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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1040 Posts

Posted - 08/01/2013 :  19:05:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Slozo, back in 2009, just before the 2010 Olympics, i argued with my friends that Phaneuf SHOULD HAVE been a part of team Canada......this belief of mine was just from watching him play with Calgary ( you see i didn`t see him play much ) and some international hockey with Canada.

Its so diffrent when you see a player play every game...all season long. I usually catch about 75 leaf games each season. After watching all these games you form diffrent opinions regarding players......especially compared to non leaf fans who usually just see high-lights of the leafs has we do their teams.

I can honestly say as a leaf fan that Phaneuf should not be on team Canada ahead of the other great D-man that Canada has.

I think Phaneuf would make a great forward, i honestly do. He would be a great guy to plank himself in front of the opposing net and cause havoc.
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slozo
Moderator



Canada
4594 Posts

Posted - 08/02/2013 :  06:58:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Duke

Slozo, back in 2009, just before the 2010 Olympics, i argued with my friends that Phaneuf SHOULD HAVE been a part of team Canada......this belief of mine was just from watching him play with Calgary ( you see i didn`t see him play much ) and some international hockey with Canada.

Its so diffrent when you see a player play every game...all season long. I usually catch about 75 leaf games each season. After watching all these games you form diffrent opinions regarding players......especially compared to non leaf fans who usually just see high-lights of the leafs has we do their teams.

I can honestly say as a leaf fan that Phaneuf should not be on team Canada ahead of the other great D-man that Canada has.

I think Phaneuf would make a great forward, i honestly do. He would be a great guy to plank himself in front of the opposing net and cause havoc.




Hey - fair enough, that's why it's your opinion, and that's fair.

I think sometimes it goes both ways for seeing a guy on your team more often . . . especially in a nit-picking fanbase with huge media glare like Toronto has.

I think Phaneuf never helped himself in the Toronto media, because he's basically not the brightest light in the city, and he has zero to say in interviews . . . and as our captain, it somehow comes off a bit 'funny' that this is supposed to be our leader. And he has often been paired with a far lesser player (Phaneuf has, I mean) - last year being with the green rookie Kostka is a prime example.

But like I said, it's your opinion, and that's fair enough.

Would you have Subban on your team Canada though?

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1040 Posts

Posted - 08/04/2013 :  10:40:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Slozo, if i were GM of team Canada...heres my defense.

1st pairing.......play all-round game, any situation
Right - D Right - D
Weber Doughty

2nd pairing.....Defensive shutdown pair
Left - D Right - D
Staal Seabrook

3rd pairing.....offensive role....my PP guys
Left - D Right - D
Keith Letang

7th D- man would be a very tough decision.......my order would be something like..
1. Hamuis2. Peitrangelo
3. Subban..........not that i think Subban is not a star or anything but he is stiil young and hot headed. I`m not sure ( in my opinion ) if i would be able to trust him to take one for the team and not be selfish.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8176 Posts

Posted - 08/06/2013 :  05:34:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just out of curiousity Duke, why on earth would you split up Keith and Seabrook?? Why it not make more sense to put Stall with Letang and keep the Chicago pairing together??

One thing I recall from Vancouver is that Yzerman was big on having players who played together on the Olympic team. I think that Weber and Doughty are the two best defensemen for Canada so they are there for sure. Otherwise, I would not be surprised to see the other 4 dmen being Keith/Seabrook and Peitrangelo/Bouwmeester.

Considering the short turn around to get to Russia and start playing, I don't think there will be much time to build chemistry. Having team mates on the back end will be important.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1040 Posts

Posted - 08/06/2013 :  20:27:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I get what you are saying about the chemistry thing but these are all high profile pro players, they adjust to a new partner very quickly.

I think Keith and Letang are the go to PP guys and could be the 1 goal offensive diffrence in a win for team Canada. I believe they would gel together very quickly with their offensive abilities and blazing speed.

One is a left handed shot / the other a rightie......this makes for very, very quick puck movement on the PP.....theres no need for either to have to pick up a pass on the back side of their stick......when a D-man does have to do this, it gives the opposing fore-checker that one split second to break up the play.....this would not be a concern with Keith and Letang.

