| Author |
 Topic  |
|
mandree888
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
400 Posts |
 Posted - 10/12/2014 : 04:25:17
|
I realize its only two games in but this team looks downright disinterested! i don't blame the fan who threw his jersey on the ice. (and no this is not about the oilers)
Is it
the Coach?
the GM?,
The System?,
The Players?,
what is the problem that is keeping this team in mediocrity? i am at a loss right now as a a leaf (and avalanche) fan. (dont get me started on the avs...... )
|
|
|
nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2014 : 14:40:05
|
The answer is pretty simple - they don't do the things they need to do to improve their team.
TOR was one of the few teams that, after a bad season, actually managed to get worse in the offseason, when they should have gotten better.
Losses:
- Mason Raymond (19g, 45p)
- Carl Gunnerson (3g, 17p)
- Nikoli Kulemin (9g, 20p)
- Dave Bolland (8g, 12p, and arguably their best forward last year while he played)
- Tim Gleason (great stay-at-home defenseman)
- Colton Orr and Frazer McLaren (all the toughness that TOR had)
Gains:
- Roman Polak - good tough stay-at-home defenseman
- David Booth - looking (still) for that redemption season
- Leo Komarov - back from KHL
- Stephan Robidas - 37 year old small-ish offensive dman
- Mike Santorelli - solid top-9 forward, good speed, could be a shining light for them
I don't know. To me the losses outweigh the gains - but even in the best light possible its only a wash.
Couple with the fact that Bernier has so far looked pretty ordinary and everyone else looks.... the same, and you have the early makings of a frustrating year in Leaf-land. Coach - can only coach what he has. GM - guys have to be available to acquire.
As for why the cycle continues, I have my own theories as to why TOR is unable to attract high end free agents.
Speaking of the oilers - they actually looked pretty good last night vs VAN... lots of speed, dangerous forwards, promising goaltending. I still think they're too dependent on one line (and VAN seemed to figure out how to get that one line off their game last night), but perhaps a bubble team this year in the west.
|
 |
|
|
n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2014 : 09:20:28
|
mandree - you are overreacting. I'm not saying the Leafs were anything great, but they weren't terrible against Montreal (it was an overall sloppy game by both teams) and the beat down they got from Pittsburgh was from an effective power play . . . which has 2 of the best three players in the game on it.
Over. Reaction.
nuxfan - lot of things wrong with your points
Raymond - had good stats, but I am glad they didn't severely overpay to keep him. Just another soft forward who should not have been in Toronto's long-range plans.
Gunnarsson - decent defenceman. But Robidas is a huge upgrade, with leadership and experience.
Kulemin - had been declining, and I think it was a good move to get him off the team. Was no longer a player with tenacity that you noticed, and we had many acquisitions and young guys who I know will do better and be an upgrade.
Bolland - yes, he had a great . . . whatever it was, a 10, 15 game sample? But if Toronto had overpaid to keep him . . . you would have been first in line, making fun of the Leafs to do what they always do - overspend in third and fourth liners! Glad they passed on paying him a ridiculous contract (for a now injury risk player).
Gleason - this is where I KNOW you didn't watch Leaf games. Gleason looked very old and slow out there . . . he was disappointing, to be honest. Glad they got rid of him.
Orr and Mclaren - these are TOUGH GUYS, not TOUGHNESS. They played a few minutes a night, when they played. That doesn't change your hockey team, despite what garbage some of the players might even say.
And you listed the gains . . . but failed to point out:
Komarov - added toughness, elite checker, he's been great
Robidas - what does size have to do with it? He's listed at 5'11, 196 lbs . . . in today's NHL that's probably a bit on the lowside, but more average than anything. What that has to do with his skill or toughness or defensive acument is beyond me though.
From Wikipedia:
Robidas won TSN's "No Guts, No Glory" contest, an unofficial award for the 2008–09 NHL season's toughest player. He was selected as the winner after a loose puck had broken his jaw in a game against the Phoenix Coyotes; Robidas missed only one shift after the incident and played more minutes than any skater in that game.
And he has the penalty minutes to back up his "toughness" quotient as well.
Go ahead and mention he's an injury risk - he is, I'd totally agree with you. But if he gets to 60 games (fingers crossed) . . . he's a huge upgrade over Gunarsson, for what we need on D.
Screw the Habs. Boston Sucks. Bah Humbug, DeadWings . . . and yes, oh yes, Go LEAFS Go!!! Yeah, it's offseason baby! |
|
|
|
mandree888
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
400 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2014 : 15:58:44
|
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
mandree - you are overreacting. I'm not saying the Leafs were anything great, but they weren't terrible against Montreal (it was an overall sloppy game by both teams) and the beat down they got from Pittsburgh was from an effective power play . . . which has 2 of the best three players in the game on it.
Over. Reaction.
