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fat_elvis_rocked
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
 Posted - 04/21/2012 : 14:19:58
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That is exactly the right suspension in my opinion, backed up wonderfully with the Shanahan's explanation of intent, and more importantly history.
I am not sure if I would go so far as to call Torres a piece of crap, but he certainly does deserve this length of suspension and can hopefully reform his game.
Good job Shanny! Hopefully, this trend is the start, and players 'get it', before anyone else gets hurt. |
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2012 : 15:04:50
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quote:
Originally posted by fat_elvis_rocked
Good job Shanny! Hopefully, this trend is the start, and players 'get it', before anyone else gets hurt.
That is really the heart of it. While I applaud this suspension to Torres, the reality is that its only going to be meaningful if Shanny continues to dish out hard suspension for dangerous plays, and that this is the beginning of something new - not just a one off chance to make a statement.
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Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro
640 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2012 : 16:59:38
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quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
Almost 3rd of his salary, poof gone, should the Coyotes have an early exit. Shanahan sure sent a message. Glad the message was sent. Might clean up a lot for round 2.
Actually I read where the CBA does not allow fines during the playoffs because the players only make bonus money in the playoffs not regular salary.
So if the suspension is carried over to the regular season next yr Torres gets fined 21,000 per game, no fine during the playoffs.
I LOVE THE OTTAWA SENATORS |
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Clatts
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
266 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2012 : 17:12:11
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25 games is a lot, I have no problem with it as long as it is the new standard. I'm not sure you can go from giving Weber a fine and Carkner 1 game and then give Torres 25 games.
But it goes to show you can't hurt star players
"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."
Don Cherry on Visors |
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Russcores
Top Prospect
Canada
5 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2012 : 19:10:48
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Still the suspensions to the offending player only hurts the player by not playing and the pocket book in the regular season. It still does not seem to stop certain players from dishing out these cheap shot predatory type actions. I believe that if these players were to hurt the teams chances at winning some of his teamates may step up and police the actions themselves. I think that for the length of the suspension the team can not fill his roster spot in the line-up , thus leaving his teamates playing the game with less players available. In the playoffs especially this would create a disadvantage for his team for the duration of the suspension .
Any thoughts on how that scenario may affect a players decision on crossing the line too far ? Or the veterans on the team policing there own bad apples ? |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2012 : 19:35:01
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There will always be some inequality due to the situation . . . obviously, losing Torres for that amount of games doesn't hurt Phoenix as much as Hossa for a fraction of that amount. But not much can be done about that.
What can - and WAS done - is make the length of suspension so onerous for these 3rd and 4th liners, that they either never do it again, or, teams sour super-quick on wasting money for these guys. And this is the right call, 25 games for a guy who REALLY doesn't get it, and who is a head hunting guy who is only out there to take out star players.
Good on Shanahan.
Now, do I wish he had given Weber a 2 game suspension? Yep. Do I think Keith deserved a game or two himself for that elbow? Yep. But . . . it's not a perfect world, and the thing those guys have in common is that they are star players for their team with little to no history at all of reckless behaviour. It doesn't condone it, but . . . at least a hockey fan can feel like the really bad apples are getting appropriately thrown out.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2012 : 21:54:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Russcores
Still the suspensions to the offending player only hurts the player by not playing and the pocket book in the regular season. It still does not seem to stop certain players from dishing out these cheap shot predatory type actions. I believe that if these players were to hurt the teams chances at winning some of his teamates may step up and police the actions themselves. I think that for the length of the suspension the team can not fill his roster spot in the line-up , thus leaving his teamates playing the game with less players available. In the playoffs especially this would create a disadvantage for his team for the duration of the suspension .
Any thoughts on how that scenario may affect a players decision on crossing the line too far ? Or the veterans on the team policing there own bad apples ?
Russcores.....you from Van by any chance?  i Heard a caller to the team1040 suggest the same thing the other day whereby a team would play one roster spot down for the length of the suspension!
