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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro



714 Posts

Posted - 07/19/2013 :  10:00:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That's awesome news. Now who do you want to represent your country? 13 forwards, 7 defense, 3 goalies!

Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro



714 Posts

Posted - 07/19/2013 :  10:32:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hard to say now but I would say something like this

Crosby, Stamkos, St-Louis, Giroux, Getzlaf, Perry, E.Staal, Tavares, Toews, R.Nash, Bergeron, Eberle, Iginla (Not sure about the last 4) The other nine are a must!

Seabrook, Keith, Weber, Doughty, Pietrangelo, Letang

Luongo, Price, Ward

There is so many names unreal.

Edited by - Leafs81 on 07/19/2013 11:04:20
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The_Gipper
Rookie



Canada
207 Posts

Posted - 07/19/2013 :  10:38:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Canada:
Captain Crosby. other locks just off the top of my head: Tavares, Stamkos, Toews, & Weber. players like Getzlaf, Perry, Giroux, & Keith, obviously are high on the list as well. and i'd give serious looks at Hall, Eberle, Subban, Letang, the Staal's, just to name a few.

interesting part will be goaltending... who makes the cut? who is the no. 1 going into the tournament? Price, Fleury, Luongo, & Ward are the clear choices right now. do they give Brodeur another shot?
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The_Gipper
Rookie



Canada
207 Posts

Posted - 07/19/2013 :  10:40:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Leafs81


Seabrook, Keith, Weber, Suter, Doughty, Pietrangelo, Letang

Luongo, Price, Ward

There is so many names unreal.



isn't Suter American?
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dwalsh77
Top Prospect



3 Posts

Posted - 07/19/2013 :  10:55:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Cory Crawford?
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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro



714 Posts

Posted - 07/19/2013 :  11:01:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The_Gipper

quote:
Originally posted by Leafs81


Seabrook, Keith, Weber, Suter, Doughty, Pietrangelo, Letang

Luongo, Price, Ward

There is so many names unreal.



isn't Suter American?



You are right. I would have to check at somebody else for his spot. Don't really want Subban.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8173 Posts

Posted - 07/19/2013 :  11:02:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This is always a fun game. Too often people see players on a team like this as a video game type of 'pick the best players' and too often people do not think of having a balanced team. Not to sound like a jerko but there is no way team Canada will have 8 natural centres on their squad of 13 forwards. Here would by my team based by position as listed on NHL.com/

Centres - Crosby, Stamkos, Toews, Getzlaf
Left Wing - Nash, Neal, Hall, Lucic
Right Wing - St. Louis, Giroux, Perry, Stewart
Defense - Weber, Seabrook, Keith, Subban, Petriangelo, Doughty
Goalies - Price, doesn't matter, doesn't matter


Now, before you jump all over my picks there are likely some guys that will be asked to come and play out of position. The likes of Tavares, Bergeron, etc. I would say that Stewart, Hall, and Neal are likely not there and Lucic is a maybe. Subban could turn into more of a stay at home guy. I also wouldn't be suprised to see Brodeur as one of the goalies, for old time sake.

There are also a bunch of guys like Thornton and Marleau that could be there as well.

Point is, Canada could ice a "B" squad that would likely compete for a medal. For that reason, picking the right team is key as anything less than a goal is considered a failure.





Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

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Leafs81
PickupHockey Pro



714 Posts

Posted - 07/19/2013 :  11:09:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I agree Beans but I can't see Tavares and E. Staal not making it. Some centers will have to play on the wing. I could see Stamkos and Giroux playing on the wing. Toews and Bergeron could play together to shut down the opposition best, killing penalties and taking faceoff in your own end. If you're Toews and you got Bergeron on your wing, you can cheat a little bit, so if you get kicked out Bergeron is coming in.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5787 Posts

Posted - 07/19/2013 :  15:51:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Beans...."Subban could turn into more of a stay at home guy"? Who the hell is gonna tell him that! Lol.

I can't see Bergeron not making it after how well he did last time and how he's done in the NHL since. Pretty solid guy who plays a role few others do. There will always be guys left off who we will say "WTF?", but that is the depth of Canada, plain and simple. Def a few C's will be playing on the wing.

It's far too early to pick this team now as we don't know who will be playing well come next year but a guy like St Louis, who missed last time, is 4 years older now! Will he get the call now at his age? Big ice helps him as does chemistry with Stamkos but will he begin to finally slow down? I think he makes it on a line with Stamkos myself, but it's iffy.

