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Leafsfan_94
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1070 Posts |
 Posted - 10/13/2008 : 19:26:14
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now that i have most leafs fans attention i would like to plead my case.
ok when you looked at vesa's stats with San Jose everybody thought he would help the leafs big time. well maybe that was because SJ is a great team. yes toskala is a good goalie but he is like the most un positioned goalie in the NHL. he was like Hasek, only hasek was alot better. he would flop around on the ice and gamble on shots. to me some of his highlight saves he makes are because of luck. he is not a persistant goaltender he doesnt play well every night, not saying the leafs do but toskala doesnt help much. i look back on some of the goals hes let in and hes not even positioned right in his net. alot of people are going to hate me for this but. RAYCROFT was better than toskala. raycroft got 37 wins which is great for a crappy team like toronto's 06-07 team. their 07-08 was better than their 06-07 team and toskala still only pulled off 33 wins. put it this way im sure lots of teams are looking for goalies and toskala could be that goalie. teams can give up good players,draft picks and top prospects etc. CuJo may be getting washed up but im sure he cant do THAT bad as a starter. and pogge is ready for the NHL he played great in the pre-season and would make a great back up
what do you leaf fans think about toskala? and if you like him or hate him what would you do with him?
Leafsfan_94
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your mumma make me *****
Top Prospect
15 Posts |
Posted - 10/13/2008 : 19:35:50
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look i only read half of this and (ADMIN - CONTENT REMOVED) mention this but i guess its a forum and (ADMIN - CONTENT REMOVED) first off we just f***ing wasted rask and a first rounder for raycroft and he sucked d*** and was thrown under the bus in about 4 months. he was so unconsistent it hurt me to watch him play. also you have to take into account that year we should have made the playoffs if we had belfour we wouldve made the playoffs. we had three top 20 defenseman that year kaberle, mccabe ( very arguable but his slap shot was owning) and kubina who had just come from tampa and was looking very good. we had sundin, oniell who was looking also good and im not gonna continue but you know we had a decent team that year.
toskala is doing fine holding it down right now but at times he does look weak and sloppy but overall a good job. so please we have a 75 year old who is going straight to retirement after this so lets get a new gm before we start firing off some of our building blocks to this team.
(ADMIN - Please show respect to other members - any concerns please mail support at pickuphockey.com - Thanks) |
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Guest4157
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Posted - 10/14/2008 : 05:03:05
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| I agree i watched toskala and he is waaaayyy out of position on most shots.....yes he will make the odd amazing game breaker save but he doesnt need to if he was in position hes makin it harder 4 himself 2 play....big mistake gettin rid of rask.....poggee is looking 2 be the leafs savior...right now they ned a real strong goalie like a lundqvist or a luongo |
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Guest8228
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Posted - 10/14/2008 : 05:10:52
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What do you do with him? You leave him in net. Are you kidding?
The Leafs defence is porous at best. Even through the ok years of the late 90's and early 00's when they had good players, they still didn't have a good defence.....it's pretty much the same now, with some different names.
Toskala is the only good thing the Leafs have going right now. They need a guy that can go in there night after night, stealing a game here and there - and dropping a 6-1 loss here and there. Throwing Pogge under the bus is NOT the right move, nor is it right to bring him up to sit.
Ridiculous. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2008 : 08:55:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest8228
What do you do with him? You leave him in net. Are you kidding?
The Leafs defence is porous at best. Even through the ok years of the late 90's and early 00's when they had good players, they still didn't have a good defence.....it's pretty much the same now, with some different names.
Toskala is the only good thing the Leafs have going right now. They need a guy that can go in there night after night, stealing a game here and there - and dropping a 6-1 loss here and there. Throwing Pogge under the bus is NOT the right move, nor is it right to bring him up to sit.
Ridiculous.
I can not agree more. This is one of the thing with Leafs fans that has frustrated me since I started watching hockey. Why do a reasonable number of Leaf fans always think the goalie is to blame??? As far back as I can remember! Think of the amazing goalies that have been ran out of Toronto. A couple of Hall of Famers in Belfour and CuJo the first time around. Seriously!!
Toskala is the only player of caliber on the team. No question. I agree that he would put up better numbers on a better team. That's a give in. However, you could put any one of the top 5 goalies in the league in net for Toronto and that might (and I mean might) improve the team by a couple of wins over the season.
Toskala is a legitimate top 10 goalie in the league. Regardless of what all you "experts" think about him positionally. Bottom line, he does an above average job in net.
