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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
 Posted - 03/10/2011 : 16:12:46
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Beans what the hell are you trying to prove by posting all these kaberle god like stats...putting him up on a pedestal.
It was only 2 weeks ago you said he would only fetch maybe a 2nd round pick at deadline day !!!!! remember ??
It was me who said Burke would get a great return for kaberle, which he did. I read all posts ( besides yours too ) regarding the return for kaberle and no - one thought kaberle would bring back to the leafs what they received...other than myself.
This just proves that i was not downing kaberles talents, i just don`t like his style of play and a lot of people i talk hockey to agree....then again some people i talk to love kaberle....so its a matter of opinion.
Slozo, if i didn`t see any value what - so - ever in kaberle i wouldn`t have posted that TO would have gotten so much in return for him. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2011 : 16:30:25
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quote:
Originally posted by The Duke
Beans what the hell are you trying to prove by posting all these kaberle god like stats...putting him up on a pedestal.
It was only 2 weeks ago you said he would only fetch maybe a 2nd round pick at deadline day !!!!! remember ??
It was me who said Burke would get a great return for kaberle, which he did. I read all posts ( besides yours too ) regarding the return for kaberle and no - one thought kaberle would bring back to the leafs what they received...other than myself.
This just proves that i was not downing kaberles talents, i just don`t like his style of play and a lot of people i talk hockey to agree....then again some people i talk to love kaberle....so its a matter of opinion.
Slozo, if i didn`t see any value what - so - ever in kaberle i wouldn`t have posted that TO would have gotten so much in return for him.
Is it just me, or do you constantly contradict yourself Duke? If you truly thought that Burke would get as good a return as he did, then how is that Kaberle is a " major p**** who blah blah blah....."???
BTW, Beans, and others including myself, predicting that Burke would get less than he did had nothing to do with his skill level and everything to do with the time it took him to deal him, his possible rental status as a UFA and his limited teams to deal with due to his NTC! If you don't understand that, then it makes sense why you argue the way you do.  |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2011 : 17:13:10
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Duke, are you Chubby Checker, because you sure like to twist.
Twist my words on what the value of a player is at the trade deadline into that being what I think a player can and can not do.
Twist the story away from the information at hand.
Twist your opinion to something else when you get called on something you can not defend.
I never, ever, in my nearly 6000 posts did anything to undervalue or understate Kaberle as one of the best puck moving defensemen and best PP specialist defensemen in the game. Ever.
Still, after posting twice on the actual performance of Tomas Kaberle on that morbid Leafs PP have you been able to argue those actual points. Your original point was that Kaberle is not a great PP specialist because he did not score many goals and because the Leafs have had one of the worst PP in the NHL over the past 5ish years. I don't need to go back and re-post your quotes to prove that do I?? |
Edited by - Beans15 on 03/10/2011 17:14:56 |
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Guest7752
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Posted - 03/14/2011 : 07:49:00
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Here's another update by the way...
McCabe = 2 pt / 7 games
Boyes = 7 pt / 8 games
Lupul = 8 pt / 15 games
Arnott = 5 pt / 7 games
Klesla = 1 pt / 4 games
Upshall = 3 pt / 7 games
Kaberle = 2 pt / 10 games
Kabby: the great puck mover, PP specialist, massive PP ice-time, etc.... what has he done to help the B's on scoring (something he was hired specifically for) ??
Over-rated?? |
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Guest5269
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Posted - 03/14/2011 : 16:37:50
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Duncan Keith only has one point in his last 5 games. Further, he went for a stretch of 10 games in November with only a single point, and had another one stretching between December and January.
Duncan Keith: Over-rated??
Or
Poster: selectively making deductions from minuscule sample sizes, and attempting to use those to characterize a player's entire career?
I think I'll go with the latter. Oh, and 7752, you would make your case less transparent if you didn't keep comparing Kaberle's results primarily with the results of forwards. Your trade-deadline criteria is not compelling. |
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Seventy7Fifty2
Top Prospect
69 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2011 : 18:21:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest5269
Duncan Keith only has one point in his last 5 games. Further, he went for a stretch of 10 games in November with only a single point, and had another one stretching between December and January.
Duncan Keith: Over-rated??
Or
Poster: selectively making deductions from minuscule sample sizes, and attempting to use those to characterize a player's entire career?