I was pleasantly surprised at the length of the suspension to Torres, but i have to say it really makes it look like Shanny missed the boat on some of the others. Really wish a guy like Torres or Carkner was the first brutal hit of the playoffs, rather than Weber. At least then there might have been a little more consistency??? |
Edited by - Alex116 on 04/21/2012 21:56:05 |
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Guest9782
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Posted - 04/22/2012 : 19:01:55
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| ha hhhh aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa |
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Guest7792
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Posted - 04/23/2012 : 09:27:56
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| shanahan is all over the place with these suspensions. if you compare the hit to others, Keith on Hank for example, I dont see it being 5 times worse. Even with him being a repeat offender it doesn't make sense. don't get me wrong the hits to the head are turning me off the game and now living in the uk I am watching more football than hockey nowadays. i think there is a website, shanabans dot com or something - was following all suspensions he gave out. If i had time it would be interesting to review the season because it seems brendan has been on the pipe for a lot of it. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2012 : 11:03:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest7792
shanahan is all over the place with these suspensions. if you compare the hit to others, Keith on Hank for example, I dont see it being 5 times worse. Even with him being a repeat offender it doesn't make sense. don't get me wrong the hits to the head are turning me off the game and now living in the uk I am watching more football than hockey nowadays. i think there is a website, shanabans dot com or something - was following all suspensions he gave out. If i had time it would be interesting to review the season because it seems brendan has been on the pipe for a lot of it.
It's not about the hit being 5 times worse. It's about the action and the player involved.
To those who think the Keith suspension was 'soft', consider any other player in the history of the league who went from being known as a reasonably clean player with very few PIM's considering they minutes played who had their very first disciplinary action being a 5 game suspension.
It doesn't happen often. For that matter 5 games for Keith is comparable to 25 for Torres considering this is his 5th suspension. I would expect that Keith would get 25 games if he was suspended 3 times in one year for the same type of hit.
Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!! |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2012 : 11:06:36
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There's def been NO consistency. NO WAY Torres deserves 5 times what others are getting (and more), even if he is a repeat offender. I hope it helps change his game though much like it did Cooke as i believe Rafi does have some skills that are usefull to a team if he can control his craziness.
I'm not even sure that if Weber had gotten say 3 games if we'd be looking at less bad hits right now but it couldn't have been any worse! My question is, now that Torres has been hammered by this suspension, what happens to the next guy, especially if he's a superstar or even above avg offender? Let's say for example, David Backes creams someone with a hit like Bitz got Clifford with. Is he gonna get 3? 5? 15? THAT'S what i'm looking forward to seeing! |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2012 : 12:35:55
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I dont think they are elevating the suspension based on the order received. I think they are looking at the nature of the play, nature of the player and they are now taking into account the nature or severity of the injury. What I dont like is when there is no injury he kinda shrugs his shoulders.quote:
Originally posted by Alex116
There's def been NO consistency. NO WAY Torres deserves 5 times what others are getting (and more), even if he is a repeat offender. I hope it helps change his game though much like it did Cooke as i believe Rafi does have some skills that are usefull to a team if he can control his craziness.
I'm not even sure that if Weber had gotten say 3 games if we'd be looking at less bad hits right now but it couldn't have been any worse! My question is, now that Torres has been hammered by this suspension, what happens to the next guy, especially if he's a superstar or even above avg offender? Let's say for example, David Backes creams someone with a hit like Bitz got Clifford with. Is he gonna get 3? 5? 15? THAT'S what i'm looking forward to seeing!
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Lee Marshall
Rookie
Canada
102 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2012 : 09:52:47
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I'm not convinced that the hit was nearly as bad as it's been made out to be. Whatshisname from Ottawa laid one out that looked very similar a couple of days ago. 25 games? Over-kill. IF there had to be a suspension...based mostly on Raffi's history as much as anything...8 - 10 games would have been plenty.