I don't see a guy like Lucic making it on the big ice as the physicality will be slightly less than on an NHL size ice. Iggy i think is past his best before date and misses as well and Neal and Stewart would have to have hot first halves to make it.

Any way you look at it, it will be an interesting "camp" of invitees with guys like Duchene, Couture, Eberle, etc all vying for spots!
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4575 Posts

Posted - 07/19/2013 :  22:20:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Awesome news.

Like Beans, it just won't be the best statistical 15 forwards folks . . . nor defencemen. Roles have to be filled, positionally and in terms of offence and defence. Familiarity plays a huge role in a short tourney with no chance to get chemistry quickly.

I'll start with the pairings that are sure to make it, in my mind - because of their scoring/playmaking prowess, and the different dynamics they bring:

Neal - Crosby -
St.Louis - Stamkos -
Perry - Getzlaf

Boom. To rob a saying - tried, tested and true. The best centre all-around not on there is Toews, just over Staal, so we put them both on with Eric the extra guy probably.

There is a real darkhorse pairing of Mike Richards and Jeff Carter however, so look for that as a potential 4th line pair to kill penalties and rough up the opposition while tearing them a new hole. But then how do you leave off Bergeron? Crap.

Then you absolutely need to put on Hall and Giroux on wing (he's played it before). Nash will be put in for sure.

Goalie . . . Price, Ward, and whoever has a better season: Luongo, or about 6 others. hmm.

Defence is easier for me: Keith and Seabrook, Weber, Subban, Doughty, Letang.

Neal - Crosby - Nash
St. Louis - Stamkos - Toews (this was the toughest . . . I know)
Perry - Getzlaf - Giroux
Carter - Bergeron - M.Richards
Tavares

Keith - Seabrook
Weber - Doughty
Subban - Letang
Phaneuf

Price . . . Ward, Luongo



"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5787 Posts

Posted - 07/19/2013 :  22:40:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think if J. Tavares has a start to the season like he played all of this past one, he's almost guaranteed to be on this squad.

One guy that no one has mentioned on D who I could see making this team, and it may leave some shaking their head, is Jay Boumeester. With the big ice surface, I think he's got a chance, only i'm not sure which of the guys mentioned so far would be the one to miss out? Maybe Seabrook? But with he and Keith playing a lot together, plus the fact he's got the experience from Vancouver 2010, it'd be hard to see him miss. I could however see him over Phaneuf as the 7th guy?
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3581 Posts

Posted - 07/19/2013 :  23:03:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Goalie . . . Price, Ward, and whoever has a better season: Luongo, or about 6 others. hmm.



Sadly, goaltending is our achilles heel - we are not very deep at goaltending. I think 3 of Price, Luongo, Crawford and Smith are a shoe-in. After that, the talent pool drops off pretty fast. Ward, Fleury if he can get his act together when it counts. Then you get into the Dubnyk/Reimer/Emery/Bernier class.

A couple of badly timed injuries during the season to goaltenders could be cause for concern...

Not a lot of people have slotted in defensive forwards - I think Bergeron is a shoe-in, and would like to see Richards and Toews as well - reliable defensive face-off men.

Defense - hard to argue with the general consensus of Keith, Seabrook, Doughty, Weber, Letang. Subban - we'll see. The talent is there, but I never hear anything good about that guy otherwise... perhaps Pietreangelo, Girardi, Boyle.

The list of quality is way to long...

Edited by - nuxfan on 07/19/2013 23:03:52
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8173 Posts

Posted - 07/20/2013 :  07:30:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Alex, I wasn't trying to say that Subban will turn into a stay at home guy. My intention was to say he might be left off in favour of a stay at home guy. I know that's not how it reads but that what I intended.

Slozo, I like the team and the logic but I think too many natural centres. Your team has two centres on 3 of the 4 lines as well as the 4th line are all centres and the spare forward is also a centre. Just a little heavy.

I do think hockey Canada needs to ensure the ice surface is taken into account, speed trumps size on international ice. For that reason guys like Hall, Bouwmeester, and dare I say Tyler Seguin might get a little closer look.