I think I'll go with the latter. Oh, and 7752, you would make your case less transparent if you didn't keep comparing Kaberle's results primarily with the results of forwards. Your trade-deadline criteria is not compelling.
You're kidding, right?
Was Duncan Keith just traded? This is about recent trades and why these trades were made. Was Keith just traded for what he brings to his new team?
Read the entire topic before responding to only one post and making these comments.
And oh - you may even learn something. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2011 : 19:46:23
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7752.......keep in mind, Kaberle, as has been mentioned, avg's over 40 pts a season over a 12 year career. He went 1 games earlier this season with just 3 points during one stretch and 9 games with only 2. I'm not saying he's about to do so, but all he'd need to do is score a couple pts in back to back games and he'd be close to his career pace.
Also, this is just talking about points. I have seen him play in Boston so i don't know but perhaps his overall game is good? I'm only focusing on the points because it seems that's what your topic is doing (focusing on the theory that Boston traded for him for his offense / pp skills). |
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Guest4278
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Posted - 03/14/2011 : 20:36:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Seventy7Fifty2
Was Duncan Keith just traded? This is about recent trades and why these trades were made. Was Keith just traded for what he brings to his new team?
Here are the defencemen of some offensive accumen traded this year, there maybe more but I can't think of any more of the top of my head:
Kaberle: 2 pts/10games
McCabe: 2 pts/7games
Shattenkirk: 6 pts/13games
Goligoski: 8 pts/10games
Johnson: 5 pts/10games
What does this say? It says defensemen in the west are doing very well in their new teams. Defensemen in the east, not so much.
Do you still think Kaberle is overrated? Would you trade Kaberle for any of the others above (assuming they all had the same contract and duration)? With exception of Johnson, I would take your trade any day of the week.
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Guest5269
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Posted - 03/15/2011 : 13:53:12
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No I'm not kidding at all. I actually have read the entire topic: you claim Kaberle is overrated, seemingly because his ppg with the Bruins thus far is below his career ppg. The argument appears to be that Kaberle's numbers were artificially inflated because of he was playing on a bad team, and thus may have been given more of a pivotal role than he would have on more talented teams.
I countered by arguing that the evidence that you used to underpin your argument is wanting: you want to take Kaberle's performance over a relatively short span of time as proof of your conclusion. To illustrate that a 5 or 10 game span is not a large enough sample to judge a player, I used the defending Norris trophy winner as an example. The fact that he has not recently been involved in a trade is not particularly relevant: my point wasn't that Keith has been exposed to changing conditions that might indicate that he was over or underrated, but that even a player of his caliber could go through a comparable stretch of games being comparably unproductive.
I thought all of that should have been relatively clear the first time... |
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Guest7752
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Posted - 03/16/2011 : 12:32:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest5269
No I'm not kidding at all. I actually have read the entire topic: you claim Kaberle is overrated, seemingly because his ppg with the Bruins thus far is below his career ppg. The argument appears to be that Kaberle's numbers were artificially inflated because of he was playing on a bad team, and thus may have been given more of a pivotal role than he would have on more talented teams.
I countered by arguing that the evidence that you used to underpin your argument is wanting: you want to take Kaberle's performance over a relatively short span of time as proof of your conclusion. To illustrate that a 5 or 10 game span is not a large enough sample to judge a player, I used the defending Norris trophy winner as an example. The fact that he has not recently been involved in a trade is not particularly relevant: my point wasn't that Keith has been exposed to changing conditions that might indicate that he was over or underrated, but that even a player of his caliber could go through a comparable stretch of games being comparably unproductive.
I thought all of that should have been relatively clear the first time...
Kaberle was hired for short-term results - not a long term project.
Since he is now in Boston for short term RESULTS - has has obviously failed, so he may have been over-rated.
I don't think B's want to wait a season or two for any results from him. Most of the end-of-contract players are usually hired for short term results to help the new team finish strong and/or help in playoffs. This is what most the others on my list are indeed doing. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2011 : 14:29:40
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7752.....Here's the thing. Perhaps it's you calling him over rated that has some of us disagreeing. I don't know how a guy can perform as well as he did on a weak team for as long and consistently as he did and be considered over rated. Again, it comes down to what you expect(ed) of him (as in how you "rated" him).