One PP goal could be the difference in winning or losing this tourn.

I believe that Seabrook and Staal together would be one of the best shutdown combinations that Canada could possibly put together......Seabrook is outstanding and i think Staal is just as good or better.
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8176 Posts

Posted - 08/07/2013 :  08:13:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well, if that is the case, why not put Subban and Brian Campbell as your PP guys. Both can skate like the wind and both are head and shoulders the best PP defensemen in the NHL.

I still don't get breaking up Keith and Seabrook but everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1040 Posts

Posted - 08/10/2013 :  10:12:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Beans, you really think that Subban and Campbell are head and shoulders above the 2 pp guys i picked ?

I guess you are saying that if you were an NHL GM and you were offered either a combination of Keith / Letang vs Subban / Campbell.......you would take Subban and Campbell.....really ??.......thats interesting.

Not trying to put words in your mouth, but you did just post that Subban and Campbell are head and shoulders above Keith and Letang.

I don`t think that too many people would agree with you on this one Beans.
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5794 Posts

Posted - 08/11/2013 :  08:59:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Duke, in fact you are putting words in his mouth. He said "as pp guys". No one said anything about which two a GM would pick as all around dmen. I don't agree with Beans take on them being the 2 best PP guys but wanted to point out that that was his comment and not as all ariund guys!
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8176 Posts

Posted - 08/12/2013 :  11:29:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Statistically speaking, Subban and Campbell have more PP points than any other Canadian defensemen last season. I am pretty sure if you looked back over the past 4-5 years you will find Campbell's name in the top 5 every year.

If I was picking the team based on your logic Duke, I would agree with Doughty and Seabrook, I would have Subban and Campbell as my PP guys, and I would have Keith and Seabrook as by shutdown guys.

But that is not how I would pick a team. I'm basing my decision on how you proposed to pick the team.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

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The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1040 Posts

Posted - 08/13/2013 :  03:53:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I`m sure who-ever they pick, they will do just fine
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5794 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2013 :  09:34:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

Statistically speaking, Subban and Campbell have more PP points than any other Canadian defensemen last season. I am pretty sure if you looked back over the past 4-5 years you will find Campbell's name in the top 5 every year.






Beans....all I was saying is if I was picking with this logic, these two wouldn't be my two. Subban, sure, quite likely. Campbell? Prob not. You stated they had the most pp points in this last 48 game season but conveniently you failed to mention to the readers that guys like Green and Letang missed 13 games and were only 3 or 4 points back of Campbell! Heck, even Phaneuf was only 1 point back with less pp time, as was Schultz, just 2 back!
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8176 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2013 :  11:40:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You are right. But what you clearly missed was the point where I said if you look back in the past 4-5 years you will find Campbell's name in the top 5 every year.

I wasn't completely accurate with that but wasn't far off. In 2 of the 3 seasons he played in Chicago he was on the 2nd unit behind Keith and had only 17 pp point in those two season.

That said, in the past 6 years, Campell has been the top PP Canadian defensemen twice and in the top 10 in 4 of those 6 seasons. He has 125 PP points in that span. From what I have gathered, that is the most of any Canadian born defensemen.

Get my point??

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5794 Posts

Posted - 08/15/2013 :  13:51:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15

You are right. But what you clearly missed was the point where I said if you look back in the past 4-5 years you will find Campbell's name in the top 5 every year.

I wasn't completely accurate with that but wasn't far off. In 2 of the 3 seasons he played in Chicago he was on the 2nd unit behind Keith and had only 17 pp point in those two season.

That said, in the past 6 years, Campell has been the top PP Canadian defensemen twice and in the top 10 in 4 of those 6 seasons. He has 125 PP points in that span. From what I have gathered, that is the most of any Canadian born defensemen.

Get my point??

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!





Yup. Got it the first time too. I just simply said he wouldn't be one of my two under Duke's strange / hypothetical selection criteria. Answer me this though. If you could have just 2 designated PP dmen on Team Canada, would he be one of your two? If so, that's fine. That's your pick/opinion. All I was saying is I wouldnt pick the same two as you!