Who the cap fits...Let them wear it. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2012 : 10:13:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Lee Marshall
I'm not convinced that the hit was nearly as bad as it's been made out to be. Whatshisname from Ottawa laid one out that looked very similar a couple of days ago. 25 games? Over-kill. IF there had to be a suspension...based mostly on Raffi's history as much as anything...8 - 10 games would have been plenty.
Who the cap fits...Let them wear it.
Respectfully,
I am not at all convinced that even a 10 game suspension would have sent as clear and loud a message to all repeat offenders, Lee.
25 games puts ALL those guys on notice - you don't get it? We throw the book at you.
It's not like I think there haven't been missed opportunities here to make other statements (Weber's face smashing in particular), but that does not preclude me thinking this one was the correct call - a loud one, that every third and fourth liner will do well to remember.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Lee Marshall
Rookie
Canada
102 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2012 : 10:31:01
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Yes but...I see this Raffi thing as a combination witch hunt, lynch mob thing. The ONLY reason I suggested 8 - 10 is because of PAST history. Not sure that the hit in question was as bad as the RESULT.
So...what was the 25 games for? Yesterday it seems to me.
I do agree that big suspensions are the way to send a clear message...but...it has to be warranted based on the 'current' infraction.
THIS clearly diminishes Torres' value. He may be darned close to unemployable because of this. What's next for him? 50 games? What team's gonna tie up a roster spot with that hanging overhead?
I hope he appeals. Looks to me like Shanny reacted to the mob and in doing so went overboard.
Who the cap fits...Let them wear it. |
Edited by - Lee Marshall on 04/24/2012 10:33:28 |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2012 : 11:17:18
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Overboard? C'mon.
There is no sport that does not react similarly for those who are repeat offenders. If a MLB player gets caught doing steroid multiple times the punishment is more severe. If a football player repeated hit opponents to the head their punishment increases every time.
What would 8 games do? Prove that the NHL has no control over their league and players can do what ever they want. This suspension was dead on right. The only thing I would like to see is more of these. If the NHL is serious about getting these kinds of hits out of the league than they need to get serious with their discipline.
Torres is not the victim and should not be treated as such. It's a good thing if Torres can't find a job because he is a dangerous player who has intentionally injured opponents on multiple occasions. Playing hockey as a profession is not a right, it's a privilege. It should be treated as a privilege and not taken for granted.
I, for one, would not miss anything about Raffi Torres if he never played another game of hockey and I wouldn't feel sorry for him for one second. I can't see how it dimishes his value. In my opinion he is already worthless.
Daniel Alfredsson is the MVP of the universe. All hail the Ottawa Senators!!!!! |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2012 : 11:17:59
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| I disagree, Torres hit was a premeditated leaping, head hunting, late blindsided attack which was agressive in nature with intent to injure and is Torres M.O. He has so many highlight reel hit's many of which were suspendable dirty plays and a few in which he was. He hasn't learned and doesn't see the consequences of his actions. His hit may well have determined the outcome of the series. I will bet he see's the big picture now. I actually expected a shorter suspension based on Shanahan's weak reaction this post season and think he needed to send a clear message to protect players. |
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Clatts
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
266 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2012 : 16:31:46
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quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
I disagree, Torres hit was a premeditated leaping, head hunting, late blindsided attack which was agressive in nature with intent to injure and is Torres M.O. He has so many highlight reel hit's many of which were suspendable dirty plays and a few in which he was. He hasn't learned and doesn't see the consequences of his actions. His hit may well have determined the outcome of the series. I will bet he see's the big picture now. I actually expected a shorter suspension based on Shanahan's weak reaction this post season and think he needed to send a clear message to protect players.
he needed to send a clear message to protect Star players.
"Most of the guys that wear them are Europeans and French Guys."
Don Cherry on Visors |
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Torres hit on Hossa! 
