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ED11
Rookie
Canada
224 Posts |
 Posted - 04/04/2007 : 00:03:45
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I am just wondering what people thought about this...
If you had to pick between Bryan Trottier and Mike Bossy, who would you pick to be on your team and why? (Lets assume that they were both at their peaks when you had to pick. Well they kind of were anyway).
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Edited by - ED11 on 04/04/2007 00:06:58
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tctitans
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
931 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2007 : 00:38:07
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quote:
Originally posted by ED11
I am just wondering what people thought about this...
If you had to pick between Bryan Trottier and Mike Bossy, who would you pick to be on your team and why? (Lets assume that they were both at their peaks when you had to pick. Well they kind of were anyway).
This is too tough for me to pick - It would really have to be based on the current make-up of my team and my needs.
Trottier was awesome and the better all-around player, but I can't believe any team couldnt use one of the best snipers of all time.
I think i'd have to lean towards Mikey. |
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Saku Steen
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1102 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2007 : 03:44:58
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| Mike Bossy because of his skill, but also the class he has. |
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manninm
PickupHockey Pro
USA
347 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2007 : 05:54:30
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| Nice topic. Poses the age old question of sheer ability vs. all around game. Bossy the prolific goal scorer, Trottier the ultimate team guy. I'd have to say Trottier, but you can make a very strong argument for both. |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2007 : 09:28:05
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| It's like Tctitans says, it depends on what the team needs. I tend to prefer guys who have an all around game more than guys who have one super ability. Therefore I would pick Trottier. He was no slouch offensively but he had the rest of the game as well. Bossy was a tremendous natural goal scorer but a little too one dimensional for me. |
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juice32
Rookie
Canada
100 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2007 : 10:21:19
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I'm gonna take the JFJ way out and pick:
NIC ANTROPOV |
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PuckNuts
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2414 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2007 : 11:04:06
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This is a very good question, and I love to look at and compare stats. I selected the following seasons to compare all of Bossy’s career, except the last when he was injured.
Between the two players they played close to the same amount of games in both the regular season and the playoffs.
So between the 1977-78 season and the 1985-86 season both were in their prime:
Regular season...........................................Playoffs
Bossy....689Gms 535G 516A 1051Pts 177Pim...123Gms 83G 72A 155Pts 38Pim
Trottier..678Gms 335G 593A 948Pts 572Pim....126Gms 52G 86A 138Pts 184Pim
Most people would think that Trottier would be ahead in points, but he is not. It is true that Bossy was a goal scorer but he was not a bad playmaker. Even in the playoffs he led in points.
I am going to give the edge to Bossy…but either player would have been great on any team…
The best way to convince a fool that he is wrong is to let him have his own way...
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Edited by - PuckNuts on 04/04/2007 11:05:01 |
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ED11
Rookie
Canada
224 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2007 : 13:29:16
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| I won't down play any of the skills of these two players but for me Trottier was just simply a more complete player. He edges Bossy for me by just a little... |
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2007 : 14:46:43
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Good question. It's hard to imagine one without the other, isn't it? But focussing on that point may help. Trottier and Brett Hull, for example, would have worked wonderfully I think. Oates and Bossy probably would have worked well, but for some reason when I match up Bossy with other centres, I find myself wondering whether his results would have been to the same degree of excellence. Of course his performance would have been pretty good with just about anyone, and PuckNuts makes a good point about his assists, but I wonder just how much he benefitted from, in particular, the fighting for the puck, battling along the boards and in the corners, etc. which that really strong guy with the funny moustache was really great at. How many of his goals, and even assists, were as a result of that great blue collar work by Trottier - probably a lot more than the nice play variety that an Oates-type centre could have provided him with (of course there were quite a few of the nice play variety too mind you). Overall though, I think that tough blue collar work was the main thing Bossy benefitted from, and few did it better than Trottier.
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Edited by - andyhack on 04/04/2007 17:08:20 |
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ED11
Rookie
Canada
224 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2007 : 15:14:45
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Great insight andy! |
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leafsfan_101
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1530 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2007 : 15:15:59
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LOL i have got both. I don't think that I can make an accurate argument because of my age but if bossy had played at least 5 years more he would be ranked in the top ten best players of all time, no doubt. But I can't make a good argument soo...