Does anyone know when the team has to be announced?? It's usually around Christmas time.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1037 Posts

Posted - 07/22/2013 :  09:50:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Goaltending will surely be an issue.....you can pick out Canadas top 5 or 6 goalies right now and flip a quarter on them. Its no longer clearly defined like the days of Roy and Brodeur.

Fleury shouldn`t even be a consideration. Price is oh -so inconsistent at times ( times he looks great, times he looks lost ). Luongo is still steady but top dog ?? ( hard to say )...Ward for the job ? ( can`t really say ).......guess who-ever is hot this first half season will have 1st dibs............one things for sure, Canada will most likely be ouplayed in goal, each and every game......Miller ( usa )....Rask ( fin )....lundq ( swe )......well, maybe not russia.....

Its time for Canada to look at some youth and speed on this big ice surface.....its time for older guys like st. louis ( i know he is still good but ) and iglina to give way for the likes of taylor hall and co.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5787 Posts

Posted - 07/22/2013 :  11:36:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

Alex, I wasn't trying to say that Subban will turn into a stay at home guy. My intention was to say he might be left off in favour of a stay at home guy. I know that's not how it reads but that what I intended.



Ah, make sense now! Lol, i was wondering who you figured was gonna be the coach to turn him into a stay at home guy!

Unless T. Hall has an absolutely horrid start to the year, or god forbid, another injury, i think he's as much of a shoo-in as anyone. Sniper? Check! Speed? Check! Leader? Check! This kid is THAT good. He HAS to be there. Will be very interesting to see if Seguin has a good first half with Dallas, and Benn in particular. Can you imagine a line of Seguin between Benn and Hall? Nice youthful speedy line with a guy like Benn who can also play physical???
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The_Gipper
Rookie



Canada
207 Posts

Posted - 07/22/2013 :  11:38:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
actually it's probably going to be Quick for the USA....not Miller. but i agree, for the first time since the NHL players started going goaltending is a big question mark for Canada.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8173 Posts

Posted - 07/22/2013 :  11:38:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here is the last of players invited to camp. Any surprises on the list? What about the names missing? Looking at ths roster tells me the picks will be tough. There are likely about 10 names that are sure things with the other 13-14 spots being based on chemistry and what players are hot.

http://www.tsn.ca/canadian_hockey/feature/?id=1131

I don't think Team Canada will be outplayed in net. Certainly not by Miller! But there will be more choice than in the past. I like Price, Luongo, and Smith. Not a bad choice in the group. To the comment that Price is streaky; he sure is. But wouldn't you take the risk that he is on a hot streak knowing that his back up will be an elite goalie? Take nothing away from other goalies but Price is on his game there few goalies that will outplay him.



Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

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The_Gipper
Rookie



Canada
207 Posts

Posted - 07/22/2013 :  11:42:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:

Unless T. Hall has an absolutely horrid start to the year, or god forbid, another injury, i think he's as much of a shoo-in as anyone. Sniper? Check! Speed? Check! Leader? Check! This kid is THAT good. He HAS to be there. Will be very interesting to see if Seguin has a good first half with Dallas, and Benn in particular. Can you imagine a line of Seguin between Benn and Hall? Nice youthful speedy line with a guy like Benn who can also play physical???



what about Eberle and Hall on a line centered by Tavares? didn't they play on Canada's Jr. team together? that's another line that could potentially tear it up! the possible forward line combinations are endless with this group!! i love it!!
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nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star



3581 Posts

Posted - 07/22/2013 :  12:12:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Take nothing away from other goalies but Price is on his game there few goalies that will outplay him.



I think the same could be said for any of those goaltenders when they're "on their game" - goalies are streaky by nature. Taking nothing away from Price, I think Crawford should be ahead of him - on recent accomplishments alone. Luongo/Smith/Crawford would be a great trio.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8173 Posts

Posted - 07/22/2013 :  13:09:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here is team USA's invite list. Looking at the keepers is would put Quick, Anderson and a fight for three between Miller, Howard, and Schneider.

There is some serious speed and scoring in their forward group and a lot of young players being invited on the back end.

Canada, US, and Russia will be head and shoulders above the rest.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5787 Posts

Posted - 07/22/2013 :  13:11:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

Here is the last of players invited to camp. Any surprises on the list? What about the names missing?


