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mandree888
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
400 Posts |
 Posted - 02/29/2012 : 07:33:11
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i agree with kadri joining the team at this point. as well as colbourne. why he is not at least practicing with the team and learning face off cirlce stratigies with steckel is beyond me both kadri and colbourne (as well as frattin for that matter) are centres..... get them working on the face off strategies with your lead face off guy is a must. steckel came to the team and was helping lead the team from the get go and he doesnt even have an "A" on his jersey. wtf! wilson constantly kills any confidence in his youth players by not utlizing them and not letting them develop. they are supposed to be the leafs of the futre and wilson crushes their hopes.
When kadri colbourne and frattin were play earlier in the year when the leafs had injuries i thought they were perfect fit for the energy line. (could use a little more defence yeah but again if wilson actually focused on defence who knows what would happen.)
These guys are nhl ready right now and wilson doesnt use them becuase he feels there are to much of a liablity on the defence. (heres and idea wilson COACH DEFENCE!)
Look at boston last year the won because of amazing defence not because their offence is good.
Detroit on of the best defence teams won many cups.
we have good players on defence. Too many offensive defenceman
phaneuf liles gardiner franson and two defensive defencmen shenn and komi...... |
Edited by - mandree888 on 02/29/2012 07:44:20 |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/29/2012 : 08:09:29
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Ok, my pot stirring has done enough to get Leafland all riled up. I really am not a huge fan of Wilson as a person as many have eluded to. I do this his is an arrogant jerk in most of his interactions with the media. However, I will defend him on a few things:
1) Slozo, you talk about Wilson's mismanagement of the third line. I think the key is the 2nd part of the word 'mismanagement." Wilson creates the lines based on the players he has at his disposal. Burke give him those players.
2) Duke, you are awesome. Does anyone else remember Duke's argument last year that OTL were a wash and didn't count as losses for a team?? I do. I can find it if need. I just think it's hilarious that now, OTL count against Wilson.
I really don't feel like having this argument anymore. I was bored and wanted to stir the pot. I am now bored with stirring the pot. But Leaf fans make it so incredibly easy. Just disagree with what they are saying, do it a little abrasively, and watch the fur fly!!!
My final point, and what I still will defend Wilson about, is that the Leaf roster is an average team. Maybe marginally better than average, at best. I still don't think any coach is going to make that significant of a difference. If Scott Bowman in his prime was the coach of the Leafs, they would likely be a playoff team but not much higher than 6th or 7th and they would still bow out in the 1st round against any of Boston, NYR, PITT, or FLA(if last night was any indication).
I am done. I will leave the Leaf fans alone for now as the next 20 games will be hard enough for them to deal with.  |
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Guest7752
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Posted - 02/29/2012 : 08:56:30
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Last year we had waffles thrown at the team.
This year we have "Fire Wilson" chants...
And Wilson had his contract extended??
He had a decent Anaheim team in early 90's, and won nothing.
He had a very good Washington team in early 2000's didn't get past first round of playoffs.
He had an excellent team with San Jose in mid to late 2000's - didn't get his team past 2nd round in playoffs.
What can he possibly do in Toronto with a team that has only one very good offensive line, no solid goalie, and a confused, expensive, over-rated defence??
He's leading a team that had waffles thrown at them, fans booing them off the ice, and fans calling for his head on national TV??
Now even Sport-show commentators are "suggesting" he step down or Burke replaces him...
Wow - we all thought the Habs were the laughing stock of NHL this year. |
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Guest2765
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Posted - 02/29/2012 : 09:04:47
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| This is why i laugh every October when every Leaf fan is planning the Stanely cup parade. Why can't they realize they don't have a good and say so |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 02/29/2012 : 11:46:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest2765
This is why i laugh every October when every Leaf fan is planning the Stanely cup parade. Why can't they realize they don't have a good and say so
Oh no...don't start this talk! If you think Beans stirred the pot, this will tip the frickin' thing over!!!  |
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mandree888
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
400 Posts |
Posted - 02/29/2012 : 12:02:32
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| rofl alex lol..... i would only start the parade if it was game seven and 30 seconds left of the finals that the leafs were up 7 - 0 ...... even that they could still blow...... so ...... |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/29/2012 : 12:07:48
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Granted, it is far easier to stir the pot when the Leafs are doing poorly. Every time I tried to get the masses going when things were sunny in TO I got shut down.
Hey, I really can't imagine the frustration in TO. It has been a long time since the Oilers were good enough to even be mentioned in talks of the playoffs. If I was a Leaf fan at the 40 game mark I would have been happy as a clam. However, I would be sweating bullets today, and rightfully so. No one wants their team to be 4 pts out of the playoffs with 19 games left. Especially after losing 9 of 10.