Long Live Leafs Nation!! |
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tctitans
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
931 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2007 : 15:36:18
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This is a good thread because it's highly debatable and it's impossible to declare a definitive answer.
-Both Bossy and Trottier were highly talented stars and didn't 'need' each other - they were both stars on their own.
-Bossy had a MUCH better point-per-game career than Trottier did (but Bossy was forced to retire while still in his prime, so that certainly affected this).
-Bossy was more consistent during their time together, plus his game was continuing at an elite level while Trottier's did begin to dwindle a bit. Stats support this as well:
Bossy: GP G A Pts
1977-78 73 53 38 91
1978-79 80 69 57 126
1979-80 75 51 41 92
1980-81 79 68 51 119
1981-82 80 64 83 147
1982-83 79 60 58 118
1983-84 67 51 67 118
1984-85 76 58 59 117
1985-86 80 61 62 123
1986-87 63 38 37 75
Trottier: GP G A Pts
1977-78 77 46 77 123
1978-79 76 47 87 134
1979-80 78 42 62 104
1980-81 73 31 72 103
1981-82 80 50 79 129
1982-83 80 34 55 89
1983-84 68 40 71 111
1984-85 68 28 31 59
1985-86 78 37 59 96
1986-87 80 23 64 87
Bossy, 9 straight 50 goal seasons (5 of which were >60).
Both amazing superstars.
I still give the edge to Bossy for my team.
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ED11
Rookie
Canada
224 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2007 : 16:02:51
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Well I am glad that everyone is enjoying this thread!!! |
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2007 : 16:38:29
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"Need" is too strong a word, yes. But my point was that, in the Cup years anyway, Bossy may have "benefited" from Trottier, more than Trottier benefited from Bossy. Part of my way of thinking too is what I consider a bit of an intimidation factor that Trottier brought to the table. And Gillies too (when the Giant was awake, that is). That had to help Bossy tremendously.
It is true though that the stats do show Bossy could do great without Trottier necessarily contributing point-wise to the same degree as in his peak years. With Trottier though, I think stats are less relevant as his value was way more than just points. Even when his point production was fading, he was still a huge factor for Bossy as I recall. And, we always have to remember, great stats are basically just a reflection of offence. With Trottier you have to factor in his defensive play and that may account for more than any of us really know.
Anyway, I was actually thinking of Trottier in his prime, the Cup years in particular.
But I certainly understand where tctitans is coming from. I mean we are talking about one of the most productive goal scorers in NHL history in Bossy. And he scored all types of ways, anytime and anywhere, right from day 1 of his career.
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1 Crosby fan
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1454 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2007 : 18:16:52
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Well i have to say Mike Bossy because 9 straight 50 goal seasons and what 1000 career points and forced to retire in his prime but Trottier wasn't bad either but it has to be Bossy
Winners never Quit and Quitters never win
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ED11
Rookie
Canada
224 Posts |
Posted - 04/04/2007 : 22:04:19
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| Well from what I am reading it seems that Bossy is getting a little more picks. I really like some of the insight that you guys have brought into this question. Good job guys! |
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tctitans
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
931 Posts |
Posted - 04/06/2007 : 01:37:16
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quote:
Originally posted by ED11
Well from what I am reading it seems that Bossy is getting a little more picks. I really like some of the insight that you guys have brought into this question. Good job guys!
It's an extremely tough debate... I've given my edge to Bossy, but I could go to sleep tonight, get up in a different mood and pick Trottier. They were both superstars. |
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2007 : 17:45:45
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This is kind of interesting (from Wilkipedia).
"Bossy has harbored some animosity towards Gretzky and the Oilers, stating that the Islanders got little recognition for their dynasty (1980-1983) compared to the Montreal Canadiens (1976-1979) or Edmonton Oilers (1984-1990)... During Gretzky's interview with the New York Post in 1993, he praised Bossy as the best right-winger ever to play, saying that their scoring totals would have been even higher if the two had played together. Bossy's response in the Post was not complimentary, as he pointed out that their playing styles were different, and also said that Trottier was the best. Gretzky afterwards could not be reached for comment."