Maybee it was, but still for a franchise that has as large a fan base as the leafs coming out disinterested is unforgivable in my opinion. i do not believe the leafs will make the playoffs this year ( i hope they do), |
|
|
|
nuxfan
PickupHockey All-Star
3670 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2014 : 22:11:43
|
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
nuxfan - lot of things wrong with your points
Raymond - had good stats, but I am glad they didn't severely overpay to keep him. Just another soft forward who should not have been in Toronto's long-range plans.
Gunnarsson - decent defenceman. But Robidas is a huge upgrade, with leadership and experience.
Kulemin - had been declining, and I think it was a good move to get him off the team. Was no longer a player with tenacity that you noticed, and we had many acquisitions and young guys who I know will do better and be an upgrade.
Bolland - yes, he had a great . . . whatever it was, a 10, 15 game sample? But if Toronto had overpaid to keep him . . . you would have been first in line, making fun of the Leafs to do what they always do - overspend in third and fourth liners! Glad they passed on paying him a ridiculous contract (for a now injury risk player).
Gleason - this is where I KNOW you didn't watch Leaf games. Gleason looked very old and slow out there . . . he was disappointing, to be honest. Glad they got rid of him.
Orr and Mclaren - these are TOUGH GUYS, not TOUGHNESS. They played a few minutes a night, when they played. That doesn't change your hockey team, despite what garbage some of the players might even say.
And you listed the gains . . . but failed to point out:
Komarov - added toughness, elite checker, he's been great
Robidas - what does size have to do with it? He's listed at 5'11, 196 lbs . . . in today's NHL that's probably a bit on the lowside, but more average than anything. What that has to do with his skill or toughness or defensive acument is beyond me though.
From Wikipedia:
Robidas won TSN's "No Guts, No Glory" contest, an unofficial award for the 2008–09 NHL season's toughest player. He was selected as the winner after a loose puck had broken his jaw in a game against the Phoenix Coyotes; Robidas missed only one shift after the incident and played more minutes than any skater in that game.
And he has the penalty minutes to back up his "toughness" quotient as well.
Go ahead and mention he's an injury risk - he is, I'd totally agree with you. But if he gets to 60 games (fingers crossed) . . . he's a huge upgrade over Gunarsson, for what we need on D.
Raymond - overpay? He's coming off a 45 pt season, and only signed for 3M for 3 years with CGY. Not a bad price for 45pts on your second line and excellent PK to boot. He seemed to fit well in TOR. Santorelli (another VAN castoff) seems to be the replacement, we'll see how he does.
Robidas vs Gunnarson - I'll concede on the size, Gunnarson is about the same. But they're nearly the same dman - both can play about 20 min/night, both play significant time on the PK and hardly any PP, both make about the same amount of money... except Gunnarson is 10 years younger. I'm not sure how this is an upgrade, certainly beyond this season. Toughest dman in 2008/09, like 6 years ago? Great... Yeah, he has the penalty minutes, but I don't think they're the type of penalty minutes that you are hoping for - lots of stupid hooks/slashes/interference calls. I've seen him enough over his years in DAL to know the kind of guy you're getting - mobile dman, gets into trouble, likes to stir sh!t and then hide behind his full face shield and bigger guys. And yeah, he is an injury risk, but thats not necessarily a reason to not sign him.
Bolland - I agree, I would have been first in line, and the contract he got was crazy, TOR was smart not to do that. But the Leafs didn't replace him either...or is his replacement Kormorov?
Orr and McLaren - call them what you will, they were intimidating. I suppose Polak will replace some of that presence.
Alright then, we'll call it a wash. I still don't hold much hope for TOR this year, and see them as a near miss for the playoffs, but I am ready to be surprised.
Speaking of surprises, the rumor mill is a-fluttering with reports that Eric Staal is willing to waive his NTC to move to TOR. Now that would be an interesting development... |
Edited by - nuxfan on 10/14/2014 22:12:17 |
|
|
|
n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2014 : 06:36:41
|
quote:
Originally posted by nuxfan
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
nuxfan - lot of things wrong with your points
Raymond - had good stats, but I am glad they didn't severely overpay to keep him. Just another soft forward who should not have been in Toronto's long-range plans.
Gunnarsson - decent defenceman. But Robidas is a huge upgrade, with leadership and experience.
Kulemin - had been declining, and I think it was a good move to get him off the team. Was no longer a player with tenacity that you noticed, and we had many acquisitions and young guys who I know will do better and be an upgrade.
Bolland - yes, he had a great . . . whatever it was, a 10, 15 game sample? But if Toronto had overpaid to keep him . . . you would have been first in line, making fun of the Leafs to do what they always do - overspend in third and fourth liners! Glad they passed on paying him a ridiculous contract (for a now injury risk player).
Gleason - this is where I KNOW you didn't watch Leaf games. Gleason looked very old and slow out there . . . he was disappointing, to be honest. Glad they got rid of him.
Orr and Mclaren - these are TOUGH GUYS, not TOUGHNESS. They played a few minutes a night, when they played. That doesn't change your hockey team, despite what garbage some of the players might even say.
