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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
 Posted - 04/24/2011 : 20:44:01
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Poll Question:
Schneider started game 6, left with cramps in the 3rd period - AV says he's available for game 7. Luongo came in in relief and looked pretty good.
Who do the Canucks start in game 7?
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2011 : 20:46:41
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| tough one. I have to think they'll go with Luongo in net - he's your #1 and if you can't lean on your #1 in games like this, then why do you have him. But AV could throw a wrench in things and go with the Schneids - just no behind-the-net clearings. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2011 : 20:58:51
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I thought Luongo looked shaky but that might be because he came in cold. The issue with Luongo is pretty simple, he doesn't beat Chicago. Do you want a guy in there who hasn't been able to beat this team in the past 2 years, had them on the ropes with 3 very strong games and then has allowed 11 goals in 53 shots in just over a game and a half worth of work??? Or, do you want a kid that played an OK game but doesn't have nearly the baggage???
This question is only has a correct answer with a win. The wrong guy was in net if Vancouver loses. Doesn't matter how well the goalie does, if they lose the other guy should have been in net. What a great coach to create a goaltending controversy in the first round of the playoffs.  |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2011 : 21:06:23
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I'm pretty sure AV had little to do with the controversy - it is there because VAN hasn't won yet.
You may be right Beans, I honestly don't know which way he'll go - both have pros and cons. If you think there is a controversy now, think of what will happen if he starts Schneider and he wins game 7... |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2011 : 05:21:33
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I was absolutely shocked to see Schneider start game 6, and thought then that it was a total bonehead move by the coach.
Yes, Luongo did not play well the last two games . . . but he already won the first three, playing quite well! Yes, Schneider is a great young back-up with a bright future . . . but he is a rookie, with zero playoff experience! And to top it all off . . . no matter what happens afterward, you have undercut Luongo for the future - whether it's later on in the playoffs, or next year for the organisation.
You MUST stick with the guy who got you there, especially in a situation where he got you that 3-2 lead in games. Because as much as some may want to place all the blame for the losses at Luongo's feet, you must lay then the wins there as well.
I thought the OT goal was poorly played by Luongo, no doubt - flopping on the ground after a fat rebound was poor form. But he never should have been in that situation.
So, to actually answer the question, I play Luongo - the guy who got me there, and I apologise belatedly for making the bonehead move of starting Schneider.
I mean, seriously guys . . . you want to put more pressure on your defence, undercut your big-name goalie who just had an amazing season, and take away confidence from the guy who got you there, for a good rookie with zero playoff experience? You gotta be kidding me.
Brutal coaching move.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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ToXXiK1
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
696 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2011 : 06:20:02
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| Luongo, only because Van has no other choice. Schneider was injured but they say he can play. You can't possibly be thinking of sitting 11 yrs @ 5.5m to go and letting the "injured" rookie backup play? Either Luongo plays or the coach's job rides on the rookie, I think his job is on the line either way, but, Luongo needs to establish himself as he did in the 1st 3 games and regain form. If Schneider plays and wins, does that mean he's the goalie the rest of the way? C'mon man, Luongo will be in game 7. |
Edited by - ToXXiK1 on 04/25/2011 06:21:05 |
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Guest4125
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Posted - 04/25/2011 : 06:43:55
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Luongo......have to go with the guy with the most experience. and i don't think it would go over too well with management/ownership if they sat their no. 1 goalie in game 7.............especially if they lose!
lose with Luongo in net, then it's the team to blame for not getting it done. lose with Schneider in net, then the sole blame will fall on the coach. he won't make that mistake. |
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Guest9634
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Posted - 04/25/2011 : 06:59:54
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I think it was a great decision to start Schneider.
What Schneider really brings to the team is mental relief for Luongo. I think it's helped Luongo immensely this season knowing that he's got a guy on the bench who can step-in for him at a moment's notice and win a big game. But if the coach never played Schneider for the entire playoffs, then as far as Luongo's concerned, he might as well have nobody on the bench for him.