Well, so much for my Benn/Seguin/Hall line! I'm not shocked Seguin isn't on the list considering the ridiculous depth at C we've already discussed, but i'm surprised Jamie Benn didn't get an invite. From what i understand, he played out of position as a C last year and with Seguin now in Dallas, they look to move him back to the wing. I think this guy is gonna be real good real soon!

Other surprises for me.....
On the list:
Holtby (Really? Are we THAT thin in net?)
Alzner/Hamonic/Methot (don't see a lot of them)
There's other like J. Staal and A. Ladd who are both quality players, but i can't see them having a great chance at making this team as there's just too much depth and talent in their same roles but as far as it being a "selection camp", i get it. They're not out of place or in over their heads by any means!
Lucic is a bit of a surprise for me as well. He had a bit of an off year this past short season and the big ice doesn't suit his game as much, but again, you could put him out there on a line with any two other guys and he wouldn't be out of place!

Not on the list:
Marty Brodeur - not sure why he wouldn't have at least been invited to the camp??? Until it's absolutely evident he's no longer a great goalie, i think he should have at least rec'd an invite!
Beauchemin - read a hockey writer's picks recently (originally he'd made them back in Feb and updated them the other day) and he made a great case for Beauchemin. I figured he'd at least make the orientation camp.
Iggy - Guess the speed and the large ice is to be considered, but with past successes, another guy i figured would be at the camp!

Laslty, i'm shocked Alain Vigneault was beat out yet again by Crawford for the coaching spot!
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@valanche
Rookie



Canada
240 Posts

Posted - 07/22/2013 :  14:29:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Luongo
Crawford
Price


Keith Seabrook
Doughty Weber
Letang Peitrangelo
(Hamhuis / Subban)


Couture Crosby Stamkos
Richards Toews Bergeron
E. Staal Getzlaf Perry
Hall Tavares Giroux
(Duchene / Eberle)

66 is > than 99
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1872 Posts

Posted - 07/22/2013 :  15:13:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

Here is the last of players invited to camp. Any surprises on the list? What about the names missing?


Well, so much for my Benn/Seguin/Hall line! I'm not shocked Seguin isn't on the list considering the ridiculous depth at C we've already discussed, but i'm surprised Jamie Benn didn't get an invite. From what i understand, he played out of position as a C last year and with Seguin now in Dallas, they look to move him back to the wing. I think this guy is gonna be real good real soon!

Other surprises for me.....
On the list:
Holtby (Really? Are we THAT thin in net?)
Alzner/Hamonic/Methot (don't see a lot of them)
There's other like J. Staal and A. Ladd who are both quality players, but i can't see them having a great chance at making this team as there's just too much depth and talent in their same roles but as far as it being a "selection camp", i get it. They're not out of place or in over their heads by any means!
Lucic is a bit of a surprise for me as well. He had a bit of an off year this past short season and the big ice doesn't suit his game as much, but again, you could put him out there on a line with any two other guys and he wouldn't be out of place!

Not on the list:
Marty Brodeur - not sure why he wouldn't have at least been invited to the camp??? Until it's absolutely evident he's no longer a great goalie, i think he should have at least rec'd an invite!
Beauchemin - read a hockey writer's picks recently (originally he'd made them back in Feb and updated them the other day) and he made a great case for Beauchemin. I figured he'd at least make the orientation camp.
Iggy - Guess the speed and the large ice is to be considered, but with past successes, another guy i figured would be at the camp!

Laslty, i'm shocked Alain Vigneault was beat out yet again by Crawford for the coaching spot!


Methot last year was the guy who came in to Ottawa to play in a defensive pairing with Karlsson in Ottawa. Methot was brilliant all last year used in a shutdown role, providing a veteran presense while mentoring the young players who had to step in during injuries to the other veterans. He probably was Ottawa's steadiest defender and if Karlsson wasn't on the team would likely receive more press.

I'm not surprised about Brodeur not being invited, I am more surprised his name is still being considered in Canada's Elite goalies (he has earned this respect, just surprised he still gets it)

As far as Bean and Sequin not being on the invite list, come the start of the season if they find the chemistry, I expect early, will both likely be on the short list for injured reserve.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1872 Posts

Posted - 07/22/2013 :  15:29:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=678655&navid=nhl:topheads

Here's a link to USA invites. Based on camp invites I'd say USA has the strongest offering I have seen in years. Deep on Defense, Forward and Goaltending. Might be a lock for a medal. I'd say they are deeper in defense and goaltending than Canada. I have highlighted my favorites with 15 forwards (2 Injury Reserves) 8 defenseman (1 Injury Reserve) and the 3 goalies I would choose.