And you listed the gains . . . but failed to point out:
Komarov - added toughness, elite checker, he's been great
Robidas - what does size have to do with it? He's listed at 5'11, 196 lbs . . . in today's NHL that's probably a bit on the lowside, but more average than anything. What that has to do with his skill or toughness or defensive acument is beyond me though.
From Wikipedia:
Robidas won TSN's "No Guts, No Glory" contest, an unofficial award for the 2008–09 NHL season's toughest player. He was selected as the winner after a loose puck had broken his jaw in a game against the Phoenix Coyotes; Robidas missed only one shift after the incident and played more minutes than any skater in that game.
And he has the penalty minutes to back up his "toughness" quotient as well.
Go ahead and mention he's an injury risk - he is, I'd totally agree with you. But if he gets to 60 games (fingers crossed) . . . he's a huge upgrade over Gunarsson, for what we need on D.
Raymond - overpay? He's coming off a 45 pt season, and only signed for 3M for 3 years with CGY. Not a bad price for 45pts on your second line and excellent PK to boot. He seemed to fit well in TOR. Santorelli (another VAN castoff) seems to be the replacement, we'll see how he does.
Robidas vs Gunnarson - I'll concede on the size, Gunnarson is about the same. But they're nearly the same dman - both can play about 20 min/night, both play significant time on the PK and hardly any PP, both make about the same amount of money... except Gunnarson is 10 years younger. I'm not sure how this is an upgrade, certainly beyond this season. Toughest dman in 2008/09, like 6 years ago? Great... Yeah, he has the penalty minutes, but I don't think they're the type of penalty minutes that you are hoping for - lots of stupid hooks/slashes/interference calls. I've seen him enough over his years in DAL to know the kind of guy you're getting - mobile dman, gets into trouble, likes to stir sh!t and then hide behind his full face shield and bigger guys. And yeah, he is an injury risk, but thats not necessarily a reason to not sign him.
Bolland - I agree, I would have been first in line, and the contract he got was crazy, TOR was smart not to do that. But the Leafs didn't replace him either...or is his replacement Kormorov?
Orr and McLaren - call them what you will, they were intimidating. I suppose Polak will replace some of that presence.
Alright then, we'll call it a wash. I still don't hold much hope for TOR this year, and see them as a near miss for the playoffs, but I am ready to be surprised.
Speaking of surprises, the rumor mill is a-fluttering with reports that Eric Staal is willing to waive his NTC to move to TOR. Now that would be an interesting development...
Bolland for me was replaced by Winnik. He's a centre who can play wing, kills penalties, etc. And Winnik has no injury issues, comes WAY cheaper, and in the end is probably more effective on special teams. Not as skilled as Bolland, certainly.
Komarov is the antithesis of Raymond. Not even close to as skilled . . . but he changes the game. Elite checker, as you saw last night against Colorado, where he put up no points but his legal, unpenalised check in the second was the turning point in the game, and the major momentum swing. He's exactly what the Leafs were missing a bunch of . . . grit, defensive acumen, keeping the opposition on their toes/in check.
Orr and Mclaren were intimidating, sure. Good thing they only fought other fighters, and never had to fight the skilled players. Just like every single fighter. And if they try to fight a skilled player, it'd be a huge pile-up and that tough guy would get attacked by everyone else.
But that's a whole fighting debate.
Screw the Habs. Boston Sucks. Bah Humbug, DeadWings . . . and yes, oh yes, Go LEAFS Go!!! Yeah, it's offseason baby! |
|
|
|
The_Gipper
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
285 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2014 : 09:03:26
|
so here we are now 4 games in and the Leafs have won 2 in a row. does the subject question still stand?
since you were willing to ask "what's wrong with them?" after two losses in a row, can we assume then that now after two wins in a row you'll go the opposite direction and claim that everything is right with them?
as an additional comment.....after that debaucle against the Pens on Saturday night Kessel was quoted as saying that his line in particular "didn't get s*** done." Since then he's arguably been their best player. I guess he had enough.  |
|
|
|
mandree888
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
400 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2014 : 10:42:55
|
quote:
Originally posted by The_Gipper
so here we are now 4 games in and the Leafs have won 2 in a row. does the subject question still stand?
since you were willing to ask "what's wrong with them?" after two losses in a row, can we assume then that now after two wins in a row you'll go the opposite direction and claim that everything is right with them?
as an additional comment.....after that debaucle against the Pens on Saturday night Kessel was quoted as saying that his line in particular "didn't get s*** done." Since then he's arguably been their best player. I guess he had enough.