Before Toskala was to be move, I would suggest looking at every single other position in front of him first!!
And by the way, Pogge in the exhibition season showed exactly what he is today. Average at best. He is not ready to be a NHL goalie yet. That means backing up or starting. He just isn't there. |
Edited by - Beans15 on 10/14/2008 09:03:56 |
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4809 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2008 : 11:34:44
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You haven't convinced me, Leafsfan_94.
In the Leaf's only win of the season, a remarkable game in Detroit where we beat the champs, Toskala surely was a big part of the win, if not one of the major reasons. Toskala was NOT the reason we lost to Montreal, not even close. And, finally, it wasn't Toskala who let down the team to let Columbus steal the extra point from us - it was Hollweg, the new Toronto Belak fill-in.
Toskala is a very good goalie, something which is sorely needed on a young, defensively inexperienced team. And Pogge is not ready yet, and frankly, doesn't look like the saviour we all wanted him to be.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Leafsfan_94
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1070 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2008 : 19:02:44
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im not saying hes not a good goalie but hes not consistant and im not saying all the games are his fault but like i sed hes a flopper he gambles on his shot and is always out of position you cant have a goalie who does that and its possible to get good players from him from teams who need goaltending. put it this way toskala is not a starting goalie. he gives up too many goals. thats why they didnt make him starter in san Jose. he played like 35 games and did fine. not hes play 60 games and isnt doin much better than raycroft did.
Leafsfan_94
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Leafsfan_94
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1070 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2008 : 19:08:34
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quote:
Originally posted by your mumma make me *****
kaberle, mccabe ( very arguable but his slap shot was owning) and kubina who had just come from tampa and was looking very good.
umm i dont know why everybody likes kaberle so much. hes a wet p****. hes afraid to get hit, hes afraid to give a hit, when hes in the corner(or just anywhere)with the puck somebody comes to hit him he gives them the puck and skates off, always passes the puck and never shoots. i admit he has a accurate wrist shot but he never uses it. mccabe is fine, good leader played good defence and a huge slapshot. and he would have done better of they played him on his RIGHT WING. incase anyone else has noticed mccabe doesnt play on the same wing as he used to when he was a really good. and im not sold on kubina yet but he has a big shot is a good leader is decent at defence. hes no bobby orr but hes not a bad addition to the leafs team/
Leafsfan_94
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your mumma make me *****
Top Prospect
15 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2008 : 20:05:55
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quote:
[i]. and im not sold on kubina yet but he has a big shot is a good leader is decent at defence. hes no bobby orr but hes not a bad addition to the leafs team
dude c'mon are you serious how would you know hes a good leader. and kaberle is a smart player if you watch him he knows his strengths and weaknesses and i agree with you a little that he is a p**** but he isnt made for bruising hes made for offense. and i like his positioning and i know that when im watching the games that he will proboaly make the right defensive move when a giveaway happens. dude the leafs this year are all defense so how bout we keep toskala and stop wishing raycroft was back here
oh and beans15 go easy on me im just trash talking you dont need to go crazy with the censorship.
(ADMIN EDIT - It wasn't Beans, it was the site Administrator. I really appreciate the contribution and you obviously have some valuable things to say but you were aggresively insulting a fellow member and that is something we don't allow. Since you are new it seemed like a good time to let you know. PS - Welcome to the site!  ) |
Edited by - your mumma make me ***** on 10/14/2008 20:06:55 |
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Guest0584
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Posted - 10/15/2008 : 07:09:31
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| you could prolly trade toskala for a second rounder and a player like oscar moller off LA, for what its worth |
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Guest2902
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Posted - 10/15/2008 : 09:23:17
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Ha ha you leaf fans are a joke. YOu are complaining about your goaile. Your whole team sucks exception for coaching. Really do you see a future for your team. What do have to look forward to a future goailie in Pogge and a great defencemen whom was drafted this year. LOL. Good luck in this season and the next 5 in being competitive. Need to keep draft picks in order to build. Toronto management can't contain themselves in overpaying mediocre stars.
quote:
Originally posted by Leafsfan_94
now that i have most leafs fans attention i would like to plead my case.