Justin Abdelkader (Detroit) *David Backes (St. Louis) Beau Bennett (Pittsburgh) Nick Bjugstad (Florida) *Dustin Brown (Los Angeles) *Ryan Callahan (N.Y. Rangers) Alex Galchenyuk (Montreal) *Patrick Kane (Chicago) *Ryan Kesler (Vancouver) *Phil Kessel (Toronto) Trevor Lewis (Los Angeles) Kyle Okposo (N.Y. Islanders) T.J. Oshie (St. Louis) Max Pacioretty (Montreal) Kyle Palmieri (Anaheim) *Zach Parise (Minnesota) *Joe Pavelski (San Jose) *Bobby Ryan (Ottawa) Brandon Saad (Chicago) Craig Smith (Nashville) *Paul Stastny (Colorado) Derek Stepan (N.Y. Rangers) James van Riemsdyk (Toronto) Blake Wheeler (Winnipeg)

DEFENSEMEN
Zach Bogosian (Winnipeg) Dustin Byfuglien (Winnipeg) John Carlson (Washington) Danny DeKeyser (Detroit) Justin Faulk (Carolina) Cam Fowler (Anaheim) Jake Gardiner (Toronto) *Erik Johnson (Colorado) *Jack Johnson (Columbus) Seth Jones (Nashville) Nick Leddy (Chicago) Paul Martin (Pittsburgh) Ryan McDonagh (N.Y. Rangers) *Brooks Orpik (Pittsburgh) Kevin Shattenkirk (St. Louis) *Ryan Suter (Minnesota) Jacob Trouba (Winnipeg) Keith Yandle (Phoenix)

GOALIES
Craig Anderson (Ottawa) John Gibson (Anaheim) Jimmy Howard (Detroit) *Ryan Miller (Buffalo) *Jonathan Quick (Los Angeles) Cory Schneider (New Jersey)


"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "

Edited by - JOSHUACANADA on 07/22/2013 15:32:19
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5787 Posts

Posted - 07/22/2013 :  16:28:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Better in net, but not on D than Canada IMO. The forwards, well, let's just say there's more talent on the Canadian roster, but the US will compete if for no other reason than what's always debated with team Canada. We have already touched on it here, that being, do we take 12-14 all star calibre fwd's regardless of position (at least to some degree) or do we build a team, and bring some role players and assume guys who are 1st liners in the NHL may not be adept to playing lesser roles that aren't their "norm"? The US will have a team built with guys who fit roles, and it's mostly due to them having less depth skill-wise as Canada. This is not to insult in any way, the US, it's just a fact. They can have guys like Callahan, Backes, Oshie, etc play a more 3rd/4th line physical/checking role that perhaps suits their game more. Sure, these guys may play 1st and 2nd line mins on their NHL teams, but lets face it, it's only due to the teams they're on and the style they play. IMO, that is why the US will be very dangerous.

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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8173 Posts

Posted - 07/22/2013 :  16:31:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
USA deep on defence?

Ask yourself this, other than Ryan Suter is there another US defenceman that would crack the top 6 for team Canada?

I don't think so. I see them as you and unproven on the international level. Canada will neve the best defence in the tourney which makes their needs in goal less than other teams. The question for Canada is will they have the right balance of forwards to score and defend and, most importantly, can they stay physical without being overly penalized.

That last point will be the difference between a gold and a non-medal finish.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1872 Posts

Posted - 07/22/2013 :  18:44:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

USA deep on defence?

Ask yourself this, other than Ryan Suter is there another US defenceman that would crack the top 6 for team Canada?

Your kidding right? Byfuglien, Jack Johnson, Ryan Suter and Kevin Shattenkirk are all on the level. The others Zach Bogosian, Keith Yandle and Erik Johnson are lessor known but are great talented defenseman. I put Orpik in there because of his experience and size, but he is not a premier dman. He would likely be a IR sub for me. I could have added Paul Martin (Pittsburgh) Ryan McDonagh (N.Y. Rangers) as these 2 are also excellent defenseman.

I don't think so. I see them as you and unproven on the international level. Canada will neve the best defence in the tourney which makes their needs in goal less than other teams. The question for Canada is will they have the right balance of forwards to score and defend and, most importantly, can they stay physical without being overly penalized.