How 'bout this.....Is Kaberle UNDER PERFORMING? To that, i wouldn't argue a "yes". Even with that, i haven't seen him play but def points wise, he is "under performing".
Also, as was mentioned when he was traded, it is quite possible that the Bruins have already agreed to a contract with him otherwise, they gave up way too much for a rental! |
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Seventy7Fifty2
Top Prospect
69 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2011 : 18:48:48
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To those who posted "let's wait and see his worth during the playoffs..."
YEP - he's WAY over-rated. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 05/04/2011 : 19:41:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Seventy7Fifty2
To those who posted "let's wait and see his worth during the playoffs..."
YEP - he's WAY over-rated.
The Sedin's are not playing as well as they did in the regular season either, are they over rated?? Luongo, a Vezina trophy finalist was pulled twice in the first series and didn't start game 6, is he over-rated?? What about Backstrom and Semin from Washington, them too??
What, exactly, is the argument that Tomas Kaberle is on of the top 3 most prolific defensemen for PP points since the lock out on a team with the worst PP in the league??
How does that work????
Ignorance is bliss isn't it. |
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Seventy7Fifty2
Top Prospect
69 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2011 : 17:43:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
quote:
Originally posted by Seventy7Fifty2
To those who posted "let's wait and see his worth during the playoffs..."
YEP - he's WAY over-rated.
The Sedin's are not playing as well as they did in the regular season either, are they over rated?? Luongo, a Vezina trophy finalist was pulled twice in the first series and didn't start game 6, is he over-rated?? What about Backstrom and Semin from Washington, them too??
What, exactly, is the argument that Tomas Kaberle is on of the top 3 most prolific defensemen for PP points since the lock out on a team with the worst PP in the league??
How does that work????
Ignorance is bliss isn't it.
You're right.... but don't be too hard on yourself.
The Sedin's have been in Vancouver for a while - they literaly BROUGHT the team to where they are today
Luongo - same story
Backstrom / Semin - Washington would not even be playing in playoffs year after year without these too.
But as for Kaberle - he was brought in to Boston to help them get over the hump and be their go to guy on the Blue Line and PP's.... He did nothing to bring the B's to where they are today. Huge Failure i guess - what is their percentage on PP so far in playoffs??....
But don't be too hard on yourself... ignorant is a strong word to label oneself... just cause you don't know how these things work
Maybe you're just overreacting a little cause the truth hurts? |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 05/05/2011 : 17:52:07
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Yeah, huge failure. They are one game from the East Final. Can believe what kind of failure that would be. If they go to the Cup, is that a failure too??? Heck, if they win the Cup, that must be the biggest Epic Fail in the history of hockey.
Yep, the truth does hurt.
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Guest7752
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Posted - 05/06/2011 : 11:21:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Yeah, huge failure. They are one game from the East Final. Can believe what kind of failure that would be. If they go to the Cup, is that a failure too??? Heck, if they win the Cup, that must be the biggest Epic Fail in the history of hockey.
Yep, the truth does hurt.
Kaberle is the Failure - not the Bruins... I guess English was not your favorite subject in school |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 05/06/2011 : 12:08:40
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| Nope, my favorite subject was winning. I got straight A's in that subject. Reason being is that I realized at a young age that a TEAM wins and individuals lose. I also learned at a young age that the contributing to a team means more than the numbers that you put up. |
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2011 : 09:48:59
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Beans you tell me that i write some foolishness sometimes !!!!! I enjoy a lot of your posts and agree with the majority of what you write.
Guest 7752 makes very valid points againist your kaberle analysis, and its 100 % true what he wrote and you come back with some jibberish about what you learned in grade school. He is right....Boston is a winning team, they don`t need kaberles soft play.
Earlier on in this forum everyone said i contradicted myself when i wrote i don`t like kaberle but said Burke will get a great return for him. Yes, i agree this reads like a contradicting statement.
I really do not and never did like kaberle ( i also know other leaf fans who can`t stand kaberle )...but...i know some more leaf fans who love kaberle, i see some hockey analysist who constantly praise kaberle. This is the reason i wrote Burke would get a great return for kaberle, not for what i saw in him ....but for what other people ( for whatever reason, we all have an opinion ) saw in him.
Thers lots of guys in the league like kaberle, they put up great numbers in the regular season but come playoff time...when the goin gets rough....where are they ??