NOT A CHANCE! nice try though. this team got lucky against a NYR team that should be way better than way they played. and the avalanche took them to OT it could have gone either way. the advanced stats are only marginally better than last year. i still hold this question firmly. i don't expect a playoff performance from this team. but as nux said, i am ready to be surprised or proven wrong. |
|
|
|
n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2014 : 14:02:49
|
quote:
Originally posted by mandree888
quote:
Originally posted by The_Gipper
so here we are now 4 games in and the Leafs have won 2 in a row. does the subject question still stand?
since you were willing to ask "what's wrong with them?" after two losses in a row, can we assume then that now after two wins in a row you'll go the opposite direction and claim that everything is right with them?
as an additional comment.....after that debaucle against the Pens on Saturday night Kessel was quoted as saying that his line in particular "didn't get s*** done." Since then he's arguably been their best player. I guess he had enough.
NOT A CHANCE! nice try though. this team got lucky against a NYR team that should be way better than way they played. and the avalanche took them to OT it could have gone either way. the advanced stats are only marginally better than last year. i still hold this question firmly. i don't expect a playoff performance from this team. but as nux said, i am ready to be surprised or proven wrong.
Fair enough.
But how about those Oilers, hunh?
Don't just give us Leaf commentary . . . go ahead and write a topic about an 0-3 team! One that's lost by huge margins!
Not a team that went 0-2, and is now 2-2 . . .
Screw the Habs. Boston Sucks. Bah Humbug, DeadWings . . . and yes, oh yes, Go LEAFS Go!!! Yeah, it's offseason baby! |
|
|
|
mandree888
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
400 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2014 : 17:32:30
|
| lol the oilers in my opinion need to blow up the rebuild an start again. rebuild from the net out nuff said. eakins eithe rkeep him or ship him out now. |
|
|
|
Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2014 : 09:36:36
|
kinda gotta be with Slozo on this one, yes the start of the season hasn`t been ideal but come on, they havn t looked dismal like a lot of teams have,,
a good example of how its to early to start this is the Leafs arch rival, the habs, they are 4-1 but in all honesty they have not looked good for a 60 min game yet, the leafs were a better team on opening night, the cap and the flyers out played the habs easily for 40 min at least, but a couple good bounces and the habs got 2 points 4 times
the way the leaf`s have been playing they havnt been worse than the 4 and 1 habs they just havnt gotten the bounces the habs have gotten ,,
and i agree Komorov is a great addition to this team, 30 teams in the NHL would take this guy anyday of the week now, he is everything you want in a thrid liner and the dressing room!
Hello, 911? It's an emergency, my teddy bear's been kidnapped!
[pause] Hello? Hello?
|
|
|
|
Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2014 : 09:48:30
|
oh and Robidas is one of the hardest hiting dmen in the league, to cal him a small offensive d man does not describe him in any way shape or form! Polak and Robidas are both huge upgrades on Gleason
Hello, 911? It's an emergency, my teddy bear's been kidnapped!
[pause] Hello? Hello?
|
|
|
|
n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2014 : 06:42:29
|
Thanks for that Pasty. Agree almost completely on your take on the Habs, but you may have even been a bit harsh. The difference on opening night was goaltending Price was better, and despite the two fluky goals both ways at the end, Montreal deserved the win.
It's funny though talking about the Habs as the best team in the East . . . when no one has looked dominating at all in that conference. Every playoff spot is truly up for grabs this year, I feel. Literally almost any team can make the playoffs out of the east this year except for Buffalo probably.
Gonna be fun, competitive hockey to watch.
Screw the Habs. Boston Sucks. Bah Humbug, DeadWings . . . and yes, oh yes, Go LEAFS Go!!! Yeah, it's offseason baby! |
|
|
|
Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2014 : 06:53:15
|
very true even the almighty Bruins look very human, both the pens and bruins have questions on the back end, and both are missing a scroing winger, the east is wide open!
Hello, 911? It's an emergency, my teddy bear's been kidnapped!
[pause] Hello? Hello?
|
|
|
|
The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2014 : 14:25:09
|
Nuxfan, i cant full agree with you that the leafs didnt improve their team. The leafs 3rd and 4th lines last year were in my opinion , the WORST combined in the entire NHL....i think there is a vast improvement in their 3rd and 4th lines.
The leafs failed to improve their 1st and second lines. The leafs are very weak down the middle with their 1 - 2 punch. Bozak is playing well right now but is not a true 1st line center, this is of MAJOR concern for the leafs....Kadri is not and never will be a great center, he is too small, pushed off the puck too easily and CANNOT win a faceoff.....because of these concerns, the leafs are constantly trying to retrieve the puck instead of holding it, this is why their puck possession numbers are lousy.
Defense, what can i say when your 7 million dollar man CANT skate, enough said.
If the leafs had Eric Staal for 1st line center......bump Bozak to 2nd line center......rid themselves of kadri.......pick up a 2nd line winger to play with Bozak and Lupul....move Phaneuf anywhere and try to replace him with a D-man truely worth his cap space......they would look like a diffrent team who could really make the playoffs and make some noise.
Until these problems are addressed.......they will constantly look like the very inconsistent team they are. |
|
|
|
The_Gipper
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
285 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2014 : 11:27:43
|
Duke.....forget Staal. It would cost us too much to get him, and in two years time when he bolts as a UFA without winning us anything, we'll look back and only have regret for yet another bad Leafs trade.
