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Guest7752
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 Posted - 03/02/2011 : 15:11:21
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With the Leafs, and in the last 5 years plus this season so far, Kaberle has amassed 42 goals and 204 assists in 435 games he played in. That’s an average of over 0.5 points per game. Most forwards would love these ppg numbers.
In this time, and in each subsequent year, he averaged 0.8 ppg, 0.8 ppg, 0.6 ppg, 0.5 ppg, 0.6 ppg. He had 0.6 ppg this season while with the Leafs.
This was a #1 D-man on the team, used on 5-on-5 situations as well as power-plays and p-kills. AND the Leaf teams over this time span were not the greatest.
Did he shine because he was the actual one of only few decent players on these so-so teams, and hence was he over-rated? I’ll even say over-rated especially by Burke since he wanted the world for Kaberle, and took way too long to make the trade.
He’s got 1 assist with Bruins in 5 games, playing mainly as #2 D-Man on the team, but under probably same playing conditions as he had with Leafs. AND the Bruins DO HAVE a real strong team. Is his shine less than most, especially Burke think? Shouldn't he be accumulating more points than ever with the Bruins?
We can’t use the excuse of him “learning” things on the new team, stats show that newly traded players tend to gain lots of momentum and points during the first games played with new teams.
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2011 : 15:29:07
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quote:
We can’t use the excuse of him “learning” things on the new team, stats show that newly traded players tend to gain lots of momentum and points during the first games played with new teams.
Sure we can. Not every player instantly gels with a new team that he was recently traded to, no matter what your stats show. Some of them take time to get up to speed, learn how to play with new teammates. In the case of Kaberle, he's also getting used to playing in a much better system than he had in TOR - better players, more reliable teammates, etc. Its not easy to go from being the go-to guy on a team for 5 years, to just being one of the guys on a new team.
5 games is a terribly short timeframe in which to pass judgement on Kaberle. I expect by the playoffs we'll see what he can do. And even then, if nothing happens, I still expect he'll be very good with whatever team he signs with next year. |
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Guest2763
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Posted - 03/02/2011 : 17:02:31
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| I think you may be overlooking the most important stat and that is the Bruins are 5-0 with him in the lineup. He never will be expected to lead this team to victory, just do his part keep things going in the right direction. I will say that he is expected to contibute offenceively, just that he doesn't have to be the go to guy. |
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ToXXiK1
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
696 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2011 : 03:27:51
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| I'm not the biggest Kabby fan and wasn't in favor of this trade, but, even I am giving the guy more than 5 games to prove his metal. Are you kidding? Judging after 5 games? 5 winning games? I've watched all the games and even though he hasn't massed the points, he's holding his own. Chara is loading up every power play and it's just a matter of time before holes are blown through the mesh. He's exactly what they wanted, a guy to feed Chara and a 1st pass Dman. Were you expecting him to take over the Norris race or something? |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2011 : 04:52:22
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You are way off.
1) The Bruins are 5-0 with Kaberle.
2) Kaberle has one assist in his first five games playing with guys he has never played with before.
3) The Bruins, while a very good team, have had a brutal power play for a contender, and this is a key area where offensive d-men pick up points.
Give it the rest of the season, then watch the playoffs . . . then make a judgement.
Kaberle is in no way overrated - in fact, I think he was underrated on the Leafs before Burke began "selling" him.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Guest2872
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Posted - 03/03/2011 : 05:06:58
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I am neither a Bruins fan nor a Leafs fan. In fact I am a Flyer fan who hates the Leafs for continuing to make the Bruins stronger through trades!!
Having said that I think Kaberle is the perfect piece for Boston and if anything underrated....I would never trade him for Jeff Carter mind you....but underrated. I tuned in to watch a Bruins game just to see how Kaberle was fitting in and on ONE power play Chara had 6 shots directed on net!!!! It is only a matter of time before he starts adding up the points
Damn you Brian Burke! |
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JonPolley
Top Prospect
Canada
49 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2011 : 05:40:28
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| the Pevely Vabolik trade did them better..... imo |
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Guest2712
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Posted - 03/03/2011 : 10:06:23
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having Kaberle QB your PP only means one thing: cover everyone else because he won't shoot the puck!
or just have someone shadow Chara the entire two mins. once he's covered Kabby won't know what else to do.... |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2011 : 10:54:37
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Exactly right guest. That is why Kaberle has more assists on the PP than any other defenseman not named Lidstrom or Johnson. It's because of all the lethal point shots and goals from the TO PP???