In kaberles case, the numbers are fine, great maybe. Thats not my problem with him, its his defensive play...the hitting, grinding, soft play ( especially in front of his net ), brutal.
I don`t like players like Semin, Backstrom, Kovalev, Zherdev, Jokinen, ....etc...you see where i`m going. Even the Sedin twins aren`t exactly pushing the Canucks deep into the playoffs, they can thank R.Kesler and Burrow type players for that.
On my playoff team, give me a M. Richards, C.Perry, R. Getzlaf, M. St.Louis, M.Lucic, D.Buff... anyday over these non - aggressive pretty boys. |
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Seventy7Fifty2
Top Prospect
69 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2011 : 17:57:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Nope, my favorite subject was winning. I got straight A's in that subject. Reason being is that I realized at a young age that a TEAM wins and individuals lose. I also learned at a young age that the contributing to a team means more than the numbers that you put up.
What do your comments have to do with Kaberle being over-rated? Wow... you must have never participated in any debates in your winning school.
I suggest you brush up on your reading and English skills, AND that you stop listening to Charlie Sheen. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2011 : 06:14:44
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Hey 7752, me, Charlie Sheen, Boston, and now Tomas Kaberle all have one things in common.
WINNING!!!!
I can read and understand english just fine. If someone wants to throw complete rubbish comments(such as Kaberle is the Failure - not the Bruins... I guess English was not your favorite subject in school) at an arguement rather than rebut with something intelligent and tangible, than they will get the same in return.
I guess I am not the only who who never participated in debates???? Oh, wait. I did participate in debates. But I Charlie Sheen'd them all!!
WINNING!!!!!! |
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Seventy7Fifty2
Top Prospect
69 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2011 : 12:19:57
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Job job - well done, very intelligent responses with very intelligent facts you put out there...
nohing more one can say |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2011 : 14:11:48
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Like I said, I give what I get. I hear all this crap about how bad Kaberle is and how over-rated he is, I bring some very tangile arguments to the table (production over the past 5 seasons on a very poor team) and I hear nothing back. Then, over a short period of time and Kaberle does not produce and all the nay-sayers come out of the woodwork. But still, no one has an argument on how such an over-rated, garbage player can produce more than just about any other defensemen in the league on the worst PP over the same amount of time.
You are right, there is nothing left to say.
WINNING!!!! |
Edited by - Beans15 on 05/08/2011 14:13:15 |
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2011 : 20:14:21
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Yes Beans kaberle has produced big numbers in the past, stats don`t lie. What is he producing right now ? Boston is more concerned with his present and future stats than his past stats.
Kaberle`s earlier career numbers aren`t helping the Bruins today.
Boston`s powerplay is simply brutal since the insertion of kaberle....as was Toronto`s...for the past 10 - 12 seasons. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2011 : 08:15:11
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Does anyone thinks for a second that Boston has a concern with anyone's stats??? What about winning??? The Cup doesn't have the scoring leader or the winning teams power play % etched on it. Kaberle has only one less point taht Chara, but know one is saying he is over-rated, are they??
No doubt about it, Kaberle's recent play is going to impact his pocketbook in about 2 months. Be it with Boston or some other team. But the bottom line is Winning is the only thing that matters. If Boston wins the Cup, every decision they made this year was right. Every single one. |
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Mario 66
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
360 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2011 : 08:48:33
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Beans & I have been at each other's throat before, but this time some of your arguements have me completely dumb founded. How some of your are attempting to throw him under the bus for responding to your comments in the same acriminous / cantankerous way you where with his is beyond me.
Dion Phaneuf finally producing for two months after about 3 yrs of being Inept & anemic and every one is prepared for him to be the next Scott Stevens like he was originally touted & Kaberle after 10 yrs of quality hockey now sucks after two months of inefficency? Anybody else see a problem with these mindsets?
If many of you are the superstars in your work place & then get a new job or new position is there not a transition period where you adjust to the new job & all it entails?? Hmmmm I don't know maybe the way Kaberle would have to adjust to a new pp set up, a new team philosophy, etc. It simply amazes me how quick we are to write somebody off when they start to drop off, but we are so optimistic & patient with a player & people when they show flashes of brilliance.
