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Mikhailova
PickupHockey All-Star
USA
2918 Posts |
 Posted - 06/01/2007 : 19:39:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4462
So you thought Yzerman was way to young to be named captain? Look how that turned out...
Linden too?
Don't be silly. You don't give the C based on age, you give it based on leadership. The team looks to him to win... nuff said.
Yeah, and Sid isn't the best leader on the team. There are three others who don't whine and would've done better. And leadership isn't the only thing, you need experience and familiarity with the NHL which Sid doesn't have enough of, and you need to be mature. There are more mature, experienced players on the Penguins other than Crosby...namely Gonchar, Recchi, and Roberts. Just because Yzerman and Linden did well as young captains are no guarantee that Sid will. He's not bound to follow in the footsteps of every great player that ever lived. Heaven forbid, he is prone to screwing up! Everyone does, even Sidney Crosby. As BigShow said, hoping that Sid will turn out like Yzerman is a lot to risk when there are more capable leaders already on the team. |
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leafsfan_101
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1530 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2007 : 19:59:11
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quote:
Originally posted by I HATE CROSBY
Nope, Sid is just the the michelle Wie of hockey.
He gets all these unwarrented perks b/c he is young and his sport needs more popularity....
Second place is only first place of the losers. |
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leafsfan_101
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1530 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2007 : 20:00:59
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quote:
Originally posted by I HATE CROSBY
Nope, Sid is just the the michelle Wie of hockey.
He gets all these unwarrented perks b/c he is young and his sport needs more popularity....
No, Sid is dominant in his sport while Wie gets all the hype but can't live up to it. Big diffrence.
Second place is only first place of the losers. |
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I HATE CROSBY
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
538 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2007 : 23:41:38
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quote:
Originally posted by leafsfan_101
quote:
Originally posted by I HATE CROSBY
Nope, Sid is just the the michelle Wie of hockey.
He gets all these unwarrented perks b/c he is young and his sport needs more popularity....
No, Sid is dominant in his sport while Wie gets all the hype but can't live up to it. Big diffrence.
Second place is only first place of the losers.
I don't know about that. I'd actually put Sid below Wie based on age. Wie has had many top 10's in the LPGA majors(7 to be exact)......Including a t-9th in 2003 at the kraft nabisco (14 years old!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!). But Sid is close (I'm not that out there, hahaha)...
I really agree with that Wie/Sid simile; they are both overhyped, and both are babies (Wie has a habit of withdrawling from tournies when she fails to perform well, and we can all agree Sid is a baby).
Sugar Ray over Hasek any day! |
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stastnysforever
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
301 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2007 : 10:07:46
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Is Ovechkin captain, because at least he doesn't have any competition, I mean Pittsburgh has recci and Gonchar that could both have it before him,
what do Calgary and a tea bag have in common- they're both only good for one cup |
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Guest4462
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Posted - 06/03/2007 : 12:33:52
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quote:
Originally posted by I HATE CROSBY
quote:
Originally posted by leafsfan_101
quote:
Originally posted by I HATE CROSBY
Nope, Sid is just the the michelle Wie of hockey.
He gets all these unwarrented perks b/c he is young and his sport needs more popularity....
No, Sid is dominant in his sport while Wie gets all the hype but can't live up to it. Big diffrence.
Second place is only first place of the losers.
quote:
Wie has to cheat, fake injuriest, and withdrawl from competitions mid-round just to retain her card and not get kicked off the tour... Crosby wins scoring championships. NO comparison.
I don't know about that. I'd actually put Sid below Wie based on age. Wie has had many top 10's in the LPGA majors(7 to be exact)......Including a t-9th in 2003 at the kraft nabisco (14 years old!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!). But Sid is close (I'm not that out there, hahaha)...
I really agree with that Wie/Sid simile; they are both overhyped, and both are babies (Wie has a habit of withdrawling from tournies when she fails to perform well, and we can all agree Sid is a baby).