Right now this team simply is lacking in effort. It's that simple. Other teams show up to play night in and night out, and we don't. Last nights game was a typical example of that. They need to solve their internal problems before they seek help externally. |
|
|
|
n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2014 : 10:03:16
|
quote:
Originally posted by The_Gipper
Duke.....forget Staal. It would cost us too much to get him, and in two years time when he bolts as a UFA without winning us anything, we'll look back and only have regret for yet another bad Leafs trade.
Right now this team simply is lacking in effort. It's that simple. Other teams show up to play night in and night out, and we don't. Last nights game was a typical example of that. They need to solve their internal problems before they seek help externally.
I'd be 60/40 on getting Eric Staal myself . . . I think sometimes the complexion and play of a team can change quite dramatically with just the exact right fit of a player. And Staal, IMHO, would be that guy. Look already what Komarov and Polak and Robidas have done as a third liner and 2 d-men who didn't really bring anything improved stats-wise to the table. Komarov alone has made this team tougher to play against . . . it's early, but the change is tangible. And I think a big, talented and very defensively sound top line centre is absolutely perfect for the Leafs, EVEN IF he is on the downside of his career.
As I stated last year . . . in the East, we are not so far away in terms of pieces from being a true contender - but the trouble is GETTING that one or two pieces.
I like the goaltending . . . the defence could be better, but it has for the moment solidified nicely and feels much better defensively than past years . . . our 3rd and fourth lines are better . . . and our forwards can, as always score . . . we just need that one top line centre who is great defensively. Even a guy of Mikko Koivu's abilities would be good enough, I think.
But getting that guy is tough. It's a trade where you'd have to give a lot to get it. It's have to be a gutsy move indeed, one where you're likely to give up on a young drafted player (Kadri, Gardiner, maybe even a Percy) and also likely to have to add in some high picks or other players with some value (Franson, Lupul, etc.)
Don't Leaf me hanging, Buds! |
|
|
|
Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 11/03/2014 : 11:36:07
|
the reason I think grabbing Staal is a good game plan for the leafs depending on what they have to give up of course is because as a habs fan they scare me with staal added to their lineup.
Staal centering JVR and Kessel makes one hell of a top line, close to as good as any in the league, or you can keep Bozak with them as they seem to gel well and Staal would deffinetly get Lupul going,,
all in all as a habs fan i dont want the leafs to trade for Staal unless they give up Kessel JVR Bernier to get him hahaha 
Hello, 911? It's an emergency, my teddy bear's been kidnapped!
[pause] Hello? Hello?
|
|
|
|
The_Gipper
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
285 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2014 : 10:52:26
|
I agree with what your saying in terms of adding Staal to our roster. I have no doubt that he would be an instant upgrade to our team. What worries me most is what we would have to give up via trade in order to acquire him. What worries me second most is that in two years he will leave town as a UFA and we'll have nothing to show for his time here (except perhaps a playoff round win or two).
Most of the additions we made this past off-season came via free agency, and only cost us cash and cap space. We gave up nothing in terms of our future assets in order to get them, You know very well the Leafs' past is littered with bad trades. I think this is another one that we would look back on and wish for yet another re-neg.
This one I say let's take a pass (unless we can absolutely steal him from rookie GM Ron Francis), and continue to move forward with the youth that we have in house and see how they develop. |
|
|
|
JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2014 : 14:10:44
|
Im gonna give the same advice to Leafs fans as I gave to Oilers fans. Wait till the 20 game mark before looking for the broken parts and pieces. So far the leafs have been playing good hockey with a winning record, especially in the last 10. They are scoring near the top ten at 11th and are midpack at 14th on goals against. The special teams are average with the penaly kill is at 12th, while the powerplay is 14th. Shots for are 14th, but shots against are up again at 25th, face off % is 13th and 5/5 goals the are 15th.
Basically they are very average except in shots against. The only concern is the home record, which didn't help with the start to the season 0-2. With there lineup to be in the average, id say is a good sign as they really didn't change much in the offseason much, and IMO didn't improve any over last seasons lineup, yet are getting good results. |
|
|
|
JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2014 : 14:41:43
|
| I just did a comparison between the Sens and the Leafs and found they were fairly similar. Being how there is only a point between them I figured to it would be. The only startling stats are Shots against and faceoff % which is much worse for my team. The only big plus for my team was the home winning record, 3-0-2 compared to Toronto at 3-4. Seems Ottawa is better in tight games at home. Either way both are midpack in the east/league overall, which is good based on subtractions versus additions to the lineup since last season. |
|
|
|
The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 11/09/2014 : 19:35:05
|
Gipper, if Staal came to Toronto, i think it would be a long term commitment from him. Why else would he come ?...Firstly, he would have to waive his no trade clause, suggesting he wants to be there.
The leafs are certainly not a cup contender in the next 2 years so Staal wouldn`t come for that reason.