No, Kaberle offensively has not been the dynamic player the Bruins had hoped for, but Thomas sucked the hind tit last yr & Seguin did not come in and tear the league apart as they had hoped as well? Should they have disposed of Thomas before the season & send the other two back to Toronto because they have not been what they anticipated?? Ian White was minus 7000 earlier this yr & now he has been a solid rock in SJ.
Patience is a wonderful thing & as long as the Bruins are winning they will continue to be patient & hope Kaberle picks up his overall game to what they expect. Until then hold in your loads and come back half way through next yr & discuss if Kaberle's play is still anemic or if all your feet will be in your mouth; as he plays at an elite level that he has shown over the course of the last 10yrs.
In youth we learn; in age we understand |
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Guest7752
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Posted - 05/09/2011 : 09:07:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Mario 66
Patience is a wonderful thing & as long as the Bruins are winning they will continue to be patient & hope Kaberle picks up his overall game to what they expect. Until then hold in your loads and come back half way through next yr & discuss if Kaberle's play is still anemic or if all your feet will be in your mouth; as he plays at an elite level that he has shown over the course of the last 10yrs.
In youth we learn; in age we understand
Hence my post that started this:
"To those who posted "[b]let's wait and see his worth during the playoffs..."[/b]"
This is where Beans' reading skills demonstrate he is not winning.
(and possibly your too, but I'll assume you haven't been keeping up with previous posts) |
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Mario 66
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
360 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2011 : 10:12:14
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Briefly skimmed through them, but did not read yours, which I now did further up about only concerning the playoffs.
I can agree from solely a playoff perspective, but they are winning & half the playoffs to go so even then really only time will tell how productive he will or can be. Beyond the first two games of the habs series you really haven't heard his name mentioned much & typically from a defensive perspective if your not hearing about them then they are doing their job. Kaberle just happens to be not tearing up the score sheet, which fans are accustomed to, but with that said beyond the PP the Bruins don't really count on their D for much offensive production; rather stability & allowing Thomas to see the puck.
Time will tell how productive & benficial of an acquistion he really was, but by no means does he completely suck as some have mentioned.
In youth we learn; in age we understand |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2011 : 10:48:57
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Well,
Sometimes one player can help a power play out all on his own, but it's rare. For one to expect a defenceman to do this is even more of a stretch.
An offensive defenceman usually gets about half his points on the pp, sometimes more. An offensive defenceman who is traded to a team with a terrible power play (albeit a pretty good team) will see his numbers dip.
Boston's power play was never the same after Savard left the lineup, and it just took a while for that effect to be felt.
All that being said, I do think Kaberle has still underperformed a bit in Boston, sure . . . but I certainly don't think he's been an utter failure either. Boston has a totally different system than Toronto had; and a comfort level on a new team does come a lot slower for a new d-man than for a forward. And . . . Kabby is not getting any younger either.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2011 : 22:38:30
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Mixed feelings on this one.
Kabby is even worse defensively than I thought, and I didn’t think he was good, and not as good offensively, at least not so far anyway. This is NOT a good combination!
Having said that, he has had some solid moments and made some decent contributions at times, AND, the Bs are about as in the hunt right now as they have been since Ulfie "terminated" Cam’s knee back in ’91, so getting Kabby cannot quite be considered a “huge failure” at this point, I think.
BUT, since the price for him was actually quite steep, the problem is that, unless the Bs either win the cup (in which case my face looks like this for the next 47 years  ) or he performs extremely well over the remainder of the playoffs in a losing cause, the acquisition of Kabby likely will have to be considered a “huge failure” indeed.
Either way, I do think it is fair to criticize Peter C. a bit here as if you're going to do the "short-term rental for a chance at the Cup at a steep cost" thing, you might want to do it with a bit better bet than Kabby.
p.s. I SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO want to eat these last words by sipping clam chowdaaaaa out of the cup after some tremendous play by Kabby in the weeks to come!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
GO KABBY! GO BS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Guest2773
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Posted - 05/28/2011 : 07:35:32
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| Well he has played like crap but the only consolation is that Boston will only be giving up a 30th overall pick which is basically a 2nd rounder. However that is even too much considering the way he has played for them. Maybe he redeems himself in the finals. |
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Guest4730
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Posted - 05/29/2011 : 06:08:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest2773
Well he has played like crap but the only consolation is that Boston will only be giving up a 30th overall pick which is basically a 2nd rounder. However that is even too much considering the way he has played for them. Maybe he redeems himself in the finals.