Sugar Ray over Hasek any day!
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Guest4462
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Posted - 06/03/2007 : 12:34:38
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Wie has to cheat, fake injuriest, and withdrawl from competitions mid-round just to retain her card and not get kicked off the tour... Crosby wins scoring championships. NO comparison. |
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Guest4462
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Posted - 06/03/2007 : 12:36:45
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| Funny... all you losers who think that you know something about hockey and that Sid didnt deserve the C are starting from a losing position. The *REAL* hockey smart people who do this for a living and who know 1000x more than anyone here, already gave the C to Sid. They KNEW he was ready and was the one. Your arguments were over before they began. |
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I´m also Cånädiön
Rookie
Sweden
217 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2007 : 13:34:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4462
Funny... all you losers who think that you know something about hockey and that Sid didnt deserve the C are starting from a losing position. The *REAL* hockey smart people who do this for a living and who know 1000x more than anyone here, already gave the C to Sid. They KNEW he was ready and was the one. Your arguments were over before they began.
"Never argue with idiots, they will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience" I don´t understand why a smart guy like yourself even bother......but it would be enlightening to hear your opinion on the following matters:
1. Is there anyone else besides Crosby on the team that could be a good captain?
2. Was it the right thing to do/normal procedure to announce his captianity this season?
3. Please name some of the qualities that makes Crosby the best option for a Captain.
The world is not black and white, Pens management can have many reasons to name Crosby Captain including the possibility that he was in fact the best choice, but somehow I doubt that was the only reason especially as Mammon still has a firm grip around many decisions made in america.
But the thing I admire about you the most is your ability to see in to the future, to my knowledge Crosby has not yet played a single game of importance with the C.
(Time differance Pickuphockey-Sweden approx +9 hours 1min 5sek......so I can always blame it on Jetlag.) |
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stastnysforever
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
301 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2007 : 14:03:26
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no doubt, Crosby will be a great leader, I just don't think he's ready yet
what do Calgary and a tea bag have in common- they're both only good for one cup |
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Mikhailova
PickupHockey All-Star
USA
2918 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2007 : 16:33:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4462
Funny... all you losers who think that you know something about hockey and that Sid didnt deserve the C are starting from a losing position. The *REAL* hockey smart people who do this for a living and who know 1000x more than anyone here, already gave the C to Sid. They KNEW he was ready and was the one. Your arguments were over before they began.
No, chances are they gave him the C to add to his collection of records. They wanted him to be the youngest to do something else now too. And if you think Sid is a "real" hockey person, guess what? Last night HE ADMITTED that there were better, veteran players on the team who could've had the C. So if Sid-the smart hockey player who does this for a living-agrees with the rest of us, that must make us "real" hockey people too, and yours is the opinion that differs. |
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Canucks Man
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1547 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2007 : 18:28:11
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MIk, Are you saying that the Pens put Crosbys records above winning? Cause thats what it sounds like. They gave him the C most likely because they figured he was going to be there captain in the next couple of seasons anyway. Plus he is a guy who shows signs of being a true leader, He never takes a shift off, he's vocal and he makes the players around him better. All the players think its a good idea. Also you should no that the Pens offered him the C earlyer in the year and he turned it down because he didnt want to disrupt team chemistry.
CANUCKS RULE!!!
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Guest4462
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Posted - 06/03/2007 : 19:16:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Canucks Man
MIk, Are you saying that the Pens put Crosbys records above winning? Cause thats what it sounds like. They gave him the C most likely because they figured he was going to be there captain in the next couple of seasons anyway. Plus he is a guy who shows signs of being a true leader, He never takes a shift off, he's vocal and he makes the players around him better. All the players think its a good idea. Also you should no that the Pens offered him the C earlyer in the year and he turned it down because he didnt want to disrupt team chemistry.
CANUCKS RULE!!!
Wow! Sound of reason. This is *exactly* the way it is. |
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semin-rules
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1915 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2007 : 19:29:58
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I think he has the skill to hold the C but I don't think Sid himself is ready to have that responisblity....
