Go.....i assume the video you posted a link for was to confirm the signing of Nabby in Detroit? I couldn't wait to watch it announced, especially when the video wanted me to watch a commercial for 30 seconds so i've copied a link from USA today for anyone intersted in reading about it. 
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hockey/nhl/wings/2011-01-20-evgeni-nabokov-interest_N.htm
Now we wait to see if any other teams decide they want him as an insurance policy. A pretty reasonably priced one i might add! |
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KariyaSelanne
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
297 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2011 : 22:34:12
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| I say someone takes him just so Detroit can't, damn I hate those Red Wings |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2011 : 22:55:34
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Apparently the contract amount is for 570K for the remainder of the year - so a 250K cap hit based on pro-rated amount.
I cannot believe that someone else will not pickup a goalie like Nabokov for a 250K cap hit tomorrow when he hits the waiver wire. Hell, even the Canucks might pick him up for that little money and put him with the Moose, just so DET doesn't get their hands on him.
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Edited by - nuxfan on 01/20/2011 22:56:45 |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2011 : 03:05:53
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I also cannot imagine another team not picking him up on the waiver wire . . . but someone please explain to me - how does it work when more than team wants him? Do they bid on him, or is first one to talk to him gets him?
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Guest9885
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Posted - 01/21/2011 : 03:21:19
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| Why is the money so low? Thought he was worth considerably more than that. Is there some baggage with him or what? |
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Guest4959
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Posted - 01/21/2011 : 03:56:04
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| nuxfan the only problem with any team taking him is they have to plan to keep him on the NHL team, no one can send him to the AHL this year, pasted from tsn : Also, he is ineligible to play in American Hockey League this season due to league rules regarding free agents coming from Europe after Decemeber 15. |
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T-RAV
Top Prospect
Canada
75 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2011 : 04:49:31
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quote:
Originally posted by slozo
I also cannot imagine another team not picking him up on the waiver wire . . . but someone please explain to me - how does it work when more than team wants him? Do they bid on him, or is first one to talk to him gets him?
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Slozo, I read somewhere, that the teams get the option to claim him in reverse order of the standings(worst to first).
Therefore, it is my understanding that the only 2 teams that wont have a crack at him (before Det gets to keep him) are Van and Philly. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2011 : 06:54:55
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Wow, go to one hockey game and miss all of this??
Firstly, the waiver wire works for every NHL team. So even Philly and and Van will have a shot at him. He has to clear every other team to be able to be recalled.
Secondly, to Slozo's question, it is first come first serve based on worst to first at the time of the signing.
Thirdly, there is always an out for a player. They don't have to play. If say Jersey pick up Nabokov and he doesn't want to play there, he just doesn't show up. He won't get paid and he won't be able to play for the duration of his contract for any other NHL team. No players has to honor his contract.
Finally, to the point of a team signing a free agent, losing them to another team on the waiver and then getting compensation for it??? What?? That's absurd. That team knows the rules and understands the risks involved when they sign the player. Compensation for a team getting duped by another team following the rules??? Nope, not in my world. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2011 : 08:00:33
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Interesting.
I know a lot of GMs claim to abide by a certain "code" in that they don't go out of their way to screw over another team . . . but in this case, I don't see why a GM of another western team wouldn't want to claim Nabakov and stop Detroit from getting him. Especially a team like Vancouver, or better yet Chicago (who could really use him), or teams like Dallas, Nashville, Colorado.
And who is to say that Nabakov would not play for any of those legitimate contenders for the cup? He would certainly give them a better chance, that's for sure.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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ryan93
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
996 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2011 : 08:06:13
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I agree with what John Davidson said, and i do think the teams should be compensated in the future for incidents like the Svatos/Wellwood scenerios. As JD said, the Blues did all the work to get the aforemetioned players back to North America, negioated the contract, etc...only to have him swipped up by another team.
Yes under the current CBA it's perfectally fine, and yes JD & the Blues realized that and said they have no ill will towards either the Preds or Sharks organizations for doing so...but that they'd like to see the whole process of free agency in regards to leagues such as the KHL reviewed. It's going to be one of the topics discussed at the upcoming GM meetings. |
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ryan93
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
996 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2011 : 08:11:58
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| I know if i was a GM, i'd have a hard time passing on Nabokov at that price! As well as Andrew Raycroft has played this season for Dallas, Nabokov would be a nice insurance policy there in case Lehtonen (who's had all kinds of injury problems in the past) ever went down. Or how about Washington? Tampa Bay would of been a good fit a month ago, not sure if they'd want to go that route now though after trading for Roloson. I haven't seen/followed the Hawks much this season...how has Turco looked? And what about Philadelphia? I know they are are ahead of the Wings in the standings which normally would mean they Wings would have a chance to grab someone off the waiver wire before them, but i'm assuming the Wings are exempt from putting in a claim in this scenerio? |
Edited by - ryan93 on 01/21/2011 08:14:52 |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2011 : 10:05:24
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| Heard Ferraro on the radio this morning saying he wouldn't be surprised to see the Devils grab him and then negotiate a trade with Det thus seeing them getting some sort of asset in return. While this may be the norm, i don't like it. I look at it this way, if NJ really wanted him, THEY could have done the leg work and negotiated for his services and signed him. Same goes for every other team who didn't go after him! Makes me wonder if Det would have been better off letting someone else grab him, and then steal him from them? Of course, with the 3rd to last chance at grabbing him, he could have been long gone by the time they got their chance? |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2011 : 10:37:37
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Well, let's go worst to first . . .