Head, shake, now. |
Edited by - Beans15 on 03/03/2011 10:55:23 |
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Guest7752
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Posted - 03/03/2011 : 11:10:25
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All good points - I understand I'm not giving him much time...
Also of note however, when looking a recent bigger name trades:
McCabe = 1 pt / 2 games
Boyes = 1 pt / 1 game
Lupul = 5 pt / 10 games
Arnott = 1 pt / 1 game
Klesla = 1 pt / 1 game
Upshall = 1 pt / 1 game
Kaberle = 1 pt / 5 games |
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ToXXiK1
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
696 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2011 : 11:17:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest7752
All good points - I understand I'm not giving him much time...
Also of note however, when looking a recent bigger name trades:
McCabe = 1 pt / 2 games
Boyes = 1 pt / 1 game
Lupul = 5 pt / 10 games
Arnott = 1 pt / 1 game
Klesla = 1 pt / 1 game
Upshall = 1 pt / 1 game
Kaberle = 1 pt / 5 games
And 4 out of your 7 are forwards, point? |
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Guest7752
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Posted - 03/03/2011 : 11:23:00
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quote:
Originally posted by ToXXiK1
quote:
Originally posted by Guest7752
All good points - I understand I'm not giving him much time...
Also of note however, when looking a recent bigger name trades:
McCabe = 1 pt / 2 games
Boyes = 1 pt / 1 game
Lupul = 5 pt / 10 games
Arnott = 1 pt / 1 game
Klesla = 1 pt / 1 game
Upshall = 1 pt / 1 game
Kaberle = 1 pt / 5 games
And 4 out of your 7 are forwards, point?
kabby was 0.5 point per game man on a weak team - he should be there or better on a stronger team. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2011 : 11:48:48
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quote:
kabby was 0.5 point per game man on a weak team - he should be there or better on a stronger team.
So, its OK to quote an average built over the last 7 years, and then to mark him as "over-rated" when he doesn't fulfill that average over the last 5 games? Seriously, dude... |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2011 : 15:35:10
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Also, 6 of your guys have played less than the 5 games Kaberle has. Run those same numbers in about 10 days and see if those players have any more points.
This argument is absurd. 5 games to measure against a players performance for the past 5+ years?? |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2011 : 15:43:18
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5 games in... really ahhahaha
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
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Seventy7Fifty2
Top Prospect
69 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2011 : 12:49:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Pasty7
5 games in... really ahhahaha
"I led the league in "Go get 'em next time." - Bob Uecker
Hold on, before tihngs get out of hand...
My point was more towards Kaberle being over rated based on the "immediate impact" points which newly traded players tend to accumulate during first few games...
I used stats based on a few games & more or less major players...
Both D-Men and Forwards were used to show "immediate impact" points.
I showed Kaberle's past records to clearly show that he is a proven 0.5 point per game man.
Even goalies could be used for this comparison... someone like Anderson, maybe... now that's immediate impact.
I'll re-post same players and their respective points after about 10 games or so...
I'll bet Kaberle will continue to be at the bottom of the list... |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2011 : 14:37:04
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quote:
I'll re-post same players and their respective points after about 10 games or so...
I'll bet Kaberle will continue to be at the bottom of the list...
And it will still make as much sense as it does now.
You have invented something called "immediate impact points", and are trying to use it to justify your underlying belief argument that Kaberle is over-rated. What you are missing is that every player and situation are different, and really cannot be compared.
For every player that has sudden great success with their new team, there are scads of others that have a drop in performance, or continue on as they were. Different players take different times to adjust to new teams/teammates. Some players are on hot streaks when they are traded, and continue those hot streaks, but then drop off. Some are on cold streaks, and either continue to be cold or suddenly take off (your "impact point" theory). Others just keep doing what they were doing before. Everyone is different. |
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ryan93
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
996 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2011 : 15:42:52
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Immediate Impact Points eh.
For every Chris Stewart (6 goals in 8 games with St.Louis) there is a James Neal (0 points in 4 games with Pittsburgh). Every player/team/scenerio is different. |
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Guest0012
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Posted - 03/04/2011 : 17:24:54
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quote:
Originally posted by ryan93
Immediate Impact Points eh.