Get my point...yet???
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8176 Posts

Posted - 08/16/2013 :  07:36:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
No, I don't get your point. Sorry. I was simply defending the point as you were speaking about Campbell's performance against his peers only last season. I was simply trying to clairify my opinion of his abilities over a larger body of work.


If I was picking players purely on their PP ability, Campbell would be one of them without a doubt. Look at the teams he has played on when leading the league in PP points as a defensemen! Buffalo and Florida! Seriously, if he can do that with sub-par teams, what could he do if he was playing with the best Canada would offer. My personal opinion is that he was burried in Chicago and Quinville did not like him so he became 2nd fiddle to Keith. Not saying Campbell is a better player than Keith but as a PP player, I think Campbell is not only the best Canadian defenseman PP guy but he might be the best defenceman on the PP in the world.

If I was picking purely on PP my first pairing would be Campbell and Weber as I believe Weber to have the best and hardest shot of any Canadian defensemen. My 2nd pairing would be Keith and Seabrook. 3rd would be Doughty and Subban.

Purely PP speaking.



Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend



5794 Posts

Posted - 08/16/2013 :  10:05:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wow Beans, you seem to be quite argumentative regarding this. If you'd read and comprehend my posts you'd see this:

1. I began by clarifying to Duke what your point was while at the same time, having a different opinion on which 2 Canadian dmen would be my picks for top 2 pp guys. Just an opinion, not right, not wrong. That opinion was "my point" which you didn't get then and apparently still don't get?

2. You then decided to defend your selections with stats, which I pointed out were somewhat skewed to support your picks. At the time, I was only pointing that out however again my intention was only to get my original point across. That is why I began that post with "Beans....all I was saying is if I was picking with this logic these wouldn't be my two.". No where did I imply that your picks were wrong, not worthy, stupid, etc, I just stated my opinion. Again, my point was my two pp picks would not be the same as yours. Still you somehow missed that.
3. My 3rd post aknowledged that unlike you, I actually got your point. Funny thing is, I needed no lessons on what Brian Campbell has accomplished over the past few seasons. I know he's a good dman and especially a good pp guy. It doesn't mean I'd pick him though. When reading my last post back, I've come to the conclussion that you're simply being argumentative and not admitting to "getting my point". I've come to appreciate your hockey knowledge and know you're not a moron nor intellectually challenged so there's no way you could have missed my original point that quite simply, Campbell would not be one of my top two Canadian PP picks!!!

If you wanna go off on a tangent and discuss who my picks would be and why, that's totally fine. Just don't get it mixed into a debate where you've unecessarily gotten all defensive because I didn't agree with you on something. Heck, for all you know, Campbell might even be my 3rd pick for Canada?

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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1878 Posts

Posted - 08/16/2013 :  10:19:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I get your point Alex. I think most people do. Wish others who do not didn't take a difference of opinion as a person attack. I actually am looking at Campbell a little different depth wise after hearing the whole story, though. My thinking of adding Subban or Letang to my list due to there PP specialty, might be different after thinking more clearly with regards to Campbell, who definitely has more experience and a greater body of work.

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran



Canada
1878 Posts

Posted - 08/16/2013 :  10:22:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wait, where is Campbell's name on Canada's invite list? Why don't I see it there?

"I now realise that the Toronto Maple Leafs, Canada's finest hockey team, is better than the Ottawa Senators - and always will be. PS - LOVE that Dion Phaneuf! "
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Beans15
Moderator



Canada
8176 Posts

Posted - 08/16/2013 :  13:47:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
First off, I don't think I was being argumentative with anyone nor was I trying to debate anyone else's opinions. I was simply supporting my argument and making the point towards Duke that picking a player purely on the PP abilities is short sighted in my opinion.

That is why I said I didn't get your point. I didn't think we were disagreeing about anything which made me misunderstand what you were trying to say.

I never intended to attack anyone personally or be overly defensive. My apologies if that is the perception. The majority of this debate was about the defensive players who people think will make the team and when Duke posted Keith and Letang as his PP guys, I was questioning that opinion and countered with Subban and Campbell.

Again, sorry if I offended anyone as that was not my intention.

Ottawa, the best coached team in the NHL, with MVP like players such as Chris Neil, will win the Cup in 2013!

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