These teams with pending Free agents know wether or not they are staying with the team long before free agency. Just say the leafs make the deal and in 2 years Staal informs the leafs he is not staying....What kind of return do you think Staal would fetch at the trade deadline from a contender ?...a very handsome one i`d bet.
I`d trade Gardiner, Kadri and a high pick for Staal in a heart beat, i wouldn`t even hesitate. You would have to go back to the days of Clark and Gilmour to find such a valuable player as Staal would bring to the leafs.
Its a no lose situation. |
|
|
|
mandree888
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
400 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2014 : 10:29:50
|
| Still think there is nothing wrong with the leafs? then you need a wake up call. if this team keeps playing this way there is no chance of the blue and white in the play-offs. I personally think this is the coaches system that is not working. it only works when kessel is on fire. and you cant have a system that only works when one person is playing. Carlyle ( who I was a big fan of coming to the T dot) needs to either change the system or ship out. just my opinion. |
|
|
|
The_Gipper
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
285 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2014 : 05:12:59
|
I would hardly say there is NOTHING wrong. there is plenty wrong with this team, I think that has been made perfectly clear. but having said that, it's only been two games. true they were two embarrassing losses, but nonetheless only two games. I still think they are good enough on paper to make the playoffs, and I will stick to that prediction.
there is still lots of hockey left to be played, and they are only 4 pts out of 4th in the conference. no need to panic just yet. but they clearly need to right the ship before it's too late. |
|
|
|
mandree888
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
400 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2014 : 08:35:02
|
quote:
Originally posted by The_Gipper
I would hardly say there is NOTHING wrong. there is plenty wrong with this team, I think that has been made perfectly clear. but having said that, it's only been two games. true they were two embarrassing losses, but nonetheless only two games. I still think they are good enough on paper to make the playoffs, and I will stick to that prediction.
there is still lots of hockey left to be played, and they are only 4 pts out of 4th in the conference. no need to panic just yet. but they clearly need to right the ship before it's too late.
Sorry, i think your blinders are on, this team has played horrible defensively for the better part of the year and most of last year. in the 6-1-1 streak they enjoyed, their goals against average was 3.33 that means they NEED to score 4 goals per game in order to win. and when only one person is scoring, you just cant expect to win at all.
I am saying it now Fire Carlyle, give the interim spot to Steve Spott, see if Babcock wants to come to T.O and if he doesn't try to hire Bylsma, and if he has no interest take a look at some other defensively minded coach.
As a leaf fan i have had enough of the slow starts crap defence and excuses, make something happen we can be happy to spend our hard earned money on!!! |
|
|
|
JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2014 : 10:39:56
|
| Not surprised to see someone wait until after a blowout or 2 to point out just how bad the situation is in Toronto. Did anyone comment on the blowouts in Chicago or Detroit this season. Anyone calling for the coaches jobs there. Bad games happen. It looks like at times the Players are lacking the energy needed on the ice during the bad games, Reimer was throw under the bus again by the commentators during the game, but during the good runs the bounces are going there way. Welcome to the NHL. That being said, there are problem areas needing addressing and yes, Kessel can't be a one man show. I just don't see the situation as badly as others are making it out to be, yet. |
|
|
|
mandree888
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
400 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2014 : 10:52:36
|
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
Not surprised to see someone wait until after a blowout or 2 to point out just how bad the situation is in Toronto. Did anyone comment on the blowouts in Chicago or Detroit this season. Anyone calling for the coaches jobs there. Bad games happen. It looks like at times the Players are lacking the energy needed on the ice during the bad games, Reimer was throw under the bus again by the commentators during the game, but during the good runs the bounces are going there way. Welcome to the NHL. That being said, there are problem areas needing addressing and yes, Kessel can't be a one man show. I just don't see the situation as badly as others are making it out to be, yet.
... are chicago and detroits GAA at 3.33?? no i didn't think so. also i don't follow them. at all. if i did your damn right i would be calling for the coaches job if the GAA was 3.33 and the offence wasn't there. i am seriously debated calling for Patrick Roy's job as well. this season has been dismal for the Avs. |
|
|
|
JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 11/20/2014 : 12:30:50
|
| That stat looks bad today, but before there latest loss they were 2.83 goals against average and the game prior they were 2.65 gaa. 2 games makes a huge difference this early in the season. But 15 goals against in 2 games ain't great, either. |
|
|
|
Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2014 : 10:17:12
|
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
Did anyone comment on the blowouts in Chicago or Detroit this season. Anyone calling for the coaches jobs there. Bad games happen.