For every Chris Stewart (6 goals in 8 games with St.Louis) there is a James Neal (0 points in 4 games with Pittsburgh). Every player/team/scenerio is different.
What were Chris Stewart's and James Neal's points with their previous teams? Curious to know if this guy's post here has some backbone.
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OILINONTARIO
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
816 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2011 : 17:47:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest0012
quote:
Originally posted by ryan93
Immediate Impact Points eh.
For every Chris Stewart (6 goals in 8 games with St.Louis) there is a James Neal (0 points in 4 games with Pittsburgh). Every player/team/scenerio is different.
What were Chris Stewart's and James Neal's points with their previous teams? Curious to know if this guy's post here has some backbone.
If neither had changed teams, and each had recorded the same in the respective 8 and 4 games, instead of Immediate Impact Points, we would be discussing Contemporary Status Quo Impact Points. And that would get pretty boring real quick.
The Oil WILL make the playoffs in 2012. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2011 : 17:48:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest0012
quote:
Originally posted by ryan93
Immediate Impact Points eh.
For every Chris Stewart (6 goals in 8 games with St.Louis) there is a James Neal (0 points in 4 games with Pittsburgh). Every player/team/scenerio is different.
What were Chris Stewart's and James Neal's points with their previous teams? Curious to know if this guy's post here has some backbone.
James Neal GP-59 G-21 A-18 PTS-39 (in Dallas)
0 goals 0 assist for 0 points with Pittsburgh
Chris Stewart GP-36 G-13 A-17 PTS-30 (in Colorado)
6 goals 2 assists for 8pts in 8 games with St. Louis
I'd agree, every player and every situation is different. It's also early to compare these guys especially considering Crosby and Malkin have both been missing! However, Stewart appeared to be having a slightly better season (until his injury) but judging these guys this early it difficult too.
Some guys simply "click" and / or fit in better in their new environment than others. This doesn't necessarily mean Neal won't find success in Pittsburgh. Remember Tomas Fleischmann and the success he had when traded to Colorado? Different guy, different situation!
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2011 : 19:02:59
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HEY! Craig Rivet scored in his CBJ debut tonight! Does that make him better than Kaberle?  |
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Seventy7Fifty2
Top Prospect
69 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2011 : 07:08:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
HEY! Craig Rivet scored in his CBJ debut tonight! Does that make him better than Kaberle?
We're talking bigger name trades here.
Rivet wasn't one that was touted by his GM as being abel to walk on water.
Neither are the other two guys you are comparing numbers with. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2011 : 09:59:22
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quote:
Neither are the other two guys you are comparing numbers with.
Yeah. James Neal, Chris Stewart. Just a couple of bit players really...  I'm sure no one has any expectations for those two... |
Edited by - nuxfan on 03/05/2011 09:59:58 |
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Guest0012
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Posted - 03/05/2011 : 10:21:08
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quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
quote:
Neither are the other two guys you are comparing numbers with.
Yeah. James Neal, Chris Stewart. Just a couple of bit players really... I'm sure no one has any expectations for those two...
you're wrong... kaberle got tons of media attention - these 2 did not receive same attention |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2011 : 10:29:00
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quote:
you're wrong... kaberle got tons of media attention - these 2 did not receive same attention
I didn't think I needed to wrap my comments in [sarcasm] tags...
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Edited by - nuxfan on 03/05/2011 10:30:26 |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2011 : 11:18:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest0012
you're wrong... kaberle got tons of media attention - these 2 did not receive same attention
Maybe because Kaberle has been "on the block" for over two freakin' years! Aside from that, i can tell you this much, the trades involving Neal and Stewart were discussed by media both TV and radio as much (if not more) than the Kaberle deal! These two trades involved young, up and coming stars in the game and were totally surprising as no one saw either deal coming! The fact that it was known that Kaberle was quite likely to be moved, made that deal less important as far as the media reports. Not sure what radio/tv you listen to / watch??? |
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Guest2755
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Posted - 03/06/2011 : 08:18:39
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| I think Kaberle's goaltending ability is extremely underrated. |
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Guest7752
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Posted - 03/07/2011 : 12:21:53
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Alex116 and nuxfan:
Go read up on this, on NHL.com
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=555187
You may want to hone in on the Kaberle piece.