His play doesn't seem that great a few games but perhaps there is an injury that is not publicly known.
But statistically right now, 0G 8A tied with Seidenberg for the B's defense in points. He is also +7 with only 4 minutes of penalty. So what is the problem with Kaberle's performance in the playoffs in the overall picture (not just a bad moment in a game(s))?
What does he need to do to redeem himself? |
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Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro
640 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2011 : 10:44:53
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OK, everyone knows that Kaberle has never been the best defensive defencemen. That was the big knock on him in TO, soft defensive zone play. Did everyone all of sudden think a trade to Boston was going to make him a Nik Lidstrom? Come on!
From what I see, Kaberle is still doing exactly what Boston wanted. A defenseman that starts the rush out of the zone with confidence and gets the offense started. A clean first pass, or carrying the puck is what Kaberle as done very well over his career. Some even say he is one of the top defensemen in the league at doing so.
The man only has somewhere around 50 some odd career goals, i think, so do not expect him to be lighting the red light, but as the playoff stats show, he is creeping into the lead for Bruins D in playoff points. So either he is doing alright or every single other Bruins Dman is overrated as well.
Somehow me thinks he is only taking his knocks because of the hype coming from trading him out of TO.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2011 : 21:29:35
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Porkchop, et al...
The only problem i see is that apparently the Bruins got him to improve their PP and it's done nothing but STINK since.
Myself, i still think he's doing pretty good overall but if in fact he was brought in for the PP as a #1 objective, he's failing! There's no denying that! |
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Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro
640 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2011 : 05:50:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
Porkchop, et al...
The only problem i see is that apparently the Bruins got him to improve their PP and it's done nothing but STINK since.
Myself, i still think he's doing pretty good overall but if in fact he was brought in for the PP as a #1 objective, he's failing! There's no denying that!
Correct me if I am wrong but isn't Chara and Seidenberg the #1 PP defence pair. I am sure that Boston did not pick up Kaberle solely for PP improvement. Although the common thought would be that Kaberle would help quarterback the PP, I think the real reason was that Boston wanted Kaberle was they lacked a skilled puck moving defenceman. Many of the hockey experts blamed their exit from the playoffs last year on their poor breakout from their own zone. Something Kaberle has exelled at throughout his career and as I watch him, he is still doing very well with the Bruins. I am not going to say that Kaberle is the reason they made it to the cup this year, but he has brought a dimension to the Bruins that they lacked last year and that could be the difference, for the Bruins, in getting to the finals and making an early exit.
Again just my opinion but I don't think Kaberle would be taking the knocks if he had been traded from, lets say, Florida. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2011 : 09:04:36
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I dunno what's up with Kaberle and whether or not an injury has any affect on what's happening, but let's face it, he has NOT lived up to expectations. Some wanna see this as he's "over rated" and others tend to lean towards the fact he just hasn't fit in well in Boston. Either way, they gave up A LOT to get him, and he's not paying dividends. However, the Bruins are in the finals and even if they don't win, the team has made a ton of money on home games getting this far and they have at least 2 more.
Here's the most shocking thing i've seen regarding Kaberle. This is the B's dmen TOI from game 7 the other night:
Seidenberg 27:57
Chara 26:44
Ference 20:10
Boychuk 18:35
McQuaid 13:28
Kaberle 13:06
He's definitely not playing at a level anywhere close to what Boston expected when they gave up as much as they did to get him!!! |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2011 : 09:29:38
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quote:
Here's the most shocking thing i've seen regarding Kaberle. This is the B's dmen TOI from game 7 the other night:
Its not overly shocking given that there were no PP's for either side in the game, and Kaberle is not a defensive shutdown specialist. In a tie or 1 goal game, I would expect to see a lot of Chara and Siedenberg. |
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Guest8777
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Posted - 05/30/2011 : 21:27:50
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quote:
Originally posted by The Duke
Beans you tell me that i write some foolishness sometimes !!!!! I enjoy a lot of your posts and agree with the majority of what you write.
Guest 7752 makes very valid points againist your kaberle analysis, and its 100 % true what he wrote and you come back with some jibberish about what you learned in grade school. He is right....Boston is a winning team, they don`t need kaberles soft play.
