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sahis34
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
591 Posts |
 Posted - 04/17/2012 : 19:35:44
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Poll Question:
What SHOULD shanny do to torres after his devastating hit on Hossa?
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Edited by - sahis34 on 04/17/2012 19:36:21
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Guest8875
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Posted - 04/17/2012 : 20:09:16
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| I should say 'I don't know what to do' and retire. |
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Guest8875
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Posted - 04/17/2012 : 20:10:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest8875
I should say 'I don't know what to do' and retire.
He should.. |
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semin-rules
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1915 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2012 : 21:04:20
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It is going to be a lot of games.
- Torres is a repeat offender, twice this year.
- He went for Hossa's head
- He left his feet
- It was a late hit
- It was intentional
I am sure it will be 5 games+
I hope Hossa is not seriously injured and will make a full recovery. |
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Clatts
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
266 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2012 : 23:05:08
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This might be one where Shanny comes down hard. Why you say, it's not because he left his feet, not because he made contact with his head and it's not because Torres is a repeat offender. It is simply because Hossa is a star and Torres is not.
Should be 5 games for Torres and damn it Shanny might just give him all 5
"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."
Don Cherry on Visors |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 04/17/2012 : 23:54:11
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quote:
Originally posted by semin-rules
I am sure it will be 5 games+
Really? You're "sure"? I don't know how anyone can be so certain. I'm gonna go the other way and taking into consideration the lack of consistency in suspensions and predict he gets a Weber-like $2500 fine! 
AKA, i agree that he'll get the book thrown at him due to his lack of star power compared to that of Hossa. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2012 : 04:38:28
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Just saw the replay of the hit this morning. Who stays up to watch a Phoenix game on a schoolnight?
It was definitely a hit that was intended to injure, no doubt; a non-hockey play, IMHO. I don't see it as a true "head-hunting" hit, but with Torres' long and storied history of this stuff . . . I'd have to say 5 playoff games (with the caveat that if he can't miss 5 playoff games, then however many games are left over, double that, and serve it out in the regular season).
It's charging, and intent to injure.
The more I think about the actual context, however . . . I almost want to give out more. I mean, as I was listening to the radio host this morning on the FAN 590, he posed a valid question:
If you are the Phoenix Coyotes coach/GM, and you get to trade off Torres with Hossa . . . you take that trade every day of the year, don't you? I mean, does this kind of seal the series, taking out one of Chicago's most valuable players? I'd say it goes a long way towards it . . . so where is the punishment for a franchise that can wantonly target star players with their grinders and checkers, in order to win and get an edge?
So in the end, here is what I think should be done with this hit:
1) Suspend the player Torres for 5 playoff games, and an additional 10 regular season games
2) Fine the coach a hefty amount (probably some max allowable fine) and suspend him for a game
To me, there has to be accountability
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
Edited by - n/a on 04/18/2012 05:26:28 |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2012 : 05:48:02
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To the point of accountability, maybe some guys just never get it. One of the sports shows (TSN or RSN) showed not only the interview with Torres after this game but also the game when he blew up Seabrook as a member of Canucks. In both cases he denied the hits being illegal and used the, "I was just finishing my check," nonsense.
Repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat offender. Throw the book at him.
Slozo brings up a point that was discussed briefly in the past. What is the repercussion to a team in this case? If they lose Torres for the rest of the series it is unlikely that changed the outcome of the series. The Hawks losing Hossa for the rest of the series will change the outcome. The most difficult question to answer is how to make that equitable. Do you let the opposition chose the player to sit out? Perhaps teams and coaches would hold their players more accountable if it wasn't only the player causing the incident doing the time. Say if Torres gets 5 games, the Hawks could pick any PHX player to sit out those game. What is the likelihood that PHX wins the series with Smith serving those 5 games?
To all those who might say that's not fair, ask Marion Hossa how fair it is that he was carted off on a stretcher. Ask Marc Savard how fair it is that his career is basically over. It's a out stopping this crap from happening In a game and, based on this years playoffs, the current strategy is not working at all.
Finally, after years of defending the refs against the constant bombardment of attacks even I have to admit that these playoffs, at least to this point, has been the poorest officiated hockey I can recall watching in my life. To paraphrase Joel Quinville, how does a hit like that happen and not one of the four officials see it? There was a linesmen right there who actually had to protect himself from Hossa's stick swinging as he was going down.
It might be a tie between what I think is more disgousting: the dirty play or the poor officiating.
Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!! |
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Guest6534
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Posted - 04/18/2012 : 07:33:16
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I don't think he was finishing a "hit" or making a hockey play. He was definitely going for a big hit. From the clip, you can see that he targeted the hit from afar anticipating Hossa's pass and curl around.
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2012 : 08:13:35
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Hossa is my favorite former Senator and as such I may be a little biased. I haven't seen the replay and would like someone to throw up a link. Based on comments made I am assuming this is more the type of play I would like to see removed from the game. How bout a match suspension to the length of the injury, and as offered by a poster a 1 game suspension to the offending team picked by the victimized team, Forward for forward defensman for defenseman and such. Players like Torres removed from the game for an extended length of time and real hurt on the offending team.
Like I have stated in other posts, I'd like these series to be decided by the skilled players on the ice not the players taken from the roster by an illegal play. |
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Guest8384
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Posted - 04/18/2012 : 08:57:57
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I personally feel this hit was not that bad. I don't think it was worse than Schenn's. A little late but I didn't see it in full speed. I don't think it was to the head.
A couple of points.
As far as the injury matching the suspension that will never work. As an example. Philly and Pens Series . Pronger (if he was playing) hits Asham in the head with an elbow in the last game of the year (assuming it is a dirty hit and suspendable). Knowing they are playing each other 1st round. I don't think Pittsburgh will rush Asham back, they will take their time and evaluate his post concussion syndrome.
This whole playoff has gotten out of hand the minute Weber wasn't suspended. That wasn't a hockey play and he should have been suspended. |
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Guest2187
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Posted - 04/18/2012 : 09:11:57
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| If its hossa hitting torres all of you would probably say a fine to a 1 game suspension |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2012 : 09:37:24
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Hey Pronger is not a saint here and if Asham is held outta the lineup for a couple of games to teach a player to withhold a dirty play so be it. A star player throwing a dirty elbow high on a non star player would teach the star players to pick there game up too.quote:
Originally posted by Guest8384
I personally feel this hit was not that bad. I don't think it was worse than Schenn's. A little late but I didn't see it in full speed. I don't think it was to the head.
A couple of points.
As far as the injury matching the suspension that will never work. As an example. Philly and Pens Series . Pronger (if he was playing) hits Asham in the head with an elbow in the last game of the year (assuming it is a dirty hit and suspendable). Knowing they are playing each other 1st round. I don't think Pittsburgh will rush Asham back, they will take their time and evaluate his post concussion syndrome.
This whole playoff has gotten out of hand the minute Weber wasn't suspended. That wasn't a hockey play and he should have been suspended.
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Cyclonis
Top Prospect
Canada
56 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2012 : 09:44:35
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Yes actually, IF Hossa suddenly head hunted Torres, he would get one game...he has NEVER done it before. This is what Repeat offender means.
To answer Beans, simply no way to make things equitable...Hossa is out, nothing you can do but look after his health now.
To answer the original question, 5 games; he is a repeat offender (lots of these hits TSN showed 4 different suspensions for him last night) and while it maybe should be more...it is the playoiffs and the suspended games mean more. |
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Guest4600
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Posted - 04/18/2012 : 10:18:13
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Nothing More then a $2500.00 dollar fine .. Clean Hit .. No intention to injurie if he didnt have Whip lash he would be just Fine.. He didn't hit his Head shoulder to Cheast Nice Hit .. Raffiiiiii...Beside Jumping 100 feet in the Air...
Shanny is a Tool and Shoudn't be handing out Suspention's.... |
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freddyboy
Rookie
Canada
218 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2012 : 10:22:52
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well he's suspended indefinitely, at least until friday (date of his hearing with Shanahan)
joe is a god, if u dont agree....i dont care |
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Guest8384
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Posted - 04/18/2012 : 10:40:36
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@Joshua
I was only using Pronger as an example in the sense he is much more valuable than the player he injured. I know Pronger is no saint (couldn't imagine the series with him playing)
I think teams would take advantage of this in having their player make sure they are 100% healthy before they come back. |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2012 : 11:32:50
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See to me that sounds reasonable. I would take advantage of that too. It aint gonna happen but I could make an arguement for it.