I guess I was too ahead of YOUR time for you to understand what I was putting forward.
And by the way - here's an update on the points... you guys don't need to read on - you won't get it.
McCabe = 2 pt / 5 games
Boyes = 4 pt / 4 games
Lupul = 6 pt / 12 games
Arnott = 2 pt / 3 games
Klesla = 1 pt / 3 games
Upshall = 2 pt / 3 games
Kaberle = 1 pt / 7 games |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2011 : 12:47:50
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no, I understand what you're putting forward - that you think Kaberle is overrated because he hasn't scored 4 points in the 8 games (his career average) that he has played for BOS, and therefore BOS overpaid for his services. However:
- Labeling Kaberle as "over-rated", based on 7 games he has played out of a 10 year career is ludicrous. Kaberle has been pretty streaky throughout his career - feel free to look at his current season stats (http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nhl/players/1790/gamelog _ylt=Am_AiAMsfZUnX9JCjIT2KhTCfgM6), you will find a lot of stretches of 5-15 games where he gets a point or two over that stretch, and more than one 5-game stretch where he gets 0. In other words, a 5 game scoreless drought, or a couple of points over 7-10 games, is not unusual for Kaberle.
- "Immediate impact points" are simply a measure you made up (by looking at other players that moved), and then tried to apply to justify your belief that Kaberle is over-rated. IE, they don't exist as an actual statistic, except perhaps in the minds of journalists who are paid to make up stuff like that so they have something to write about.
The article you posted is simply reporting the facts as they are - Kaberle has 1 point in his games in BOS. Did you notice that the article goes on to state that BOS has won 6-of-7 since Kaberle moved there? (hint - sometimes "impact" is not measured in "points"). Nowhere in that article was Kaberle referred to as "over rated". |
Edited by - nuxfan on 03/07/2011 12:48:31 |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2011 : 13:05:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest7752
Alex116 and nuxfan:
Go read up on this, on NHL.com
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=555187
You may want to hone in on the Kaberle piece.
I guess I was too ahead of YOUR time for you to understand what I was putting forward.
And by the way - here's an update on the points... you guys don't need to read on - you won't get it.
McCabe = 2 pt / 5 games
Boyes = 4 pt / 4 games
Lupul = 6 pt / 12 games
Arnott = 2 pt / 3 games
Klesla = 1 pt / 3 games
Upshall = 2 pt / 3 games
Kaberle = 1 pt / 7 games
Well said, you couldn't be more correct! If it's not what nuxfan just said, then you're right, i haven't a clue what you were "putting forward". AND, after reading that article, i have even less of a clue! What that article and those numbers you threw out there have to do with proving or disproving that Kaberle is overrated, is way beyond me. Please excuse me for my stupidity.  |
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Guest7752
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Posted - 03/07/2011 : 13:35:30
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quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
The article you posted is simply reporting the facts as they are - Kaberle has 1 point in his games in BOS. Did you notice that the article goes on to state that BOS has won 6-of-7 since Kaberle moved there? (hint - sometimes "impact" is not measured in "points"). Nowhere in that article was Kaberle referred to as "over rated".
How have the Leafs been doing without him?
Please, do tell... |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2011 : 14:32:36
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quote:
How have the Leafs been doing without him?
So what, now Kaberle was a cancer for the Maple Leafs? That they are currently thriving because he is no longer with them?
Look, you obviously have your mind made up about Kaberle - based on the last 7 games, you've seen the following:
- Kaberle go to BOS and get 1 point, despite other trade deadline players getting more points with their new teams
- TOR win a bunch of games
And deduced that Kaberle is probably over-rated and not worth the value that TOR got back. However, you conveniently want to leave out little facts like:
- BOS has won 6-of-7 with Kaberle in the lineup
- Kaberle has become the #2 PP dman for BOS, and is playing an average of 20 minutes a game.
- Kaberle is well above his season +/- at +3 with BOS - and only in 7 games no less!
- while TOR has gone on a tear without Kaberle, they've also done the same without Versteeg. Perhaps Versteeg was overrated and really not a very good player too? Perhaps Versteeg was the real cancer for TOR?