~~~Let's Go Senators!!!!~~~ |
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Guest4462
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Posted - 06/03/2007 : 19:33:05
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quote:
Originally posted by semin-rules
I think he has the skill to hold the C but I don't think Sid himself is ready to have that responisblity....
~~~Let's Go Senators!!!!~~~
He's had that responsibility and a heckuva lot more pressure and responsibility since he was 14.. and he's succeeded with flying colours... Every hockey person who has met Sid and dealt with him over the last 5 years has been extremely impressed with his maturity.. this aint no normal kid... |
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I HATE CROSBY
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
538 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2007 : 20:06:46
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Mik is totally correct here....This was just a publicity stunt for the Pens and the NHL. To quote Jim Layhey (From The Trailer Park Boys): Sid and the Pens are just "s*** puppets" in the NHL's "s*** puppet show".
I can already see the previews for Pens games on Versus and NBC... it'll go something like this " Sid Crosby continues to dazzle the record books, becoming the youngest captain in NHL history"..........WOW!!!! I'm totally sold; I'm going to go out and buy all sorts of NHL merchandise, especially the new crosby jersey with a C on it....What a Joke
Sugar Ray over Hasek any day! |
Edited by - I HATE CROSBY on 06/03/2007 20:09:13 |
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tctitans
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
931 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2007 : 23:00:34
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quote:
Originally posted by I HATE CROSBY
Mik is totally correct here....This was just a publicity stunt for the Pens and the NHL. To quote Jim Layhey (From The Trailer Park Boys): Sid and the Pens are just "s*** puppets" in the NHL's "s*** puppet show".
I can already see the previews for Pens games on Versus and NBC... it'll go something like this " Sid Crosby continues to dazzle the record books, becoming the youngest captain in NHL history"..........WOW!!!! I'm totally sold; I'm going to go out and buy all sorts of NHL merchandise, especially the new crosby jersey with a C on it....What a Joke
Sugar Ray over Hasek any day!
Hey IHC, I guess you believe in UFOs and all the conspiracy theories as well then, eh? 
Sure there may have been some 'Marketing' motivation for the Pens (*not* NHL) here, but that's life. Still, they wouldnt have done it if they didnt think it was the right hockey move. The nuts and bolts of it is that a winning team is the best marketing tool available, so all decisions made are to support that goal. They simply thought the Sidney's captaincy was the best thing for the hockey club. I will agree that there are a couple other decent choices available, but give it to Crosby still makes the most hockey sense. C'mon, regardless of records, he's still been the best (offensive) player in hockey this year and is getting better every month. The guy is respected by all his peers in the NHL, voted best player by them, and never takes a shift off. He's got captain written all over him.
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I HATE CROSBY
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
538 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2007 : 23:29:17
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no no no tctitans, it's an NHL conspiracy ...Mark my words!
Sugar Ray over Hasek any day! |
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tctitans
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
931 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2007 : 23:36:07
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quote:
Originally posted by I HATE CROSBY
no no no tctitans, it's an NHL conspiracy ...Mark my words!
Owners are way too self-centered and greedy to let the NHL dictate anything unless it clearly puts greenbacks into their pockets.
Pens ownership/management will do what's best for Pens ownership/managment. |
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PainTrain
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1393 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2007 : 06:57:31
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| You know Tctitans what you said is correct I just think to have a better team for the Pens have Recchi or Gonchar the Captain status we don't want Sidney to have too much pressure and I know he is very mature but experience is a big part of leadership and he doesn't have that. He does have Captain written on him but he is just so young and an experienced player like Marc Recchi should have the ''C''. |
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Mikhailova
PickupHockey All-Star
USA
2918 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2007 : 07:45:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Canucks Man
MIk, Are you saying that the Pens put Crosbys records above winning?
If his captaincy would be a factor in them winning games, why didn't they give it to him this year? Why prolong it, as some have said...