That last point will be the difference between a gold and a non-medal finish.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!





"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "

Edited by - JOSHUACANADA on 07/22/2013 18:51:26
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8173 Posts

Posted - 07/22/2013 :  19:49:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Oh c'mon Joshua, you are arguing for the sake of arguing again. Think about it. How many Norris winners or Norris nominees are with team Canada? How many Cup rings? How many 1st and 2nd team all stars. I'll give you that Byfuglien and Yandle are both solid office players but please. It's not even close.

Erik Johnson? Is that a joke?

Seriously, other than Suter there is not a single US defender that would make team Canada over Keith, Seabrook, Doughty, Weber. Throw in Subban as the reigning Norris winner and that's the 5 that would be head and shoulders ahead of all the other US talent. Notice I didn't even have to to include the other Norris nominee in Kris Letang or the up and coming guys like Pietroangelo and Marc Staal or the elder statesmen like Boyle or Bouwmeester.

You said Eric Johnson. That's funny.

It's not even close

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5787 Posts

Posted - 07/22/2013 :  21:15:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Gotta agree with Beans here. Suter for sure would make Team Canada, but the rest, not a chance. Jack Johnson might be the closest but since you mentioned Erik Johnson, i'll give you my thoughts on him. O.V.E.R.R.A.T.E.D.!!! This guy is constantly talked about as being an elite dman, and it's all got to do with his draft position. Being selected #1 overall in '06 seems to have this guy on a pedestal of sorts. Don't get me wrong, he's not an Alexandre Daigle like bust, but he's never lived up to the expectations. Sure, he's a "good" dman, but on many teams, he'd be a 3 or 4 dman! He's just not THAT good!!!

Shattenkirk, nice offense skills and pretty solid dman all around, but again, not on the level of the Canadians! Byfuglien? Sure, he's good, but again, he wouldn't make it on Canada. Bogosian? Yandle? Etc, Nope. Beans is right, these guys don't make Team Canada. To be honest with you, I think McDonaugh would have a better chance than some of them and you have him as a "maybe".

Again, USA's D isn't terrible, but Canada's is JUST THAT GOOD! It's def "our" strong point!
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8173 Posts

Posted - 07/23/2013 :  06:34:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The last line of Alex's post is my point. I'm not saying the US team is poor but team Canada will have the class of the tournament on defence.

Here are the invitee list for Russia, Finland, and Sweden.

http://bit.ly/1b8Lz4K
http://bit.ly/13URZKX
http://bit.ly/160l4JV

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

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@valanche
Rookie



Canada
240 Posts

Posted - 07/23/2013 :  07:38:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
USA - defense looks slow, forwards look small
Russia - defense/goaltending is suspect
Sweden - forward group relatively weak
Finland - nowhere near the same level of skill, best goaltending hands down
Canada - goaltending question marks, balanced forward lines needed

66 is > than 99
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1872 Posts

Posted - 07/23/2013 :  09:35:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Jack Johnson is an elite defenseman AT 6-1 231 pounds with a best season of 42 points in 82 games and if he was Canadian, not playing for Columbus, I would have more people in my corner. He is one of those defenseman most teams would build around.

Shattenkirk 5-11, 207, best season of 43 points in 82 games in St Louis in 2011 or Yandle at 6-1, 190, best season of 59 points in 2011 in Pheonix! Either if not on the Blues/Pheonix and if Canadian, same story as Jack Johnson, considered cornerstone defensemen.

Suter is a well known commodity, so no need to defend him, but if I have to defend what Byfuglien, the Big Buff brings, then I guess I can't win in this conversation. He might not be the best defensive defenseman more like above average, but between his big body 6-5, 265, how physical he plays, offensive ability, best season of 53 points in 66 games in Winnipeg!!! and he is very versatile.

Erik Johnson might be a stretch based on his play the last 2 years in Colorado, but he is 6-4 and 232 pounds, his best years were in St Louis where he had 39 points in 79 games and considered great defensive wise, but since he joined Colorado hasn't found the success he had prior. He has Olympic experience from the 2010 squad, so I included him.

If not him then as Alex has said, McDonaugh from New York who is an excellent defender had 19 points last year in 42 games, is consider by the Rangers to be a cornerstone defenseman and if you don't agree, look up his signing by New York Rangers on NHL.com.