Like I said initially - see where he is at the end of the year, or even the end of the playoffs, and then make a decision as to whether he's really as good as he has been in all his years as a Leaf. |
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2011 : 14:49:04
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Boston`s powerplay is 1 for 17....since aquiring kaberle...
wonder if the fans are chanting TO`s famous chant yet ??...SHOOOOOOOOOOT
People call him a powerplay specialist...all i know is that Toronto`s powerplay has been ranked between 25 th and dead last in the league for a decade !!!
Not saying its all kaberle but he surely didn`t boost up TO`s numbers. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2011 : 06:06:27
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Duke - your analysis is brutal, my friend.
You ask how has Toronto's power play been without Kaberle, and you miss the obvious answer: terribly.
The Leafs power play was poor before, now it stinks, and it was the one thing I knew would take a big hit when Kaberle left. We need a skilled puck-mover to come into the zone, and a skilled passer for the skilled plays on the pp - the quick passes, dekes, vision to see a play, etc.
Don't worry about Boston's power play . . . it will never be the same without Savard, or until they replace him. But Kaberle does improve it, it just takes time for those sorts of things. Any specialty unit that relies on knowing where the other players go and what their tendencies are relies on a bit more playing experience and practice before it starts to click.
But this argument is potentially hopeless, as you clearly never liked Kabby.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Guest7752
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Posted - 03/09/2011 : 10:33:37
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quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
quote:
How have the Leafs been doing without him?
So what, now Kaberle was a cancer for the Maple Leafs? That they are currently thriving because he is no longer with them?
Look, you obviously have your mind made up about Kaberle - based on the last 7 games, you've seen the following:
- Kaberle go to BOS and get 1 point, despite other trade deadline players getting more points with their new teams
- TOR win a bunch of games
And deduced that Kaberle is probably over-rated and not worth the value that TOR got back. However, you conveniently want to leave out little facts like:
- BOS has won 6-of-7 with Kaberle in the lineup
- Kaberle has become the #2 PP dman for BOS, and is playing an average of 20 minutes a game.
- Kaberle is well above his season +/- at +3 with BOS - and only in 7 games no less!
- while TOR has gone on a tear without Kaberle, they've also done the same without Versteeg. Perhaps Versteeg was overrated and really not a very good player too? Perhaps Versteeg was the real cancer for TOR?
Like I said initially - see where he is at the end of the year, or even the end of the playoffs, and then make a decision as to whether he's really as good as he has been in all his years as a Leaf.
Who are you to inform people of when thier minds were made up and how?
And now - we cannot dicuss this any further until YOU say so, that is, until the end of the year?
Wow - nice, however a strange way of discussing topics.
My post was a question to the viewers - is he over-rated or not, and I believe he is. I didn't mention cancers, Versteeg, or over-pay... where are you getting that?
You obvioulsy have other reasons for posting, so keep those other reasons out of this please.
Stop posting if you've said you're piece.
A power play specialist was hired (or I should say "rented") by Boston for injecting some new energy immediately on this team, as they continue to be struggling with scoring. They did not hire him for long term results. They do not want to wait for playoffs, and do not want to wait for next season.
It seems an over-rated player may have been hired.
He proved it once again last night... |
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2011 : 17:10:15
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Slozo how can you say my analysis is brutal ?? What facts do you have to back this up ?? If you have them post them and back up your comments.
Sure Toronto`s powerplay is brutal since kaberle has left, it was brutal while he was there !!!.....its just a bit more brutal... What season was it not patethic ?? Please post the seasons since the lock - out Toronto had a good powerplay ( with kaberle ) so i can analyize your rebuttal.
Name me 2 seasons in the last 5 - 6 years ( even 1 ) when TO`s powerplay was not dead last or damn close to dead last with kaberle in the line - up ...can you ?
If you can`t do this, then you have no arguement with no facts.
I know kaberle brought the puck into the zone for the leafs...i`m not stupid, but bringing it in the zone and putting the puck in the net is 2 diffrent things. I think when kaberle scored for the leafs approx. 3 - 4 weeks ago it was his first goal in 12 - 14 calender months...thats a lot of powerplay time my friend.
kaberle has been only gone for a couple of weeks....whats Toronto`s powerplay ranked this year ?? i`m not sure but if its better than 25 th the moon is made of green cheese, bet its closer to 30th againnnnnn.