I'm sick of arguing this, I don't necessarily agree with the decision but let's all just hope it works out for the better for Pittsburgh nonetheless. |
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Canucks Man
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1547 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2007 : 08:24:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Mikhailova
quote:
Originally posted by Canucks Man
MIk, Are you saying that the Pens put Crosbys records above winning?
If his captaincy would be a factor in them winning games, why didn't they give it to him this year? Why prolong it, as some have said...
I'm sick of arguing this, I don't necessarily agree with the decision but let's all just hope it works out for the better for Pittsburgh nonetheless.
If you read my earlyer post you would no that they did offer t to him this year but he said no because he didnt want to screw up the teams chemistry.
CANUCKS RULE!!!
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Mikhailova
PickupHockey All-Star
USA
2918 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2007 : 10:23:32
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| See that's the thing, they only offer it to him? Even when he turns it down they don't offer it to anyone else and leave their team captainless? It's like they're waiting until he IS ready to accept it. I'm not saying that's the case, but it kinda looks like it. It's suspicious how they didn't just give it to someone else last year after Crosby said no, and the first person they ask this year is him... |
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BigShow
Rookie
177 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2007 : 10:37:01
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I can't believe this is dragging on still... But since it is i'll throw another two cents in.
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4462
Funny... all you losers who think that you know something about hockey and that Sid didnt deserve the C are starting from a losing position. The *REAL* hockey smart people who do this for a living and who know 1000x more than anyone here, already gave the C to Sid. They KNEW he was ready and was the one. Your arguments were over before they began.
So from what you're saying, the *REAL* hockey people know so much more and should never be second guessed. Off the top of my head let's look at some decisions *REAL* hockey people made that i questioned. Questioned wrongly according to you.
- Gilmour to the Leafs along with a couple other NHL players for some pocket lint and Craig Berube.
- Luongo to Vancouver.
- Flames making Fluery captain.
- Lightning making Lecavalier captain.
So now that you have pointed out their infallibility i see that the *REAL* hockey people should not be questioned. They are obviously beyond reproach.
[exit the sarcasm zone]
There have been many young captains, only Linden and Yzerman particularly standout. Crosby does not remind me of them, personality wise. Someone else should have been given the C for a couple more years. Sid would make a better captain two years from now. He should have an A, and learn under Recchi or Roberts.
I'm not trying to take away from Crosby. He is one of the best players in the NHL. He will win scads of trophies through his career. He never takes a night off. He will be one of the elites, and quite possibly one of the all time greats. But tey shouldn't have burdened him with this extra pressure yet. Two years from now? Yes. Now? No, it's more of a marketing decision than a hockey decision. |
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Mikhailova
PickupHockey All-Star
USA
2918 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2007 : 10:51:50
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quote:
Originally posted by tctitans
C'mon, regardless of records, he's still been the best (offensive) player in hockey this year and is getting better every month. The guy is respected by all his peers in the NHL, voted best player by them, and never takes a shift off. He's got captain written all over him.
But the C isn't for the most talented player, it's for the player who has experience and would make the best leader.
BigShow, you're right again. I completely agree. In a few years Sid would be great for the C. Just not yet. |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2007 : 11:21:44
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Wow this topic has gotten a lot of mileage.
I keep reading that he shouldn't have the C because he lacks experience.
Being an effective leader and having experience are not necessarily tied together. There are people who are born leaders. It's a fact of life. It's true whether playing hockey or in the business world. If you lead by example people will naturally follow that lead. I don't believe it's a huge stretch to see Crosby as captain. As has been mentioned already, he never takes a shift off and plays with a high level of intensity. That's the type of leadership that is needed. His whining isn't the issue people make it out to be. Countless others have done and do the same.
Why not wait and see how he does and then pass judgment.
"You are not your desktop wallpaper" |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2007 : 12:46:58
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Ya Willus, I think you are right. Only time will tell weather or not this is a good hockey move. I do tend to agree that there was an intention behind announcing that now rather than next training camp, but it doesn't really matter.