I'm gonna be honest, I've been busy with work, family and watching a lot of football (in a couple of large $ pools), to the point where I've not followed hockey as much as I normally do. What are these blowouts in Chicago and Detroit you speak of? I def must have missed them??? |
|
|
|
JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2014 : 14:03:26
|
| Couple 1-4 games against for Chicago/Detroit. 1-4 isn't really a blowout, but I was just making a point that bad games happen. If you want a team considered top tier which is really laying some stinkers, Boston has lost to Montreal 1-5, Toronto 1-6 and Washington 0-4. They sit 4th in the Atlantic only 2 points ahead of Toronto, but no one is calling for Therrien's job or worried about Boston. Yet Toronto fans are hating on the Leafs right now. |
|
|
|
Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 11/21/2014 : 14:12:07
|
Couple of things:
1) Boston is 8-4-0 at home while Toronto is 6-6-0. Early in the season I know but it's often what fans see at home that is what people talk about
2) Boston is missing their best players. I think most people would have lower expectations of their team when they lose their best player. Toronto is healthy.
3) Most importantly, Toronto is the centre of the hockey media universe. That places a brighter spotlight on that team comparatively to anyone else. Watching mostly stuff on a local level, there is talk about Boston outside of Toronto. It's just likely overshadowed by the volume of talk about TO.
4) The Toronto fans and media are fickle. The temperature of the stories run hotter and colder than the team is hot and cold. Losses weigh heavier than wins.
5) What more interesting to me is the lack of chatter about the Leafs apparently snubbing the fans last night and not doing a salute after a big home win.
|
|
|
|
Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 11/22/2014 : 14:55:28
|
| Joshua....in fairness, a single 4-1 loss by a good team pales in comparison to a team with a fed up fan base which gets blown out 9-2 (after trailing 8-0) to a team known for its defence (Nashville) the game following a 6-2 loss to a team many think would be a middle of the road AHL club (Buffalo). Heck, 4-1 is hardly a blowout! I think very few Hawks / Wings fans were overly concerned with a single 4-1 loss considering their recent history. Leaf fans have been expecting their team to improve these past few seasons and to see back to back losses like those has gotta be heart wrenching!!! |
|
|
|
mandree888
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
400 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2014 : 06:47:06
|
Ok so the last two games have been the most complete games the leafs have played all year. Kudos to the leafs for that!
Dont get me wrong i still think Carlyle needs to go. i am not convinced that his system is going to take the leafs to the promised land. we need a new age proven coach. |
|
|
|
JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2014 : 11:04:17
|
2 games later Toronto is back in the thick of the playoff teams a single point behind Detroit. I get the point about the 9-2 blowout against Nashville, but use it as a wake up call against one of the most complete teams in the League right now.
The loss 2-6 against Buffalo was Buffalo's first win of the season on Buffalo ice and they were due for a win at home. It embarrassing, but Montreal losing 0-5 to the Rangers on Sunday is just as embarrassing. Again nobody calling for the coach there. My point is bad games happen.
Overall Toronto is doing ok with a game catering around one player Kessel at (5th) in goals for, (13th) in shots for, (7th) in PK, (15th) on the PP, with shots against not so great (26th) and goals against not great (22nd), yet the sit (13th) in a 30 team league, (7th) in the east, so no point in panicking yet. Even the GAA has improved to a 2.95 from the staggering 3.33. Unless you are expecting this to be a stanely cup favorite, i'd say they are right on track with the roster they have. |
|
|
|
mandree888
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
400 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2014 : 14:36:22
|
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
2 games later Toronto is back in the thick of the playoff teams a single point behind Detroit. I get the point about the 9-2 blowout against Nashville, but use it as a wake up call against one of the most complete teams in the League right now.
The loss 2-6 against Buffalo was Buffalo's first win of the season on Buffalo ice and they were due for a win at home. It embarrassing, but Montreal losing 0-5 to the Rangers on Sunday is just as embarrassing. Again nobody calling for the coach there. My point is bad games happen.
Overall Toronto is doing ok with a game catering around one player Kessel at (5th) in goals for, (13th) in shots for, (7th) in PK, (15th) on the PP, with shots against not so great (26th) and goals against not great (22nd), yet the sit (13th) in a 30 team league, (7th) in the east, so no point in panicking yet. Even the GAA has improved to a 2.95 from the staggering 3.33. Unless you are expecting this to be a stanely cup favorite, i'd say they are right on track with the roster they have.
kinda my point this team should be a Stanley cup favourite every year! if they arent in the top 10 then something needs to change. 11 and down is not good enough! |
|
|
|
JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 11/25/2014 : 17:56:21
|
| They might float at or near the top 10 at points this season, but you can't look at the roster and say this team is screaming at you "top 10 team". St Louis, LA, Boston, Chicago, Pittsburg, Rangers, Anaheim, Nashville are screaming to me Top 10 teams. That's 8 teams without a few of the usual suspects (San Jose/ Minny struggling) fighting it out for top ten, with Detroit, Montreal, Vancouver, Calgary and the Islanders playing like they belong there, that's 15 teams, 16 if you count Toronto! The team Toronto has now doesn't scream to me better than any of those as is without adding to the existing team. To me 13 is right on target maybe even a bit higher that what I would expect, with other teams icing similar quality lineups nipping at there heels. Im not ragging on Toronto, because I feel the same about my own team right now. Be happily surprised if either or both make the playoffs this year. |
Edited by - JOSHUACANADA on 11/25/2014 18:05:48 |
|
|
|
The Duke
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1239 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2014 : 11:30:11
|
Leafs are a very bad defensive team.