I never go by Norris trophies when I rate a player, as most of the time that trophy goes to a defender with great stats and good defensive play, not excellent defensive play and good stats. All of the USA players have good stats, but most of those I choose have excellent defensive play, with most being big bodied veteran players and a few with cup wins. Do I need to remind everyone that USA won silver last round of Olympics in the extra frame and that most of those players are returning to this years squad, with better play/stats than last time.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4575 Posts

Posted - 07/23/2013 :  09:41:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by @valanche

USA - defense looks slow, forwards look small
Russia - defense/goaltending is suspect
Sweden - forward group relatively weak
Finland - nowhere near the same level of skill, best goaltending hands down
Canada - goaltending question marks, balanced forward lines needed

66 is > than 99



Agreed for the most part on this take.

Sweden's heyday has passed them by . . . and it was a marvelous time for them, back when they had Forsberg, Sundin and Lidstrom on the team. They have Lundqvist still, but it's not enough I reckon.

Finland is still hanging in the conversation of medals though I reckon . . . their top forwards to a man ALL play a solid, defensively responsible game, and their goaltending is excellent (alothough not at all head and shoulders above everyone else's).

Russia's forward group equals Canada's in terms of overall skill, but the goaltending remains a question, and the defence looks weak.

The Americans have a very solid all-around team. Agree with the fact that they will have solid role players, and that may be just as good or better than a more skilled player playing those third and fourth lines. They are a tiny step below Canada in terms of rating at almost each position other than goal; but they are very close.

I think Canada's goaltending is quite strong, I have zero issues with our net. I just worry about choosing the right players for those third and fourth lines, and opting for more defensively responsible players.

I think it's a tournament between Canada, the US and Russia, with Finland having an outside chance. For anyone else to get in the medals, I'd consider it an upset/surprise.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1872 Posts

Posted - 07/23/2013 :  09:51:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

Oh c'mon Joshua, you are arguing for the sake of arguing again. Think about it. How many Norris winners or Norris nominees are with team Canada? How many Cup rings? 2

How many 1st and 2nd team all stars. I'll give you that Byfuglien and Yandle are both solid office players but please. It's not even close.

Need a good mix of offense and defense

Erik Johnson? Is that a joke?

I'll give you that 1, but he was that guy a few years ago, when he played in the last Olympics.

Seriously, other than Suter there is not a single US defender that would make team Canada over Keith, Seabrook, Doughty, Weber. Throw in Subban as the reigning Norris winner and that's the 5 that would be head and shoulders ahead of all the other US talent. Notice I didn't even have to to include the other Norris nominee in Kris Letang or the up and coming guys like Pietroangelo and Marc Staal or the elder statesmen like Boyle or Bouwmeester.

I get that Canada has lots of good defenseman, just think USA does too. Did you really include Seabrook in the Elite Defenseman category and bash my pick of Erik Johnson?

You said Eric Johnson. That's funny.

It's not even close

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!





"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "

Edited by - JOSHUACANADA on 07/23/2013 09:52:07
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1872 Posts

Posted - 07/23/2013 :  10:12:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just a couple of things I might disagree with

quote:
Originally posted by @valanche


USA - defense looks slow Yandle, Suter, Shattenkirk not what I would call slow, the rest I might agree with, but the rest are hard checking and big bodied, forwards look small

Russia - defense/goaltending is suspect Bobrovsky=Vesina

Sweden - forward group relatively weak Eriksson, Landeskog Berglund, Backstrom, Franzen, Steen, Hagelin, Zetterberg and Hornqvist, plus the Sedin's all seem pretty strong to me.

Finland - nowhere near the same level of skill, best goaltending hands down

Canada - goaltending question marks, balanced forward lines needed

66 is > than 99



"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1872 Posts

Posted - 07/23/2013 :  11:12:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have been going backwards and forwards thru the top 5 rosters and can't help thinking this is still a 5 horse race.

Finland has 18 players returning from there surprise bronse finnish, if you get the pun. Selanne always plays his best when representing Finland, so if he still has something in the tank I am not counting them out based on there strength in net. I have no clue who the #1 will be based on how many they have to choose from

Sweden still has a lot of weapons left on forward and defense with probably the best goalie in the Tournament still in Lundqvist. They can still compete for a medal.