Even though the Canucks lost the game, the fact that Schneider was able to go in and play well and give Luongo a break is going to be huge for Luongo psychologically. He'll feel much less pressure from now on. |
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Mario 66
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
360 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2011 : 07:02:15
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This could possibly be a crippling move to the team this year & the franchise going fwd! I don't disagree starting a rookie goalie when he had the season Schneider did. After all Chicago went with a rookie goalie last yr & now this yr and it doesn't seem to be & was not an issue for them.
The problem I have with them doing it in gm 6 is you are telling your franchise & franchise goalie we don't think you can get it done! On top of that Luongo has sucked against the blackhawks in big games the previous two yrs. So now going into GM 7 one of the biggest gm in the organizations history! Ya,it's only series num 1, but you are the President's trophy winner & the potential for finally getting rid of your kryptonite ride on the line you have Luongo not only worrying about the pressure of a GM 7 alone, but now thinking about his past failures against Chicago & the belief that if he gives up an early or soft goal he'll get the hook.
Not a good psychy to have for a goalie in such a crucial gm. AV has really s*** the bed on this particular issue. Luongo should start, but if he fails AV will be gone & Van may have to start thinking about making some moves cuz Luongo may not be real happy & management may lose faith in the heart & desire of the core of this team come playoff time going fwd.
Then again the Canucks could win & all is well and the belief for the Cup is at a new all time high now that the dreaded Blackhawks are out of their way! Only time will tell
In youth we learn; in age we understand |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2011 : 07:22:21
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Did anyone see the media coverage after the game?? They shown AV talking to the media and quickly and clearly announcing Luongo as the starter during the game 5, post-game press conference. Then, he goes with Schneider?? They also had a quickly locker room interview with Luongo who looked quite unhappy when giving the answer of, "Me and Schnied's are the best tandem in the NHL. We both took starts all year and he is just as good as I am." The, back to AV in the game 6 post game conference who defended the decision by stating that both goalies took starts all season.
It was most likely a media twist on a very delicate situation, but there appears to be something there. And it's not something a fan wants to see. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2011 : 08:15:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
What a great coach to create a goaltending controversy in the first round of the playoffs.
Yeah, i put the controvery right on AV. Same as all three losses! I can't believe they haven't fired him already!!! What are they waiting for???
On a more serious note, imo, it's Luongo in game 7. Then again, i thought he'd start game 6? Sure, two terrible outtings, but this is the guy you rode most of the season to the President's Trophy and also, as Slozo mentioned, the guy who won you the first 3. Also, it was interesting to note that Schneider's starts this year were not exactly against the best teams in the league. Apparently, only 4 of his starts were against teams which ended up in the playoffs, for whatever that's worth?
I can't imagine the Canucks coming back with anyone but Luongo in net for game 7. It's his to win or lose!
The rumours are starting to swirl here about the decision to start Schneider last night and the latest one i heard is a theory that the decision came from "above", and not AV himself? Just a rumour, but it'd be interesting to see if the Nucks lose game 7, if we'd hear more about it? Surely AV would be instantly unemployed and likely he'd be willing to talk??? |
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polishexpress
PickupHockey Pro
525 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2011 : 08:24:29
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| Don't give up hope Alex! It's now a one game series! All I care is I'm getting to watch great playoff hockey. This CHI-VAN series has been amazing! |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2011 : 08:34:07
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quote:
Originally posted by polishexpress
Don't give up hope Alex! It's now a one game series! All I care is I'm getting to watch great playoff hockey. This CHI-VAN series has been amazing!
Not giving up hope, hope's all i got left!! lol.
Funny, everyone says this has been the most entertaining series and maybe it's because my team is in the midst of a massive choke job, but i'm not enjoying this one anymore! 
The Montreal / Boston series has actually been my favorite thus far. Love the way these two battle and how their games are so different. Montreals speed vs Boston's size. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2011 : 10:03:56
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This series has been the most entertaining one for sure, choke job or not. I was literally on the edge of my seat for the entire game last night, it was that good.