I`m sure Thomas kaberle is a real gentleman, kind man, and an overall great person ( i`m very serious )....but as an hockey player he is a major p**** who hits like a school girl and constantly stands around watching real hockey players tap the puck into his own net....and yes, i`m not sorry he is gone.
p.s...i know its early and kaberle just joined a new team and its still early to judge...blah, blah blah......since his arrival to Boston ( on 17 tries ) their powerplay owns a whopping 5 . 8 %...wow, what an early impact !!!!
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2011 : 18:01:50
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quote:
Originally posted by The Duke
I`m sure Thomas kaberle is a real gentleman, kind man, and an overall great person ( i`m very serious )....but as an hockey player he is a major p**** who hits like a school girl and constantly stands around watching real hockey players tap the puck into his own net....and yes, i`m not sorry he is gone.
Well, i have to say, regardless of whether or not he's over rated, this paragraph you wrote pretty much sums up your knowledge of hockey. You've basically just stated that he's all but useless. Correct me if i'm wrong, but that's what i get from your evaluation of Tomas Kaberle.
So, let's take a closer look at his career......
12 seasons (and counting) in the NHL
4 all star selections
3 time Olympian
3 World Championship appearances
1 World Cup of Hockey appearance
1 WJC appearance
An NHL career avg of nealy 50pts a season (on many brutal Leaf teams)
And this, in your mind, equals a "major p**** who hits like a school girl and constantly stands around watching real hockey players tap the puck into his own net"? Well, i guess Peter Chiarelli (and any other GM's who made offers) must be complete morons for wanting this guy? You should apply for their jobs, because if you're correct in your evaluation, they'll be fired soon.
At least 7752 has a sane argument here with some numbers to back up his opinion.
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2011 : 07:47:47
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I posted a response to this Kaberle gibberish in another thread but it was completely ignored.
Duke, directly at you, please argue these 'facts' as you like to call them:
At the time of the trade(and even today), Kaberle had 22 PP assist, which was good for a tie for 3rd among defensemen in the league behind only Lidstrom and Jack Johnson.
Here is the PP assist numbers for defensemen for the past 5 years.
2009/2010- Leader M. Green with 25. Kaberle tied for 5th with 22
2008-2009 -Leader A. Markov with 32. Kabere 25th with 19 having played in just 57 games
2007-2008 - Leader S. Gonchar with 38. Kaberle 6th with 24.
2006/2007 - Leader S. Gonchar with 38. Kabere 6th with 28
2005/2006 - Leader T. Kaberle with 45.
So, in the past 5 seasons the terrible Tomas Kaberle finished lower than 6th only because an injury shortened season and also has the highest single season assist totals among defensemen. When looking specifically at the Leafs over the same period of time, Kaberle lead the team in PP points in 3 of the 5 years. In 06/07 Sudin and McCabe tied for the team lead with 34 points (Kaberle had 30) and in 08/09 he finished 3 points behind Kubina in a season when he played on 57 games.
If you were to say that Kaberle is not a great 5-5 player, I might agree. If you were to say is nothing more than average or even below average defensively, I could agree with that too. But to fault him for how pathetic the Leafs PP is or say he is not one of the top 10 PP defensemen in the NHL today??? Seriously, that like calling the sky green. It's simply not true.
Gonna ignore this one too??
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Seventy7Fifty2
Top Prospect
69 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2011 : 08:37:58
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He's accumulated these numbers you show while on the Leafs teams on those years - he was the only decent player there and was on 99.9% of the power plays - so obviously compiled good points/numbers.
Now that Keberle is on a "better" team - he does not stand out as he did with those Leaf teams.
That's how this post started.... maybe he's over-rated because he was the only decent player on a weak team.
Now that he's on a better team - he does not stand out as much. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2011 : 10:05:52
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Possible Mr Seven, but that doesn't make him over-rated. That makes him a big fish in a small pond of talent in TO and the same sized fish as the others in Boston. Ultimately, the fact that he can be as productive in the setting he was in proves he is not over-rated. There are other players that people consider PP specialist that have not been able to produce in weak environments (McCabe with FLA, Visnovsky in EDM as a few examples), yet Kaberle produced near the top of the league for 5 seasons on one of the worst PP's in the league during that time. Imagine the Leaf PP without Kaberle's 30-50 points a season??
The only thing that will settle this arguement is time. Let's look at this at the end of the playoffs. |
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Topic |
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T. Kaberle - Over Rated? 