As to the Torres hit, wow that was a hell of a hit. I am not in any way standing up for Torres as I did not see the game and had to watch a replay to view the hit. What the hell was Hossa doing turning away from the play and directly into Torres. No question it was a head shot and Torres left his feet. I think Torres was as surprised as Hossa when Hossa had turned and lined himself up for that monster check. Agreed Torres is a repeat offender and the injury could be sever. Just dont understand what Hossa was doing turning into the check like he did.quote:
Originally posted by Guest8384
@Joshua
I was only using Pronger as an example in the sense he is much more valuable than the player he injured. I know Pronger is no saint (couldn't imagine the series with him playing)
I think teams would take advantage of this in having their player make sure they are 100% healthy before they come back.
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Guest2187
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Posted - 04/18/2012 : 13:27:30
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| Im confused with this repeat offender ruling because say Cooke laid the hit ... with all the changes he made and the clean season he has had the repeat offender makes the suspension automatically 6 games? No way to wipe the slate clean? Just doesn't seem fair to me. If Jagr makes a dirty hit are they gonna take things into consideration from the 90's (dunno if there is actually a history lol) |
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semin-rules
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1915 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2012 : 14:56:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest2187
Im confused with this repeat offender ruling because say Cooke laid the hit ... with all the changes he made and the clean season he has had the repeat offender makes the suspension automatically 6 games? No way to wipe the slate clean? Just doesn't seem fair to me. If Jagr makes a dirty hit are they gonna take things into consideration from the 90's (dunno if there is actually a history lol)
Torres got suspended twice this season, I think those offences are still relevant if you ask me! |
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foolpittier
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
374 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2012 : 15:14:11
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Late but clean
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Guest2187
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Posted - 04/18/2012 : 15:39:23
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| no I totally agree just saying like If it was cooke who hit Schenn instead of Asham ... although he had a clean season does it still mean its 3+ more games then what Asham got? |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2012 : 16:51:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Slozo brings up a point that was discussed briefly in the past. What is the repercussion to a team in this case? If they lose Torres for the rest of the series it is unlikely that changed the outcome of the series. The Hawks losing Hossa for the rest of the series will change the outcome. The most difficult question to answer is how to make that equitable. Do you let the opposition chose the player to sit out? Perhaps teams and coaches would hold their players more accountable if it wasn't only the player causing the incident doing the time. Say if Torres gets 5 games, the Hawks could pick any PHX player to sit out those game. What is the likelihood that PHX wins the series with Smith serving those 5 games?
To all those who might say that's not fair, ask Marion Hossa how fair it is that he was carted off on a stretcher. Ask Marc Savard how fair it is that his career is basically over. It's a out stopping this crap from happening In a game and, based on this years playoffs, the current strategy is not working at all.
Beans....a couple of things to note. First, interesting idea about teams picking the player to sit, though i think superstars like Crosby, Stamkos, etc would be spending a lot of time sitting as they'd be the obvious choices each and every time a guy on their respected teams got punished! Second, i heard a really good suggestion yesterday, that being, the team has to play a man short for each game that player is suspended. In other words, they could only dress 17 instead of 18 skaters for the entire length of the suspension. Not sure that would solve the problem, but it would make it a little more interesting either way!
What i'm having a hard time fathoming, and i'm not sure if it's been discussed in any thread so far today, is the response Quenville had last night to the hit on Hossa. His disgust at the "disgraceful refereeing" and the brutality of the Torres hit on Hossa, etc is just, but kinda laughable at the same time when you consider the Keith hit on Sedin. I guess it's the memory of convenience that we often see. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2012 : 17:55:47
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Hey Alex, not to condone the Keith hit, but there was a penalty called on that play wasn't there?
There wasn't a penalty called on the Torres hit. For that matter, it's pretty hard to argue Quinvilles comments.v
He do 4 guys miss that hit?
Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!! |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2012 : 18:35:18
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| Fair enough Beans, but a 2 min minor? Have a look at both hits. Then tell me this. At high speed, which one is more obviously a suspendable hit, a penalty for sure, etc? I think it's just as bad that Keith only got 2mins as it is that Torres went unpenalized. I didn't see the Torres hit when it happened, only on replays later but i heard it was instantly debated as to it's brutality. Some still say it wasn't a head shot and that it was more of a whiplash injury from the force of the hit and that the illegal part was the charging part of it (leaving his feet). I'm not saying both weren't brutal, but the disgraceful reffing that Quenville referred to is was just as bad, if not worse on the Keith hit! |
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Clatts
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
266 Posts |
Posted - 04/18/2012 : 21:41:09
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quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
Like I have stated in other posts, I'd like these series to be decided by the skilled players on the ice not the players taken from the roster by an illegal play.