Regardless of who starts game 7, we have a full blown controversy in Vantown now. I liked the Schneids start in game 6 myself - AV's job is to get the team going in any way he can by making changes, and the goaltender was the last change he had not tried. Schneider played very well as well - when he wasn't passing the puck to CHI players from behind his net that is, but you expect communication breakdowns with defense when you don't play much. But I thought it was a gutsy move by AV
Slozo/Toxxik/Mario - Schneider played 25 games this year for the Canucks, and was extremely good in nearly all of them, he had fantastic stats to end the year, and played an important part in giving Luongo much needed rest throughout the year. So its not like they were simply throwing an untested rookie in the net for an important playoff game - people in VAN believe in him as a quality backup, and have seen the goaltending job as a real tandem this year. Its hard to say that Luongo "got us there" all by himself.
And in regards to Luongo needing to play so he can overcome the big hurdle of the Blackhawks...well, he's had 3 chances now to do so, and has not. As a team, the Canucks need to do whatever they feel they need to do to win game 7, regardless of Luongo's feelings IMO. If they think Luongo gives them the best chance to win, then he plays. If they think Schneider does, then he plays.
As for AV's future...well, it doesn't matter who he plays, it only matters that he wins. |
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Pushrod
Top Prospect
Canada
44 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2011 : 10:08:34
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| Completely agree with Mario and Slozo. Terrible move by the coach. It's not like the Canucks have a questionable tandem like the Flyers and nobody can realistically make a good decision who to start. Luongo is the number 1 goalie, paid to be the number 1 goalie and you have to play him. AV is playing with fire and may very likely get burned by it. If they lose the series and Schneider plays AV would certainly be gone, and it almost announces that Luongo is on the trade market and Schneider is who they want going forward. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2011 : 10:38:24
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To the point of Schneider playing 25 games this season, I might have heard incorrectly but the boys on CBC were talking about that last night as well. Apparently, of those 25 games there were only 5 played against teams who made the playoffs. Not sure if that means anything, but any fuel I can put on this fire I will.
As far as entertaining, last night absolutely. I was telling my wife that I don't believe I could handle the Oilers making the playoffs again as I nearly had an anurism on a number of occasions during game 6.
Not like I expect to see the Oilers in the playoffs any time soon, just in case some of you unhappy Canucks fans are looking for a free shot. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2011 : 11:05:18
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quote:
To the point of Schneider playing 25 games this season, I might have heard incorrectly but the boys on CBC were talking about that last night as well. Apparently, of those 25 games there were only 5 played against teams who made the playoffs. Not sure if that means anything, but any fuel I can put on this fire I will.
That may be true, in the final standings - however there was so much movement amongst teams in the west that its hard to put value on that. For example, a game vs DAL at the end of December - at the time DAL was second or third in the conference and certainly seemed to be a playoff bound, but in the end, they didn't make it. Was that a game against a "non playoff team"?
Schneider played 25 games this season. Of those 25, the following were against teams that were not in the playoff hunt at the time he played them or were not playoff contenders at all:
- Dec 26 vs EDM
- Feb 15 vs MIN
- Feb 24 vs STL
- Mar 16 vs COL
- Mar 27 vs CBJ
- Apr 2 vs EDM
- Apr 5 vs EDM
- Apr 9 vs CGY
So, 8 games out of 25 he played against "non-playoff teams", or roughly 1/3 of his games. I would imagine that ratio would be the same for Luongo, or any starting goalie on a playoff team.
As for against teams that made the actual playoffs, a quick count shows he played 7.
Pushrod - if they lose this series, its a good bet that AV will be gone no matter who he plays. You can argue that Luongo should be starting as he is the #1 (and I agree), but its difficult to overlook 12 goals against in 2 games that we had a chance to clinch as well. AV made a gutsy move - knowing if it fails he has another chance with game7 at home - and it failed.