ok when you looked at vesa's stats with San Jose everybody thought he would help the leafs big time. well maybe that was because SJ is a great team. yes toskala is a good goalie but he is like the most un positioned goalie in the NHL. he was like Hasek, only hasek was alot better. he would flop around on the ice and gamble on shots. to me some of his highlight saves he makes are because of luck. he is not a persistant goaltender he doesnt play well every night, not saying the leafs do but toskala doesnt help much. i look back on some of the goals hes let in and hes not even positioned right in his net. alot of people are going to hate me for this but. RAYCROFT was better than toskala. raycroft got 37 wins which is great for a crappy team like toronto's 06-07 team. their 07-08 was better than their 06-07 team and toskala still only pulled off 33 wins. put it this way im sure lots of teams are looking for goalies and toskala could be that goalie. teams can give up good players,draft picks and top prospects etc. CuJo may be getting washed up but im sure he cant do THAT bad as a starter. and pogge is ready for the NHL he played great in the pre-season and would make a great back up
what do you leaf fans think about toskala? and if you like him or hate him what would you do with him?
Leafsfan_94
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2008 : 09:54:19
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Just as a side note, where is Raycroft now??? That's right, backing up a back up in Colorado. Petr Budaj is barely an NHL caliber starter and Raycroft can't even beat him out for a starting job!
Raycroft is a weak goalie who had an opportunity to play alot in his rookie year. There is a reason what he was dumped by petty much every team he has played for. He will be dumped from Colorado as well, it's only a matter of time.
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Edited by - Beans15 on 10/15/2008 09:54:43 |
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Guest0386
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Posted - 10/15/2008 : 11:05:02
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| Toskala is definetly a top 10 NHL goalie playing on a poor team. Trade him? No way, he does get out of position and does seem to flop around a bit, but he makes big saves and had the ability to steal a game or two. Being out of position and flopping around sounds an awful lot like Domonic Hasek who happens to have some Vezina's on his mantle now doesn't he! Maple leaf fans need some patience, several other teams have done what the leafs are doing now and have been rewarded with a cup or a finals appearance. Pittsburg, Tampa, Carolina, Anaheim, Edmonton, Calgary, even the Redwings (I hate them) have drafted well and built their teams up over time, each has won a cup or been to the finals. |
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Leafsfan_94
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1070 Posts |
Posted - 12/23/2008 : 19:14:06
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his performance tonight doesnt ever want me to change my mind about him, he lets in 7 goals in like the first period.... and like 5 or 6 of the goals i, a 5'5 125 lb 13 year old would have stopped with ease. he has got to play better, im geting so sick of himl.
Leafsfan_94
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Guest8815
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Posted - 12/23/2008 : 23:37:08
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| I love the attention payed only to the goalie and none to the defense that left him out to dry and the forwards that were non-existent. You really got to get some sense kid, Toskala is the only reason that Leafs games aren't like this night in and night out. He stands on his head game to game and puts up a good enough effort for the team to win, but face it Toronto isn't that great of a team. And also im just curious if you're looking for Toskala to be moved, who would you put in place of him? And if you say Pogge, that would be a terrible idea and his career would go downhill from there. So Toskala may not be Brodeur or Luongo, but hey he's a high caliber goalie and would start on pretty much any team other than maybe 5, so be grateful you have him and stop running your mouth about him and realize it's not his fault your teams losing. |
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avs1986
Top Prospect
5 Posts |
Posted - 12/24/2008 : 01:14:33
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| i wouldn't be shock if toskala is trade to la for someone like patrick osullivan. I can see karble going to dallas considering zubov is going for his second hip surgery this season, his pretty much done for the year. |
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Leafs Rock Planet
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 12/24/2008 : 05:39:49
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I do agree with you that Toskala should be traded. I think its time to hand over the task of starting goalie to Justin Pogge. Yes Justin Pogge. Now there is an absolutely completely logical explanation for this.
It was a couple years back at the trade deadline, the Montreal Canadians traded away David Abeischer and then Cristobal Huet. Everybody was wondering what the hell Les Habitant were going to do without a starting NHL goalie. Surely they couldnt bring up Jaroslav Halak who was close to being proven. They had to trade for a new starting goalie right? WRONG.
In a bold move, they ended up bringing that stellar young man that everybody heard of from the WJC. What one earth were they thinking bringing this guy in. He has only been proven at the junior level. But, the Habs did it anyways and threw him in there with no NHL experience.
Well look at him now, another one of the next great goalies in franchise history. The Habs just know what to do. Great Franchise even coming from a Leafs fan.
Now at the beggining of the season the whole mindframe for most people was that the Leafs were in a rebuliding mode and would tank this season. They've pretty much played the part so far this year with a few more wins then maybe anticipated.