Funny, in the Carkner thread you seem to be a huge fan of illegal plays
"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."
Don Cherry on Visors |
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Guest4793
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Posted - 04/18/2012 : 22:22:53
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I am no fan of Torres and certainly like that he is suspended, and deservedly so. I believe his intent was to aim high without regard for Hossa's head (meaning it was a head shot)
where i think the league fails though, is that I see lots of late hits after guys dump the puck in. Its just that they arent unsuspecting or it doesnt result in such a devastating hit (usually).
I think the refs/league lose some legitimacy when they allow body checking late like that.
that Torres was targeting and trying to level a star player isnt his crime in my opinion and shouldnt be held against him. Browns hit on Hank Sedin for me was a clean hard hit and if Sedin was injured in the play, then thats hockey.
That Torres did so in a cheap manner, late and high warrants the suspension.
thats my two cents.
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2012 : 07:49:28
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Hey Clatts, reread the post you talked about in the Carkner debate. I posted this comment there as well where I suggested the skilled players decide the outcome of the game, not the illegal plays and supported a suspension of Carkner. You argued against a player on the roster standing up for a skilled teamate and throwing a punch. Although a punch is a penalized game infraction it is not nearly as dangerous as an open ice check at full speed. I cant help it if you arent able to understand my arguement or unwilling to hear my side of a debate.quote:
Originally posted by Clatts
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
Like I have stated in other posts, I'd like these series to be decided by the skilled players on the ice not the players taken from the roster by an illegal play.
Funny, in the Carkner thread you seem to be a huge fan of illegal plays
"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."
Don Cherry on Visors
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Edited by - JOSHUACANADA on 04/19/2012 07:52:01 |
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@valanche
Rookie
Canada
240 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2012 : 08:18:36
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quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
You argued against a player on the roster standing up for a skilled teamate and throwing a punch. Although a punch is a penalized game infraction it is not nearly as dangerous as an open ice check at full speed. I cant help it if you arent able to understand my arguement or unwilling to hear my side of a debate.
i disagree completely. punching an unsuspecting victim or unwilling participant (asham, carkner) is not a hockey play. this is what needs to be removed from the game as it is intent to injure and complete cheap shots. at least an open ice hit is a part of the game whether or not hossa wanted to get hit. (not saying the hit was clean it is a suspension based on torres leaving his feet and targeting the head)
66 is > than 99 |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2012 : 08:34:05
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| So what your saying is a player throwing a punch against another player is worse than an openice headshot at full speed, where a player leaves his feet and the other play is caught unaware with his head down. Ok. I dont agree, but if thats your opinion fine. One player left on a stretcher and the other returned on another shift and score a goal. Imagine Carkner was on the Blackhawks on Torres shift after that hit and punched Torres once knocking him to the ground. No injury to Torres but Chicago feels a measurment of justice for an illegal play by Torres. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2012 : 09:45:37
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quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
So what your saying is a player throwing a punch against another player is worse than an openice headshot at full speed, where a player leaves his feet and the other play is caught unaware with his head down. Ok. I dont agree, but if thats your opinion fine. One player left on a stretcher and the other returned on another shift and score a goal. Imagine Carkner was on the Blackhawks on Torres shift after that hit and punched Torres once knocking him to the ground. No injury to Torres but Chicago feels a measurment of justice for an illegal play by Torres.
Sure Joshua, but while we're imagining this, why don't you imagine this........When Carkner punches Torres once as you put it, Torres is KO'd, falls head first to the ice and suffers a career changine concussion. You keep referencing back to Boyle not being injured by the sucker punch and refuse to aknowledge that he could have been seriously hurt from what was more of an "assault" than it was a "hockey play".
Torres is a bad example because he's a repeat offender with a reputation of a headhunter. Take for instance the Brown hit on Sedin. Now, "WHAT IF" he hit him a couple inches higher (total headshot)? Or what if Sedin had his head down a litte more as he turned? Again, total head shot! Now that play, that is already borderline legal, becomes totally illegal, yet he was attempting to make a clean body check that missed or one that he'd committed to when Sedin lowered his head. Either way, he's still punished severely for a headshot. BUT, at least it occured as he was trying to make a legal hockey play. Explain to me how Carkners sucker punch was even remotely legal!!! |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2012 : 11:56:54
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Ok, since we are using what if's here, do you think Jesus woulda been a 1st line scorer or a 4th line checker.