Phaneuf absolutely SUCKS....guy moves like a cement truck and spends too much time looking at the opposition in his own end making plays, while holding his stick with ONE hand and doing nothing....terrible D man.
Until they replace Phaneuf with a true defensive leader, this will never change.
How can u expect their defensive game to improve when ur go - to guy is a clutz ???.....its been like this since Phaneuf came to Toronto. |
|
|
|
n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2014 : 11:41:30
|
quote:
Originally posted by The Duke
Leafs are a very bad defensive team.
Phaneuf absolutely SUCKS....guy moves like a cement truck and spends too much time looking at the opposition in his own end making plays, while holding his stick with ONE hand and doing nothing....terrible D man.
Until they replace Phaneuf with a true defensive leader, this will never change.
How can u expect their defensive game to improve when ur go - to guy is a clutz ???.....its been like this since Phaneuf came to Toronto.
Disagree. Pretty strongly, in fact . . . and I'm no Phaneuf lover at all.
Phaneuf is easily an above average defenceman. Formerly great offence, now just above average. Is a bit slow, but can be physical and plays a fairly sound game OVERALL. Ideally a solid #2 or #3 d-man.
So that being said . . . him being the most dependable defenceman by default is not his fault.
Him being assigned captaincy is not his fault.
Him getting the most minutes on the defence corps is not his fault.
And lastly,
Phaneuf getting 6+ million is NOT an idictment on his level of play.
The reason for the Leafs being a team destined for slightly below mediocrity is (in order):
1. the coach (Carlyle)
2. Kessel (one of the few superstar liabilities in the NHL, terrible attitude that filters down through the entire team, defensively horrific)
There's really not much else. Would be nice to have a better, more physical top line centre; and a better top pairing d-man would be great. Surely though, one of those could be acquired with the trade of Kessel.
I'd keep Phaneuf - because of his salary, he'd only be dispensed of for a few scraps . . . and he's a plus for the Leafs.
Don't Leaf me hanging, Buds! |
|
|
|
Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2014 : 15:14:51
|
Not to start a war but I think that is the first disparaging remark I have ever heard Slozo say about Kessel. He was one of the biggest advocates of 'the trade' and supporting it as a win for the Leafs.
I wonder if it's time to reopen the who won the trade debate?
Just for fun:
Phil Kessel and Tyler Seguin were both with the Bruins for the first 3 years of their careers and were then traded to a team out of the playoff hunt.
Through 4 seasons:
Kessel - 292 games, 96 goals, 85 assists, 181 pts. -3
Seguin - 283 games - 93 goals, 112 assists, 205 pts, +69
Remember all those blowhards talking about taking the sure thing in Kessel and he's a proven goal scorer, blah, blah, blah. Let's not forget that trade was also for the pick that materialized into Dougie Hamilton, the 21 yrd old, mobile, 6'5" defensemen with 20 goals and 60 pts in 143 NHL games??
You want to know what's wrong with the Leafs? They made a terrible trade for Phil Kessel 5 years ago. Much like the Oilers made terrible mistake after terrible mistake after the Cup run, the Leafs are also paying for a terrible mistake from their past.
Take Kessel and Phaneuf off that team and add Seguin and Hamilton and not only is the team better (marginally) but they don't have $14 million tied up in 2 players for the next decade.
This Oilers completely suck but this makes me smile.
|
|
|
|
The_Gipper
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
285 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2015 : 07:53:26
|
actually Beans it started before that, when Burke had a chance to get in a good position to draft Tavares. that year he was hired mid-season, the Leafs were terrible and heading towards a basement finish. but rather then just let the season play out, he went out at the deadline and acquired veteran goaltender Martin Gerber. Gerber played pretty much the rest of the season and his play helped vault the Leafs from a potential no. 1 pick to the 7th pick.
but what added even more salt to the wound was near seasons end, when Burke stated in a media scrum that he was going to do whatever it took to move his team up to the no. 1 draft position in order to take Tavares.
then after failing to do that, later that summer he made that still debatable "terrible trade" for Kessel.
...and so the story continues. |
|
|
|
JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2015 : 10:15:08
|
I have to agree with Beans in that this is the first time I can remember when Slozo has slagged Kessel. I am not a fan or unfan of him, but I don't have the opinion you have Slozo. Players of his offensive calibre need to play with balanced linemates or it exposes there score first mentality. Funny that you should mention the Seguin comparison again, as he would have been the perfect fit to play alongside Kessel.
It would help if Kessel didn't have to be the one man show driving the offense. There is a big gap from Kessel to the rest of the offense in Toronto. I mean that statement in pure offensive quality not statistically as Van Reimsdyk and Bozak stats look decent, while Lupul and Kadri stats look quite poor considering hype and past performances. |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
What's Wrong with the Leafs? 