Earlier on in this forum everyone said i contradicted myself when i wrote i don`t like kaberle but said Burke will get a great return for him. Yes, i agree this reads like a contradicting statement.
I really do not and never did like kaberle ( i also know other leaf fans who can`t stand kaberle )...but...i know some more leaf fans who love kaberle, i see some hockey analysist who constantly praise kaberle. This is the reason i wrote Burke would get a great return for kaberle, not for what i saw in him ....but for what other people ( for whatever reason, we all have an opinion ) saw in him.
Thers lots of guys in the league like kaberle, they put up great numbers in the regular season but come playoff time...when the goin gets rough....where are they ??
In kaberles case, the numbers are fine, great maybe. Thats not my problem with him, its his defensive play...the hitting, grinding, soft play ( especially in front of his net ), brutal.
I don`t like players like Semin, Backstrom, Kovalev, Zherdev, Jokinen, ....etc...you see where i`m going. Even the Sedin twins aren`t exactly pushing the Canucks deep into the playoffs, they can thank R.Kesler and Burrow type players for that.
On my playoff team, give me a M. Richards, C.Perry, R. Getzlaf, M. St.Louis, M.Lucic, D.Buff... anyday over these non - aggressive pretty boys.
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Guest8777
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Posted - 05/30/2011 : 21:32:48
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quote:
Originally posted by The Duke
[I don`t like players like Semin, Backstrom, Kovalev, Zherdev, Jokinen, ....etc...you see where i`m going. Even the Sedin twins aren`t exactly pushing the Canucks deep into the playoffs, they can thank R.Kesler and Burrow type players for that.
On my playoff team, give me a M. Richards, C.Perry, R. Getzlaf, M. St.Louis, M.Lucic, D.Buff... anyday over these non - aggressive pretty boys.
Wow.....a little anit-European aren't we? Sounds like the same crap Don Cherry gets on with.
I'm guessing you also wouldnt want guys like Franzen, Datsyuk, Zetterberg (just about anybody on Detroit), Ovechkin, Selanne, Malkin and Chara either.
I wonder if Kaberle had a different last name if he would get the same amount of criticism?
And if you are looking at points, Henrik is leading by the way. |
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Guest4271
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Posted - 06/01/2011 : 20:32:30
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He needs to shoot the damn puck.........or else get him OFF the powerplay and put Horton back there to shoot if Chara is going to play in front of the net.
Better yet, send back to TO for a bag of practice pucks, LMAO |
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Guest4200
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Posted - 06/21/2011 : 20:06:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest7752
With the Leafs, and in the last 5 years plus this season so far, Kaberle has amassed 42 goals and 204 assists in 435 games he played in. That’s an average of over 0.5 points per game. Most forwards would love these ppg numbers.
In this time, and in each subsequent year, he averaged 0.8 ppg, 0.8 ppg, 0.6 ppg, 0.5 ppg, 0.6 ppg. He had 0.6 ppg this season while with the Leafs.
This was a #1 D-man on the team, used on 5-on-5 situations as well as power-plays and p-kills. AND the Leaf teams over this time span were not the greatest.
Did he shine because he was the actual one of only few decent players on these so-so teams, and hence was he over-rated? I’ll even say over-rated especially by Burke since he wanted the world for Kaberle, and took way too long to make the trade.
He’s got 1 assist with Bruins in 5 games, playing mainly as #2 D-Man on the team, but under probably same playing conditions as he had with Leafs. AND the Bruins DO HAVE a real strong team. Is his shine less than most, especially Burke think? Shouldn't he be accumulating more points than ever with the Bruins?
We can’t use the excuse of him “learning” things on the new team, stats show that newly traded players tend to gain lots of momentum and points during the first games played with new teams.
Hmm wonder if all those who were so negative on this trade still consider this a bad trade and that Kaberle is over rated?
Let's see led all defencemen in points in the playoffs. Wins the Cup. yup. Over rated.
Remind me again why this was such a bad trade for Boston considering the first round pick is the the last pick of the first round or a first pick of the second round. Stil want to argue that it is still a first round pick. Go ahead argue to the semantics your hearts content.
I hear crow has a terrible after taste. |
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Topic |
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T. Kaberle - Over Rated? 