Either way whats done is done and 1 player is injured and the other is not.
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2012 : 14:47:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
Fair enough Beans, but a 2 min minor? Have a look at both hits. Then tell me this. At high speed, which one is more obviously a suspendable hit, a penalty for sure, etc? I think it's just as bad that Keith only got 2mins as it is that Torres went unpenalized. I didn't see the Torres hit when it happened, only on replays later but i heard it was instantly debated as to it's brutality. Some still say it wasn't a head shot and that it was more of a whiplash injury from the force of the hit and that the illegal part was the charging part of it (leaving his feet). I'm not saying both weren't brutal, but the disgraceful reffing that Quenville referred to is was just as bad, if not worse on the Keith hit!
When you get to crap hits, does it matter which one is worse??
Kidding aside, the elbow that Keith threw was pretty gross. Appearance wise, it was harder to watch than the Torres hit. However, I don't think Quinville ever said otherwise, did he?? You can't really fault a coach for not throwing his own player under the bus, can you??
I think AV would like make the same kind of comments if he was in Quinville's shoes so I don't see the value in the comments. Coaches back their own teams and that is what Quinville did.
Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!! |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 04/19/2012 : 22:39:24
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Beans, fair enough. I def exaggerated my feeling saying it was "unfathomable" when in fact you're correct, any coach would come to his players defence.
Joshua....no offense, but your most recent post is pathetic. It's unworthy of a response and wreaks of you finally admitting you're wrong but just won't admit it. I'm done arguing with a guy who can't admit the truth.
Now I'M OUT! |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2012 : 10:17:03
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| I have just decided to keep this topic about Torres and not respond to what if's already discussed about on another thread. |
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Guest0168
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Posted - 04/20/2012 : 14:25:16
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Alex do you only respond to Bean's posts and get frustrated with all the others? Looking at a couple other topic this happened.
With that aside, IMO Torres hit was very dirty and should deserve at least 6 playoff games if not more, transitioning into the next season. Shanny, bring down the hammer. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2012 : 20:05:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest0168
Alex do you only respond to Bean's posts and get frustrated with all the others? Looking at a couple other topic this happened.
No, not at all. In fact, if you looked at more than just a couple, you'd see how far off base you are with that comment. I'm not about to waste my time showing you examples. They're there if you wanna see them. |
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freddyboy
Rookie
Canada
218 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2012 : 09:10:13
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NEW YORK -- Phoenix Coyotes forward Raffi Torres has been suspended for 25 games for launching himself to deliver a late hit to the head of Chicago Blackhawks forward Marian Hossa during Game 3 of the teams' Western Conference Quarterfinal playoff series in Chicago on Tuesday, April 17, the National Hockey League's Department of Player Safety announced today.
Should the 25 games not be served by the conclusion of the 2012 Stanley Cup Playoffs, the remaining games of the suspension will carry over into the following regular season. Torres will be prohibited from playing in any preseason games until he has served this 25-game suspension (playoff and regular-season games).
Should the suspension carry over to next season, because he is classified as a repeat offender under the Collective Bargaining Agreement, Torres will forfeit $21,341.46 in salary for every regular-season game in which he is ineligible to play.
The incident occurred at 11:42 of the first period. Hossa suffered an injury as a result of the hit.
Torres already has served one game of this suspension, Game 4 of the series in Chicago on Thursday, April 19. For a full explanation of the decision, complete with video, please click on the following link: http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?catid=60&id=173753.
joe is a god, if u dont agree....i dont care |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2012 : 12:54:25
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Shanahan finally got a decision correct in the playoffs. I watched the entire video and it's hard to argue anything that Shanahan says.
25 games is more than I expected but I actually think that's a good thing. Torres is simply dangerous. He continuously feed that finished my check crap and has never shown remorse for any injury he dished out.
He's a piece of crap who deserves everything he has gotten.
Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!! |
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semin-rules
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1915 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2012 : 13:04:41
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| I bet this will get the message across to Torres, just like it did with Matt Cooke. He turned his whole game around this year, and I am sure this will be an eye opener for Torres if he wants to stay in this league. |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2012 : 13:25:57
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| Almost 3rd of his salary, poof gone, should the Coyotes have an early exit. Shanahan sure sent a message. Glad the message was sent. Might clean up a lot for round 2. |
Edited by - JOSHUACANADA on 04/21/2012 13:27:49 |
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Topic |
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Torres hit on Hossa! 