One thing is for sure - if the Canucks had won last night, we'd all be tripping over ourselves to congratulate AV on an astute and daring coaching move. |
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Guest8007
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Posted - 04/25/2011 : 11:20:42
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| I agree, if they lose this series AV is gone no matter what so he may as well roll the dice. And he would have looked genius if they had won. I still don't agree with the decision but it did take guts. However, it does signal to me that Luongo may not be there much longer and it was a big statement to make, even if it wasn't the intention. At the present time not really the concern for the fans or players, as they want the cup win now, but once they're out (unless they win the cup with Luongo playing the rest of the way) it will be interesting to see what happens. |
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Pushrod
Top Prospect
Canada
44 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2011 : 11:21:32
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| Sorry, above was me. |
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Guest5289
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Posted - 04/25/2011 : 11:34:50
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| schnieder's hurt |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2011 : 11:44:45
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| Schneider will be available for game 7, he only had cramps from dehydration apparently. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2011 : 11:49:49
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I think Schneider's cramp was induced by Frolik undressing him to quickly. Dehydration?? I think that's a typo. I think it should have read de-jockstrapping. 
Excuse me sir, is this your jock?? I found it in the rafters........
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leigh
Moderator
Canada
1755 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2011 : 12:06:56
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The Canucks will come back with Luongo for game 7.
I thought Schneider coming in for game 6 was the right move. With a game in hand you've got nothing to lose at this point. Your starter had two poor games so you have to shake it up. That's what a back-up goalie is for; resting your starter and letting him get his head straight - then put him back in for the biggest game of his career!
And let's be clear, Luongo may not have been great for games 4 and 5 but he was not the only reason the Canucks lost. They stunk it up as a team. And give the Blackhawks their credit, they were awesome in both of those games. Game 6 was a tough break, the Canucks were clearly the better team and they weren't even that great. If the Canucks play at least that well in game 7 with Luongo playing at the same level as the team they will win.
I'd bet on the Canucks for game 7.
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leigh
Moderator
Canada
1755 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2011 : 12:25:23
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| If the Canucks lose game 7 Vigneault will not be fired. He was just nominated as coach of the year after winning the President's trophy. You don't fire that coach. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2011 : 13:57:32
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Leigh, I hope you are right because as long as AV is the coach, Vancouver will never win a Cup. With a loss, it will be 3 straight years where Vancouver has been one of the top teams in the NHL during the regular season and did not beat the Hawks.
Regular season counts for awards. Playoffs make legends. AV just doesn't have it. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2011 : 14:05:59
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quote:
Originally posted by leigh
If the Canucks lose game 7 Vigneault will not be fired. He was just nominated as coach of the year after winning the President's trophy. You don't fire that coach.
Wouldn't that be ironic? Wonder if that's happened before? Not about to say AV will win the award, but it's an interesting position he finds himself in. Personally, i think he's done if they lose, regardless of the Jack Adams nomination! |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2011 : 16:45:46
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| sounds like AV has publically given the start to Luongo. Of course, he did the same for game 6 and look what happened, but I think this time its for real. |
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2011 : 17:11:08
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I`m with you Slozo...i couldn`t beleive my eyes when the Canucks started that young goalie. By starting Luongo you have 2 shots with him to beat the Hawks, now you have one.
I figured Luongo would have a monster game in game 6, just a gut feeling, i think the coach may have blown this one.
Just say for arguements sake the Canucks start Schneider in game 7 and lose...what do you do with Luongo then in the off - season ?? Do you think his heart will still be in Vancouver if this situation develops ??...i certainly don`t. He will most likely want out as fast as he can.
Luongo should definitely start...one bad goal, put in Schneider. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2011 : 21:04:08
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quote:
By starting Luongo you have 2 shots with him to beat the Hawks, now you have one.
Last week, Luongo had 4 chances to beat the Hawks. 2 games, 12 goals, and 2 yanks later...it was probably not a hard choice for AV, given that they would have one more chance after that. Schneider got the chance because he's been an extremely reliable backup all year long - its not like we put Monster in the net 
quote:
Just say for arguements sake the Canucks start Schneider in game 7 and lose...what do you do with Luongo then in the off - season ?? Do you think his heart will still be in Vancouver if this situation develops ??...i certainly don`t. He will most likely want out as fast as he can.