New Jersey
I don't see it, they wouldn't want to offend Brodeur in that way, and the season is already a write-off. Besides, Nabby would probably say no, although with the chance at re-signing there after Brodeur retires is a bit of incentive I suppose.
Edmonton
No way do they sign . . . no reason to, and he wouldn't show up there.
NY Isles
ditto here.
Ottawa
They really could use him . . . but he would never show up to play in Ottawa, and who could blame him?
Toronto
Nope - doesn't fit in the plan here, goalie try-outs is crowded, and they want to stay young.
Calgary
Hmm . . . do they want to push Kipper? This is the first maybe, if they can squeeze him under their cap (I think they are right at the limit). Would Nabby show up here? Probably not.
Florida
Probably not . . . Vokoun needs no pushing, he's playing great.
Buffalo
Nope, for obvious reasons.
Columbus
He would never in a million years play for Columbus.
LA Kings
Now THAT would be interesting . . . hmm. But the young goalie situation is crowded here, no? Probably not.
St. Louis
Nope, they have Halak and decent back-ups.
Carolina
Nope - Ward is solid, and he'd never go there.
Minnesota
Backstrom needs no back-up.
San Jose
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha . . . . .. 
Hey guys, anything is possible!!!
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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TheRC
Rookie
105 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2011 : 11:05:13
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So, let me try and get this right...
One team signs a player who hasn't played in the league all year, and has no outstanding contracts with any other NHL team... and then every other team in the league has a chance to claim that player on the exact same terms as the original offer before the deal can go through?
And if anybody else claims Nabokov then Detroit loses him, with no chance to make a better deal or anything? And if Nabokov gets claimed somewhere he doesn't want to play his only options are to play anyway or to sit out the season?
That seems a little... wrong.
I can see the waiver system in regards to moving players between the NHL and AHL as a way to protect the concept of 1-way and 2-way contracts, but to apply it to a player who has had no dealings with the NHL all year is strange.
"If at first you don't succeed, you fail" |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2011 : 11:12:34
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RC, that's what i was getting at. Ray Ferraro did mention something today on the radio about Glen Sather getting Reijo Ruotsalainen back from Europe on more than one occasion (after the league he was playing in was finished) and they put this rule in for that affect? Something along those lines?
Beans, you know anything about this?
As far the only option being for a guy like Nabby to sit out, Ferraro figures NJ will in fact take him, and then trade him for "something", be it a 7th round pick, a bag of pucks, case of beer, whatever? |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2011 : 11:54:03
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quote:
That seems a little... wrong.
I believe the rule is set up this way to actually discourage teams from trying to sign non-NHL players during the seasons. The NHL doesn't want it to happen - so they add a special provision to the waiver rules making all non-NHL players signed during the season subject to waivers (in addition to other waiver rules).
The way the rule is setup, this sort of poaching is a real possibiliity each time a team tries to do this, thus discouraging teams from trying.
The grab-and-trade is an interesting idea, which would then mean anyone could grab him and try it. Nabby has possibly said "i'll only honour the contract with DET", so a team might try this tactic. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2011 : 13:30:48
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If i were Detroit, i'd have contact NJ, asked if they were interested in him and struck a deal right then and there for NJ to pick him up and Det to trade a late late late round draft pick to them for him. Let's face it, they'd be willing to give that up to a team if someone already had him, no?
They either have to / had to gamble on no one picking him up, or else make a deal like this. Really depends just how bad they want him. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2011 : 17:17:42
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Bob McKenzie clears up some of the Nabby waiver situation:
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=350469
Alex, it looks like your grab-him-then-trade-to-DET theory cannot work... |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2011 : 17:31:41
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Interesting.....i guess that Ferraro guy's a dummy then !
Don't think NJ will bother if that's the case, but i have a funny feeling that Washington or Philly might grab him for insurance. |
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Guest9885
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Posted - 01/21/2011 : 19:20:23
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| Still wondering why the money is so low. Anybody? |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2011 : 21:55:45
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guest9885 - who has the cap room for a big salary goalie right now that needs one, that is also a contender? Nabby ain't going to no Leafs or Oilers...
Also, he wasn't exactly lighting it up in Russia before he was released... |
Edited by - nuxfan on 01/21/2011 21:56:03 |
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Guest0218
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Posted - 01/22/2011 : 07:47:36
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Everyone seems to be discounting Toronto as a possible destination but I think they might grab him (Hab fan here so no "everyone should be a leaf!" situation). Especially with Giguere saying he'll waive his NTC, I can see Burke grabbing Nabokov then shipping out Giguere. And the fact that Toronto doesn't have their first round pick gives them zero incentive to stay at the bottom of the standings. Florida could try the same move with Vokoun.
Ultimately I don't see Nabokov getting to a playoff team simply because with a 250K cap hit, why wouldn't you take him? That's less than a lot of backups will make for the rest of the season...
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Guest0218
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Posted - 01/22/2011 : 07:50:50
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Forgot to mention....
As for Nabokov not showing up for the team who grabs him, I don't see it. He may have a talk with the team that grabs him and ask to be re-placed on waivers but if a team decides to stick with him, I think he'll play. If he wants to play in the NHL next year he should try to prove himself this year and show that his stats in the KHL (which were not good...) are not all that's left for him. |
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Guest9885
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Posted - 01/22/2011 : 07:52:46
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| I see. If I would've known the answer to your cap space question I would not have asked it would I? See, anybody can ask rhetorical questions that really no serve no purpose. Thanks for the info. |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2011 : 09:17:41
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and the Islanders pick him up!
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
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Topic |
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Nabokov to Detroit 
