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leafsfan_101
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1530 Posts |
 Posted - 12/18/2007 : 15:48:34
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I noticed that this year both Henrik Lunqdvist and Dion Phaneuff are RFA's this off season. With the huge deal given to Mike Richards, Phaneuff and Lundqvist could get substantial pay raises.
A sit I look at regularly says that Phaneuff could get a deal very similar to Richards. Now that means he makes an average salary of 5.4 mil/season. Richards contract is back loaded, so I think the Flmes could do the same. Next year the Flames have 38 mil locked up in guaranteed money, which means there is approx 12 mil left in signings to be paid out. Conroy, Langkow, Nolan, Huselies, Yelle, Godard and Hale are UFA's. Phaneuff and Adam Pardy are RFA's. So with 38 mil locked up for next year, resigning Phaneuff could be difficult, especially if a team offers him a ridiculously high offer sheet that the Flames will have to match.
The Rangers have a similar situation, but possibly an even more difficult one. Although they have an estimated 18 mil locked up for next year, a good majority of the team has to be signed, including almost the whole defense corps and about half their offense. A source says that Lundqvist could make about 9 mil next year, and Kipper's contract is the one that put the bar up.
What are your thoughts?
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2007 : 08:45:44
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Ok, let's start with Phaneuf. Firstly, they have bee talking contract and it's in the range of $4.8 million to $5.3 million per season. He will not get a Richards type contract. Neither Kennan or Sutter put that much faith into any player. I can see a 4 year deal, but not much more than that. They have been talking but seem to be not getting very far. If I was a betting man(which I am) I would bet pretty heavily that he is signed before the summer FA period begins.
The Rangers are a more interesting situation. I highly doubt that Lundqvist will get $9 million. He might ask for it and/or leave NY to see if someone else will pay him, but I just can't see $9 million. He's still young at 25 and has played less than 3 full seasons. I can see him getting a long term deal that back loaded. Next year, the highest paid goalie is Kipprusoff at $8 million, then Luongo at $7 million. I can see Lunqvist with a 4-5 year deal, $5 million to start and finishing up the last few years at around $8 million. If he does the normal goalie trend in really not hitting their prime until their last 20's/early 30's, his next contract could easily crack the $ 9 million/season.
But ya, NYR is going to have some very interesting Cap challenges in the off season. 4 of thier D-men are UFA's, and the other 2 are RFA's. Unless they have some amazing guys on the farm, it will be tough. Roszival will be looking for a raise on his $2.3 million/year for sure. Straka and Avery are both UFA's as well.
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!! |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2007 : 10:20:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Ok, let's start with Phaneuf. Firstly, they have bee talking contract and it's in the range of $4.8 million to $5.3 million per season. He will not get a Richards type contract. Neither Kennan or Sutter put that much faith into any player. I can see a 4 year deal, but not much more than that. They have been talking but seem to be not getting very far. If I was a betting man(which I am) I would bet pretty heavily that he is signed before the summer FA period begins.
The Rangers are a more interesting situation. I highly doubt that Lundqvist will get $9 million. He might ask for it and/or leave NY to see if someone else will pay him, but I just can't see $9 million. He's still young at 25 and has played less than 3 full seasons. I can see him getting a long term deal that back loaded. Next year, the highest paid goalie is Kipprusoff at $8 million, then Luongo at $7 million. I can see Lunqvist with a 4-5 year deal, $5 million to start and finishing up the last few years at around $8 million. If he does the normal goalie trend in really not hitting their prime until their last 20's/early 30's, his next contract could easily crack the $ 9 million/season.
But ya, NYR is going to have some very interesting Cap challenges in the off season. 4 of thier D-men are UFA's, and the other 2 are RFA's. Unless they have some amazing guys on the farm, it will be tough. Roszival will be looking for a raise on his $2.3 million/year for sure. Straka and Avery are both UFA's as well.
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!!
i firmly believe it is a terrible idea to ever back load a contract especially for a goalie,,, you never know whst the futur holds and then when the futur bites you in the....... how do you get rid of a 8 million $$ goalie who is not perfroming,, you cant buy him out you cant get rid of him,,,
Pasty |
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Guest8372
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Posted - 12/19/2007 : 13:37:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Pasty7
i firmly believe it is a terrible idea to ever back load a contract especially for a goalie,,, you never know whst the futur holds and then when the futur bites you in the....... how do you get rid of a 8 million $$ goalie who is not perfroming,, you cant buy him out you cant get rid of him,,,
In the cap era, I think it is bad to back load any contract. I can't seem to think why you would want to back load a contract. The cap hit is the yearly average of the contract. You can get cap credits for buying out a contract if the contract is front loaded and hence one of the loop holes that allows you to "go over" the cap.
For example: if a you sign a player for 10 years at $100M, your cap hit is $10M/season. But the contract is back loaded such that the last 2 years the player is only paid $1M/year.
The team decides to buy out the player in the last 2 years. I think there are some percentage of the buyout that applies but I can't remember but assume it is 100%, the buyout amount can be spread out over double the amount of the number of years bought out. So the team takes a cap hit of $0.5M/year for 4 years. But the team gets a credit of $9.5M in the first 2 years of the buy out year because the team was charged with the $10M/year cap hit for the player they bought out.
(Did any of that make sense?)
Take a look at Richards contract again. The last couple of years, it is worth less than the average cap hit of the entire contract. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2007 : 07:56:52
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OK, let's deal with a couple of things.
1)Although some what confusing, the CBA on pages 207 and 208 will show you a backloaded contract then front loading a contract. Using the example of a 3 year contract worth $12 million. If the contract was front loaded as follows:
1st Year-$6 million
2nd Year-$4 million
3rd Year-$2 million
If a buy out occurred after the first year, the cap hit would be a total of $6 million over 4 years, with one of those years having a $3 million hit and the rest having hits of $1 million. On the other hand, a contract back loaded with the same values but reversed would have a total of $4.66 million over the same 4 years and actually a year of a $333,333 credit and the remaining years having $1.66 million against the cap.
Long story short, there isn't that much of a benefit of front loading a contract. In fact, if a GM is signing a contract assuming he will buy it out, it would make more sense to back load.
2) There is a big difference between signing Lundqvist to a 5 year deal, ending when he's 30 and Richard's 12 year contract. Firstly, with Richard's deal, for example, if they want out after the 5th year, the buy out will effect their payroll for not the remaining 7 years, but 14 years!! (Yes, they also explain that in the CBA).
3) The 100% rules controls major difference in the contract. It basically says(read page 219 in the CBA), a player's contract can not change (up or down) by more then the lower of the first two years of the contract year over year. For example, if a contract pays a player $1 million in the first year and $2 million in the 2nd year, the third year can't be more than $3 million as the most it can go up is $1 million(the lowest of the first two years). The 4th year it couldn't be more than $4 million and/ or less than $2 million. And So on. This actually helps to front load a contract(as in Breire's Case) because if the value of the contract is very high in the first two years, the change in the contract down the road can be larger.
4) If you made it to this point in the post, nice work. Finally, the CBA stipulates that each team can only buy out 3 times in the length of the CBA, which is through 2011. Teams don't sign contracts based on if they will have to buy them out or not.
Wayne or Bobby?? How about both!!! |
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Are the Flames and Rangers in trouble? 