Funny thing is that this favors everyone. If the Pens soar next year, Crosby Fans will say it's because of him being a great player and a great leader. If they tank, the Non-Crosby fans will say it's because he's a poor leader.
Lots of pressure on the kid. I really don't think he will be able to do anything right in the eyes of his critics. And regardless of what he does acheive, I don't think he will be able to ever climb out of the shadows of 99 or 66 for that matter.
I Love your Kids, IHC is the man, and The Oilers Rule. Does that make me insane?? |
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Mikhailova
PickupHockey All-Star
USA
2918 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2007 : 13:59:10
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quote:
Originally posted by willus3
Being an effective leader and having experience are not necessarily tied together. There are people who are born leaders. It's a fact of life. It's true whether playing hockey or in the business world.
I dunno about that. You can't just be a CEO out of the blue, you need years of experience to work up to it and prove you're worthy. Or lets say you want to run for president or PM. Maybe you did student government when you were in school (analogous to Sid's amateur days with Rimouski Oceanic), but if you have only two years of real government experience, would you vote for this guy? I wouldn't, but that's just me. However, there are always exceptions, like Yzerman and Linden, and if all goes well Sid will be one too.
quote:
f you lead by example people will naturally follow that lead.
Assuming it's a good lead.
However willus, you are right. We should just wait and see what happens. I don't think the Pens will tank next year, but if they do I don't think the whole blame should be put on Crosby. It's more likely to be a matter of team chemistry and playing skill. If they do well, some could be attributed to Sid as the captain, but remember they are also a good team, and doing well is not out of the question. If Sid proves to be a good captain, that's great. Then I'll take back everything I've said about experience and all that. I don't want him to suck as a captain, I just think for his own good he should wait. But only time will tell, as Beans said. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2007 : 14:21:45
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Comparing Sport to business in that way is not a fair assessment. How can you say that a guys doesn't become CEO right away yet these guys are getting multi-million dollar contracts and endorsment deals before they even play a game in the NHL? You can not compare business leadership to sports leadership. Business leadership holds 100% responsibility in the success and direction of that business. A captain of a hockey team does not have that responsibility.
And I completely agree that leadership has little to do with experience. Good leaders are natural. Great Leaders are good leaders with experience. There is nothing to indicate that Crosby won't be a good leader. I don't think he will be great right away, but good is something he has the ability to be.
I Love your Kids, IHC is the man, and The Oilers Rule. Does that make me insane?? |
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willus3
Moderator
Canada
1948 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2007 : 14:24:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Mikhailova
quote:
Originally posted by willus3
[quote]I dunno about that. You can't just be a CEO out of the blue, you need years of experience to work up to it and prove you're worthy. [quote]
I know the point you are making but many people confuse leading and managing. These are two completely different things. CEO's are typically managers, but the best ones are a combination of both manager and leader.
Lee Iacocca is a fantastic example of both.
[quote]f you lead by example people will naturally follow that lead.
Assuming it's a good lead.
Yes, you definitely want your leader going in the right direction. There have been some terrible men who did even worse things and yet were incredible leaders. Hitler for one.
"You are not your desktop wallpaper" |
Edited by - willus3 on 06/04/2007 14:26:55 |
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ultimatetitman
Rookie
Canada
244 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2007 : 15:16:57
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God lord. A lot of nothing has been said about this!
Here's a fact for you. Sid is a mere 27 days younger than Vincent Lecavalier was when he was named captain of TB. And look how poorly that's turned out for the Lightning...
Do you really think that the NHL or the Penguins need a conspiracy theory to sell Crosby? Being the youngest to score 100 points and winning the scoring title, all in his second year - a year in which he made only $850,000 - kinda sells itself. And do you really think that sewing a C on his shirt will generate more money or draw more fans? If this is your only arguement, then you don't have an arguement!