That being said, I still think this situation is the Leaf Nation looking for a pound of flesh. There are some great points that Leaf fans are making about Wilson and the mistakes he is making. However, I don't hear anything about the disgusting play of the defensive group or the pitiful play of the PP (I think before last night they were something like 1-28 in the last 5 or 6 games). No one is talking about Kessel and Lupul cooling, the turnovers the defense, or the very shaky goalie play.
Wilson is part of the problem, albeit not the only problem and I still don't think the biggest problem. There is a formula for success in the NHL. A recipe if you will. It's like baking a cake. You can have the flour, the milk, and the eggs, but you can't make a cake with a little baking soda too!!
The Leafs are missing ingredients that are more important that coaching, at least in my opinion. I see the Leafs needing more quality in their bottom 6 forwards and more experienced goaltending as bigger issues than Wilson as the coach. |
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 02/29/2012 : 14:57:03
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Beans, didn`t i list these needs you refer to.....
In an earlier post i listed ( i think ) if memory serves me correctly.....
A number 1 center for the first line......a big winger with scoring touch for their 2nd line.......a real # 1 goalie..........a true shutdown defenseman.....and a 4th line center who can skate ( Mike . Zig ) wouldn`t hurt either.
Why not play some young guys and see if some energy can be brought to this team...
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Shepsky
Rookie
Canada
211 Posts |
Posted - 02/29/2012 : 17:43:16
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| I don't think Kessel and Lupul have really cooled off, true they aren't scoring at an amazing right, but even the best players have good and bad games, even when the leafs are losing Kessel and Lupul are still getting points, and both still sit in the top ten for points in the league. I think these 2 are still playing to how they should be, maybe even better. I think the problems aren't Kessel and Lupul. Goaltending is an issue, bet a better defensive minded team in front of them would help a lot, and Wilson needs to coach his team to do that, he has failed. The Leafs are still sitting in 8th for goals/game, not to shabby. There is clearly an area to improve and that's goals against/game |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/29/2012 : 20:44:14
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quote:
Originally posted by The Duke
Beans, didn`t i list these needs you refer to.....
In an earlier post i listed ( i think ) if memory serves me correctly.....
A number 1 center for the first line......a big winger with scoring touch for their 2nd line.......a real # 1 goalie..........a true shutdown defenseman.....and a 4th line center who can skate ( Mike . Zig ) wouldn`t hurt either.
Why not play some young guys and see if some energy can be brought to this team...
Again Duke, you are awesome. In one hand you are saying Wilson is a horrible coach and needs to go because if a different coach was brought in the Leafs would be better. The next post you say that the Leafs are still missing nearly every piece that a true contender needs to compete.
If Wilson doesn't have those pieces, is he still expected to make his team perform as if they had those pieces??
I think the guys on TSN said it very well tonight. If you look at their effort against Chicago, it sure didn't look like a team that wasn't listening to the coach and he has lost the room. It looked to me as a team who simply could not contain the other teams top line. |
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Shepsky
Rookie
Canada
211 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2012 : 04:16:04
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| Yes but Beans, how many times in that Chicago game did Toronto get caught in a bad line change, if you didn't watch the game it was a lot. Who is to blame for that? The leafs did have trouble containing the top line, but the defense was still atrocious overall. Mackenzie said it best during first intermission on TSN. If the Leafs fail to make the playoffs again, there is no way that Ron Wilson can keep his job, with his poor record of actually making the playoffs with teams he's coaching. Maybe Wilson would be a better fit somewhere else, maybe he would be a great coach elsewhere, he just doens't fit in Toronto right now. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2012 : 05:25:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Shepsky
Yes but Beans, how many times in that Chicago game did Toronto get caught in a bad line change, if you didn't watch the game it was a lot. Who is to blame for that? The leafs did have trouble containing the top line, but the defense was still atrocious overall. Mackenzie said it best during first intermission on TSN. If the Leafs fail to make the playoffs again, there is no way that Ron Wilson can keep his job, with his poor record of actually making the playoffs with teams he's coaching. Maybe Wilson would be a better fit somewhere else, maybe he would be a great coach elsewhere, he just doens't fit in Toronto right now.
Who's to blame for that??? Umm, perhaps the players??? Is it not the players on the ice who are coming off?? It's not like Wilson is always calling the players off the ice and bad times, is he?? I haven't seen an NHL head coach dictate lines in that fashion during the game.
I guess that one could look at every problem on an NHL team and blame the coach, but c'mon. Line changes now???