Russia has great offensive forwards that can match what Canada brings and could be in the mix, if Bobrovsky can continue on the pace that won him the Vezina. Biggest knock is lack of defenseman and team defense as always.

USA looks solid on paper and 15 players returning from a silver medal win. Goaltending solid, I think the defensman are a solid mix of size, hitting, offense and defense. The forwards are offensively strong, but with a few exceptions, smaller than Canada's potential forward core. Don't know if size or speed is more important on the larger Ice surface and tighter rules on checking in Olympic play.

Canada looks solid throughout, but if you get past the starstruckness when looking at the roster, isn't the deepest in goal. If this team doesn't gel defensewise, teams like Finland and Sweden, who play great on the international stage, can win a game or 2, with USA, Russia able to match the big guns Canada has. I am not saying Canada doesn't on paper appear the strongest, just going on gut here that the other teams seem solid too.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8173 Posts

Posted - 07/23/2013 :  12:03:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Joshua, don't confuse the opinions of others. No one is saying the US team has a bad defence. It's just not as good as Canada's. I get that Jack Johnson is a good player but I don't think he is better any any of Canada's top 6. I get his numbers and that he plays in Columbus. That doesn't change that I take 6-7 Canadian defenders over him. I would put the US team a pretty comfortable #2 in the field but they are a full step behind Canada.

That said, I think the US forwards are faster and more dynamic than the Canadian team. I wouldn't be surprised to see another Olympic US vs Canada gold medal game.


Switching gears, take a look at this link to the group invited to camp for the 2010 games.

http://olympic.ca/news/hockey-canada-invites-46-players-to-national-orientation-camp


Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5787 Posts

Posted - 07/23/2013 :  13:37:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

Switching gears, take a look at this link to the group invited to camp for the 2010 games.

http://olympic.ca/news/hockey-canada-invites-46-players-to-national-orientation-camp






Wow! ANDY MCDONALD??? That's the one that stands out most to me! The other one might be Brent Burns, only because he's a forward now.

Joshua, back to the US/Can defense comparison, imo, J. Johnson might make team Canada, but it's still iffy. The guy he'd prob have to supplant is Seabrook who's coming off a pretty nice cup run and because of Keith, often gets overlooked as a top dman in Chicago. Bottom line is, aside from Suter (and maybe, and i mean MAYBE, JJ) none of these guys would make Canada's roster. Byfuglien, Shattenkirk, Yandle, EJ, Bogosian, etc? Heck, even Pietrangelo makes it before them and he's not even a consensus pick just yet!
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8173 Posts

Posted - 07/23/2013 :  20:26:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Alex116

quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

Switching gears, take a look at this link to the group invited to camp for the 2010 games.

http://olympic.ca/news/hockey-canada-invites-46-players-to-national-orientation-camp






Wow! ANDY MCDONALD??? That's the one that stands out most to me! The other one might be Brent Burns, only because he's a forward now.

Joshua, back to the US/Can defense comparison, imo, J. Johnson might make team Canada, but it's still iffy. The guy he'd prob have to supplant is Seabrook who's coming off a pretty nice cup run and because of Keith, often gets overlooked as a top dman in Chicago. Bottom line is, aside from Suter (and maybe, and i mean MAYBE, JJ) none of these guys would make Canada's roster. Byfuglien, Shattenkirk, Yandle, EJ, Bogosian, etc? Heck, even Pietrangelo makes it before them and he's not even a consensus pick just yet!



What about Steve Mason in net!

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5787 Posts

Posted - 07/23/2013 :  21:46:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
What about Steve Mason in net!





Yeah, he stands out but for a different reason. It's got everything to do with where he is (career wise) now. In the two years prior to being selected for the 2010 camp, he was coming off a WJC gold AND tournament MVP, followed thereafter by a Calder trophy in his first NHL season. I have no doubt that team Canada had very little thought that he'd actually make that team, but wanted him there assuming he and Price would be fighting for the starters role today!

Have a look at Andy McDonald's stats for the years around the 2010 team. Not that impressive at all! His big years seem to have ended in 2007 and they were followed by injury filled years at less than a PPG, though I will say, he did have 44 points in 46 games in '08/'09 (assuming he was injured for half the year?).

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@valanche
Rookie



Canada
240 Posts

Posted - 07/23/2013 :  23:59:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Something I'm just noticing now why no Spezza both this year and 2010

66 is > than 99
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