I love how Croasy haters absolutely refuse to acknowledge what he has done, but will harp on something that was NOT really even his decision. He lives with Mario... do you not think there was some discussion about all this? This was not an arbitrary, attention starved decision!
And for Pete's sake, he turned down the captaincy at the end of last season, and at the all-star break. He didn't feel he was ready. And he's acknowledged that he may not actually be the best one on his team for the job. You're right... how immature and whiny can one get? |
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Mikhailova
PickupHockey All-Star
USA
2918 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2007 : 18:14:17
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The reason why Sid's talent isn't mentioned is because it's irrelevant. Talent on the ice is talent on the ice, not an indication of your leadership skills. If experience isn't what makes a good leader then what does, huh? I've yet to see someone explain that.
Let's see, he's 27 days younger than Lecavalier. Odd how they don't give him the C at the beginning of next season, they do it now. Why? Because otherwise they'll run out of time and he'll only be the *second* youngest captain in NHL history. The fact that Crosby keeps admitting he's not the most qualified and turning down the C yet the Pens keep offering it to him kinda says something. And BTW, Sid's only whiny on the ice (sometimes, mostly last year anyway), I think it was quite decent of him not to brag about getting the C and be humble about it. Please don't get me wrong--I don't hate Crosby. My screen name is not I hate Crosby, my favorite quote is not I hate Crosby, and my signature is not I hate Crosby. All my ranting here is directed at the guys who made the decision, not at Crosby. |
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Canucks Man
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1547 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2007 : 18:14:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Mikhailova
See that's the thing, they only offer it to him? Even when he turns it down they don't offer it to anyone else and leave their team captainless? It's like they're waiting until he IS ready to accept it. I'm not saying that's the case, but it kinda looks like it. It's suspicious how they didn't just give it to someone else last year after Crosby said no, and the first person they ask this year is him...
He only said no because the team was winning and he didnt want to disrupt the chemistry, and how do you no thye didnt offer it to anyone else? They made it clear that they wanted crosby to have the captiancy and he obviously accepted it now so why should they have given it to someone els for a few months?
CANUCKS RULE!!!
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Mikhailova
PickupHockey All-Star
USA
2918 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2007 : 18:22:25
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| And why did they want Crosby to have the captaincy? Because of a certain record? It just looks suspicious. Not necessarily the case, but it looks fishy. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2007 : 18:40:06
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The time does puts a couple of questions out there:
1) Why do it now rather than the start of next season??
2) Why do it basically in the meat of the Cup Final??
Marketing ploy?? Intentionally setting up the record book?? One could see it that way.
I Love your Kids, IHC is the man, and The Oilers Rule. Does that make me insane?? |
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Canucks Man
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1547 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2007 : 23:18:39
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Or maybe they felt it was a good time seeing as he just got presented with the art ross trophy
CANUCKS RULE!!!
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PainTrain
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1393 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2007 : 15:19:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Canucks Man
Or maybe they felt it was a good time seeing as he just got presented with the art ross trophy
CANUCKS RULE!!!
Stats don't matter who gets the ''C'' Do you see Jason Smith or Tim Taylor leading the team in points? I think not. |
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 06/05/2007 : 15:37:32
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I don't know if this has been mentioned yet (have only read about half of this LONG thread!), but one factor that MAY have gone into the thinking of the Pens brass here is that they want Sid the Kid to get experience now as a captain before the Pens move into their Stanley Cup contender stage. In other words, management may have a two or three year plan for the team's rise, and perhaps thought that, from a long-term perspective, it would be better to get Sid established as the Captain now so there wouldn't be disruptions to chemistry at the key and sometimes somewhat fragile growing point that a team experiences when trying to move up from the "good team" category into the "elite contender" category, which maybe they forecast for about two years from now.
From that point of view, they may have concluded that even if the move has some short-term problems (which it may, who knows), in the long-term it may pay dividends.
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Edited by - andyhack on 06/05/2007 15:38:41 |
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Sid the KID, the Kid captain? 