This probably factored into it more than it should have, but so be it. The reality is, starting Schneider tomorrow night produces no gain either way. If he loses, then AV made the bad choice, he's probably fired, and the Canucks are out again. If he wins, we move onto round 2, but the goaltending controversy that comes out of it, and the long term damage to Luongo's psyche, don't go away. For better or worse, we probably have Luongo for the next decade, and he has to produce. One lost playoff series is probably worth it in the long term. |
Edited by - nuxfan on 04/25/2011 21:05:02 |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2011 : 06:07:46
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quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
quote:
To the point of Schneider playing 25 games this season, I might have heard incorrectly but the boys on CBC were talking about that last night as well. Apparently, of those 25 games there were only 5 played against teams who made the playoffs. Not sure if that means anything, but any fuel I can put on this fire I will.
That may be true, in the final standings - however there was so much movement amongst teams in the west that its hard to put value on that. For example, a game vs DAL at the end of December - at the time DAL was second or third in the conference and certainly seemed to be a playoff bound, but in the end, they didn't make it. Was that a game against a "non playoff team"?
Schneider played 25 games this season. Of those 25, the following were against teams that were not in the playoff hunt at the time he played them or were not playoff contenders at all:
- Dec 26 vs EDM
- Feb 15 vs MIN
- Feb 24 vs STL
- Mar 16 vs COL
- Mar 27 vs CBJ
- Apr 2 vs EDM
- Apr 5 vs EDM
- Apr 9 vs CGY
So, 8 games out of 25 he played against "non-playoff teams", or roughly 1/3 of his games. I would imagine that ratio would be the same for Luongo, or any starting goalie on a playoff team.
As for against teams that made the actual playoffs, a quick count shows he played 7.
Pushrod - if they lose this series, its a good bet that AV will be gone no matter who he plays. You can argue that Luongo should be starting as he is the #1 (and I agree), but its difficult to overlook 12 goals against in 2 games that we had a chance to clinch as well. AV made a gutsy move - knowing if it fails he has another chance with game7 at home - and it failed.
One thing is for sure - if the Canucks had won last night, we'd all be tripping over ourselves to congratulate AV on an astute and daring coaching move.
Schneider has 1 game of playoff experience, and is 0-1. Never been in a game 7.
Schneider's record against the Blackhawks is now 0-1 as a starter (he came on in relief in a game on Nov 20th against them and gave up 3 goals in the third in a 7-1 loss).
Schneider was playing as a back-up, on a very deep team with no pressure games at all during his winning streak in Feb/March with a playoff spot assured, the Sedins rolling and the division theirs.
Luongo is your proven starter, and has a huge pedigree - he was the winning goalie in a 3-2 OT game for the Canadian olympic gold medal (talk about your pressure!), played in the same building as the game tonight.
Luongo's record in game 7's: 1-0
Luongo's record this playoffs: 3-3, although that 3rd loss was not entirely his
Yes, Luongo played a poor game against the Hawks last year in a game 6 losing effort . . . against the Stanley Cup champ Hawks, that is. No shame there, IMHO.
Not to sound like a Luongo supporter in particular, but . . . the guy is a proven winner. He has a 20-20 record in the playoffs.
He'll get #21 tonight, I'd guess.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2011 : 19:05:50
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Nuxfan , what do you mean by...last week Luongo had 4 chances to beat the Hawks ?
Didn`t Luongo start 5 games against the Hawks this series and won 3 out of 5 ? thats a 60 % winning percent.
I know he got beat bad in game 4 but in game 5 on some of those goals the puck had eyes. After 2 straight losses i thought Luongo was ready for a monster game...guess we`ll never know now. Where are the Sedins lately anyway ??
Good luck tonight  |
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Topic |
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Who starts game 7 in goal (VAN/CHI)? 