I don't disagree that Wilson will likely be gone if the Leafs don't make the playoffs. However, I still don't see the Leafs as a playoff team without consistent goaltending(that normally comes with experience) and a legit set of 3rd line, shut down fowards to stop the other team from running over them. To the example of the Chicago game, how often did the commentators talk about how poorly the Steckel line was playing and how much the Leafs are a run and gun team as they can't stop the opposition from scoring??
Wilson is running the proper system for the players he has. They are an offensively focused team that try to outscore (rather than stop) the opposition. |
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Guest6835
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Posted - 03/01/2012 : 05:28:34
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| You can take Wilson and Phneuf,package them and ship them to the minors.I swear they hold each others corn at night.Wilson cannot coach and Dion can't even skate.He causes so many goals and scoring opportunities.For sure the most overated,overpaid player in all pro hockey.If you want to win,bag this pair of losers. |
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Guest6835
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Posted - 03/01/2012 : 05:36:28
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| Who's the guy in charge for matching lines.The coach.How many times did Wilson have his fourth line against Kane and Hossa last night.Fire him.Dion fell down at least a dozen times last night.Caused two goals,was on the ice for three and blew a scoring chance when the game was 4-3.Minor league for Dion for conditioning.Retirement for Wilson.Nuff said. |
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Guest4889
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Posted - 03/01/2012 : 05:46:54
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Dirty Ron should have been 'let go' after the 2009/10 season…last year FOR SURE. His 'style' of coaching is totally passe. LAST year at the all-star break the players were polled and Dirty Ron was named as the one NHL coach the vast majority did NOT want to play for. How's THAT gonna attract free agents to Toronto?
A mirage start to THIS season saved Dirty Ron. But then reality nestled back into place. 4 years of no penalty kill worth a tinker's damn. F O U R!!! The ONLY constant in that penalty kill is Dirty Ron. [and his inefficient 'system'] He was supposed to be a specialist in that regard. Specialist my eye!!!
The team is disorganized. They seemingly have no plan for moving the puck out of their own zone. They have no workable systems. Why? They have NO head coach. Just Dirty Ron.
Brian Burke....I'm talking to you.
Lose Dirty Ron or you too will be heading out of town sometime next season. John Ferguson Jr. had a better record with the Leafs. You guys pretty much suck...BIG TIME.
[I've been a Leaf fan all my life. THIS era is just a horror show. Harold Ballard lives through these 2 under-achievers. It's the nightmare that will not stop recurring.]
Lee Marshall |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2012 : 08:05:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4889
Dirty Ron should have been 'let go' after the 2009/10 season…last year FOR SURE. His 'style' of coaching is totally passe. LAST year at the all-star break the players were polled and Dirty Ron was named as the one NHL coach the vast majority did NOT want to play for. How's THAT gonna attract free agents to Toronto?
A mirage start to THIS season saved Dirty Ron. But then reality nestled back into place. 4 years of no penalty kill worth a tinker's damn. F O U R!!! The ONLY constant in that penalty kill is Dirty Ron. [and his inefficient 'system'] He was supposed to be a specialist in that regard. Specialist my eye!!!
The team is disorganized. They seemingly have no plan for moving the puck out of their own zone. They have no workable systems. Why? They have NO head coach. Just Dirty Ron.
Brian Burke....I'm talking to you.
Lose Dirty Ron or you too will be heading out of town sometime next season. John Ferguson Jr. had a better record with the Leafs. You guys pretty much suck...BIG TIME.
[I've been a Leaf fan all my life. THIS era is just a horror show. Harold Ballard lives through these 2 under-achievers. It's the nightmare that will not stop recurring.]
Lee Marshall
Lee, i'm just curious, where'd the "Dirty Ron" come from? Between that and guest6835's comment about Phaneuf and Wilson "holding each others corn", this thread is actually becoming pretty amusing! |
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2012 : 09:36:30
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Beans those items i listed will make the leafs a possible division leader, competing with Boston for the title.
Even without those peices right now, the leafs ( with a good defensive system in place and a real coach ) are good enough to make the playoffs....
What you refer to are 2 totally diffrent things...like i always say...you take peoples comments and twist them into something they are not really portraying.
Wilson is a lousy coach......you said Wilson is using the only system he can with the players he has to utilize......
How can you have a run and gun system with ...1 scoring line..and 2 goalies ranking at 39 th and 42 nd overall in the entire NHL in GAA.....plus a drastically under - achieving defensively core ???
The only system Wilson can use with the players he has is a defensive trap....total defensive system......shut down the other team and wait for the likes of kessel, Lupul, Grab, Maca, Conn, Lomb to jump on turn - overs and break the other way.