Although maybe not the most gracious answer from Bossy, I kind of understand where he is coming from, and was trying to get at that point about Trottier's playing style fitting him so well in my earlier posts here. |
Edited by - andyhack on 04/15/2007 06:46:57 |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2007 : 18:19:49
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quote:
Originally posted by andyhack
This is kind of in interesting (from Wilkipedia).
"Bossy has harbored some animosity towards Gretzky and the Oilers, stating that the Islanders got little recognition for their dynasty (1980-1983) compared to the Montreal Canadiens (1976-1979) or Edmonton Oilers (1984-1990)... During Gretzky's interview with the New York Post in 1993, he praised Bossy as the best right-winger ever to play, saying that their scoring totals would have been even higher if the two had played together. Bossy's response in the Post was not complimentary, as he pointed out that their playing styles were different, and also said that Trottier was the best. Gretzky afterwards could not be reached for comment."
Although maybe not the most gracious answer from Bossy, I kind of understand where he is coming from, and was trying to get at that point about Trottier's playing style fitting him so well in my ealrier posts here.
There goes Gretzky being arrogant again...
"Go chase headlights!" |
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2007 : 06:41:13
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A Sunday morning thought.
Gretzky's comment does raise the DREADED HYPOTHETICAL for Beans, doesn't it? Would Bossy have been more successful with Gretzky as his center? I don't mean in terms only of goals scored here but generally as a hockey player. I know it depends on a lot of factors about other players on the team. And again it's a question of styles meshing. Maybe Kurri with Gretzky was way better for Gretzky than what Bossy and him would have been.
I know, I know - I can actually visualize a number of you saying right now, "This is exactly why I hate hypotheticals!!!!" By the way, Beans, do you really look like Mr. Beans, cause that's my image?!
Anyway, it's YOUR guy Gretzky who started the discussion. Oh, and do you agree with Willus that it was an arrogant comment? I mean, he did give Bossy a huge compliment first, and when you look at the styles of the respective teams, well, maybe Gretzky had a good point. I call his comment maybe a bit "inconsiderate" to Trottier though.
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Edited by - andyhack on 04/15/2007 06:43:45 |
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tctitans
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
931 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2007 : 09:29:23
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quote:
Originally posted by andyhack
A Sunday morning thought.
Gretzky's comment does raise the DREADED HYPOTHETICAL for Beans, doesn't it? Would Bossy have been more successful with Gretzky as his center? I don't mean in terms only of goals scored here but generally as a hockey player. I know it depends on a lot of factors about other players on the team. And again it's a question of styles meshing. Maybe Kurri with Gretzky was way better for Gretzky than what Bossy and him would have been.
I know, I know - I can actually visualize a number of you saying right now, "This is exactly why I hate hypotheticals!!!!" By the way, Beans, do you really look like Mr. Beans, cause that's my image?!
Anyway, it's YOUR guy Gretzky who started the discussion. Oh, and do you agree with Willus that it was an arrogant comment? I mean, he did give Bossy a huge compliment first, and when you look at the styles of the respective teams, well, maybe Gretzky had a good point. I call his comment maybe a bit "inconsiderate" to Trottier though.
This should be it's own thread, but I think it apparent that *anybody* would have been more successfull with Gretzky. Now, that being said, there are probably a few cases where the debate woulld get interesting. For example, would Jagr have done better with Gretzky *instead* of Lemieux - but these examples are few and far between. |
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Guest4009
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Posted - 04/15/2007 : 12:54:38
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Great topic, interesting choices.
I pick Trottier, even though I will acknowledge Bossy as one of the best (maybe best) pure goal scorers in NHL history.
Trottier was more of a team guy, from what I could tell, and also willing to play through pain.
I'm not suggesting Bossy was soft, but a very different type of guy and player. As for the comment that he was classy, that's debateable.
Trots would be my guy. Heart always trumps pure talent on a team I'm building. Lots of teams have talent (hello, Kovalchuk and Hossa), but they will never win a Stanley Cup over a team of Shanahans or Yzermans.
How good would Bossy have been had he not smoked cigarettes throughout his career, I wonder? |
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Trottier vs. Bossy 