Wilson is going opposite to this system and that is why the team can`t win a game....Wilson is a moron. He is trying the 1980`s Edmonton Oilers approach to winning games.......the trouble is, he doesn`t have Gretzky, Kurri, Messier, Anderson, Coffey and Grant Fuhr......
Hers a list of goals the leafs needed to score over the last 10 games they played in order to beat their opponents by ONE goal.... ( 5 )...( 6 )...( 6 )...( 4 )... ( 7 )...( 5 )...( 3 )...( 5 )...( 6 )...( 6 )...
They had to score an average of 5.3 goals per game over that 10 game span....Wilsons run and gun is sure working !!!...Moron
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Guest4889
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Posted - 03/01/2012 : 11:02:18
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Alex...I always refer to those I don't hold in esteem as "Dirty" fill in the blank...in this case Ron.
He's quite the wind-bag. He shows little respect for anyone...press, media or even his own players. Pretty "dirty" to me.
And as he has little to back up his attitude...at least in recent memory...he doesn't have a leg to stand on...clean or dirty. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2012 : 14:14:21
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Duke, did you just call me a moron or call Wilson a moron??? If you called me a moron, please keep within the forum guidelines and leave the personal attacks out. If you called Wilson a moron, please disregard my comment and fire away. It's not against any guideline to name call non-posters.
So, Wilson should be using a trap system?? Is that what I heard?? Ok, what players should be trapping again?? Is it those same players who can't stop the oppositions forwards from completely dominating a game??
You can't run a trap without the right players. Wilson's team has been built for speed and offense. They are missing the goaltending need to play that style of hockey. I completely agree with that. But is that Wilson's fault??
His players are offensive skilled guy, not defensive shutdown guys. And to talk about a team with killer offensive weapons who play the trap, look no further than the Tampa Bay Lightening. How are they doing these days??
Now, on the flip side, take a look at the St Louis Blues. Here is a team who was trying to play a run and gun style with players who should be utilized to play a team defensive game. They failed when they were in a system they were not suited for. Enter Ken Hitchcock and a team defense philosophy and bam, nearly the league leaders.
Unfortunately, I don't think the Leafs have the player to have a team defense/trap system and they don't have the big play goaltending and shut down forward group to play a run and gun style.
No one is twisting anything. There are simply two trains of thought:
One thought is the Leafs have the talent and simply don't have the coaching to win.
The other thoughts is the Leafs don't have the talent to win so the coaching is virtually irrelevant.
I twist nothing, I simply believe the latter of the two thoughts and am providing opinions to support that thought.
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 03/01/2012 : 19:53:24
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LMAO...i was calling Wilson a moron Beans, not you, you should know the difference of that by now.
Anyway, the right coach, ( who is respected by his players ) can have any 1 play total defensive hockey.
Toronto has the PERFECT personnel for a trap...turn-over system...they are very, very fast and would excel with this plan...their team speed would be a huge asset in intercepting netural zone pucks and turning the play the other way.
As for the trap not working for Tampa Bay.....what has worked for TB since the departure of the ...Bulin Wall...after their stanley cup win. I`ve always said and truely believe that without one of the better goalies in the league on your team...you have nothing !!!
TB`s goal - tending is worst than TO`s...their defense is non - existent...thats their problem, not the trap.
Getting back on topic........this will not work right now with Ron Wilson behind the bench because he doesn`t have player respect...he has thrown too many players under the bus with his personel attacks. He could have implemented this defense first when he arrived in TO...but not anymore, its too late.
Time for Ronnie to move on, why would you even want to stay there when the fans are chanting...fire Wilson ?? |
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mandree888
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
400 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2012 : 06:19:59
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wilson must go. lets look at a couple older head coaches from the leafs. Pat quinn missed play offs once and was fired. (with a worse team)
Paul maurice missed i beleive 2 or three times maybee 4 i dont rememeber and was fired (with the same team)
now with a better team Wilson is about to miss for the fourth time! Leafs fans are about to loose their minds because he is still behind the bench loosing with a better balanced team than we have had in years!
granted both quinn and PM were with the fully inept and the "lets send all of our young guys to other teams" happy GM of john ferguson jr but still i do think (my personall opinion) that wilson must go. i dont thin he is the right fit for what the leafs need right now |
Edited by - mandree888 on 03/02/2012 06:27:48 |
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Guest4377
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Posted - 03/02/2012 : 17:40:56
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| Going, going.....GONE!! |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 03/03/2012 : 04:57:10
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This is proof that griping, when done effectively enough on PUH, CAN make change happen! 
Good riddance Ron, don't let the bus run over you on your way out. And yes, that is the same bus that you threw your players under, especially the goalies . . . lol
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Ron Wilson?? 