Now Justin Pogge. If the Leafs want to tank this year and throw away the season they still have to lose a bit more then they are on pace for right now. By bringing up Pogge, it is a win-win situation. Either Pogge is brilliant in net and the Leafs have found the next best goalie in franchise history, or he is terrible and the leafs season is as bad as they hoped. There is also the possibility of him being average in which case they have a losing season. OH WELL.
This is the problem with the leafs right now. They dont know whether to win or lose. |
Edited by - Leafs Rock Planet on 12/24/2008 05:40:52 |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 12/24/2008 : 09:13:28
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Seriously, I hope Burke trades Toskala. I really do. Not only would that mean a solid goalie could go to a team that has a chance to win in the next decade but it would also show TO fans that Pogge is not that answer.
It would be just another one in a long list of solid goalies that left TO after getting beat up in the media and by the fans for too long. In my life time (save the 80's) the Leafs had always has solid goaltending. The keeper has never been their problem, yet they always seem to be the scapegoat.
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Leafsfan_94
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1070 Posts |
Posted - 12/24/2008 : 12:03:34
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they should trade toskala, he is not a solid goaltender. pogge, i think had a good debut, he made some big saves. and despite what other people think i believe he is ready. i dont think they should start him as the number one goalie yet. id keep that til after the deadline, to see if they get any new goaltenders to be added to the leafs roster. because i think pogge has been in the AHL long enough now to have seen enough ice time. so if leafs were to trade vesa, dump cujo, get a new solid starting netminder with pogge, getting a majority of games as another solid backup. i think there goaltending problem should be fixed. and i mean like was LRP said, if they trade toskala, and make pogge a starting goalie, why not? habs did it with price( which i mentioned also a long time ago). and pogge and price's years when they were younger like when pogge was a calgary hitmen and in the WJC and was price was with the bulldogs, WJC they're skill level seemed almost the same. so like LRP said, its a win win situation whether he is amazing, or he sucks like paris hilton. i just want to see this kid who i have spent time watching since he played when in was ten'nish in the WJC and i have believe h will be a good NHL goalie.
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Seriously, I hope Burke trades Toskala. I really do. Not only would that mean a solid goalie could go to a team that has a chance to win in the next decade but it would also show TO fans that Pogge is not that answer.
It would be just another one in a long list of solid goalies that left TO after getting beat up in the media and by the fans for too long. In my life time (save the 80's) the Leafs had always has solid goaltending. The keeper has never been their problem, yet they always seem to be the scapegoat.
Leafsfan_94
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DangleFest89
Rookie
122 Posts |
Posted - 12/24/2008 : 17:20:14
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| Why dump good goaltending sure he is always outta position but thats the type of goalie he is. Like it or Not Pogge is not ready at all you can say he played good in his debut this year but it was the Atlanta Thrasher come on. Leave Toskala in net hes feeling the heat from actually playing a full season finally, hes a solid goaltender just not everyone can be Belfour like in Toronto. |
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DangleFest89
Rookie
122 Posts |
Posted - 12/24/2008 : 17:21:16
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| P.S Beans raycroft is 6-1 not bad for a back up woooooooo |
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Leafsfan_94
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1070 Posts |
Posted - 12/24/2008 : 18:49:49
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dude, pogge's ready, toronto has been babying this kid since he started playing as a marlie. toskala falt out sucks, he is not consistent, i want him out, or if it doesnt kill his confidence make him back up, or at least split games with pogge
quote:
Originally posted by DangleFest89
Why dump good goaltending sure he is always outta position but thats the type of goalie he is. Like it or Not Pogge is not ready at all you can say he played good in his debut this year but it was the Atlanta Thrasher come on. Leave Toskala in net hes feeling the heat from actually playing a full season finally, hes a solid goaltender just not everyone can be Belfour like in Toronto.
Leafsfan_94
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Guest8815
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Posted - 12/24/2008 : 22:20:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Leafs Rock Planet
I do agree with you that Toskala should be traded. I think its time to hand over the task of starting goalie to Justin Pogge. Yes Justin Pogge. Now there is an absolutely completely logical explanation for this.
It was a couple years back at the trade deadline, the Montreal Canadians traded away David Abeischer and then Cristobal Huet. Everybody was wondering what the hell Les Habitant were going to do without a starting NHL goalie. Surely they couldnt bring up Jaroslav Halak who was close to being proven. They had to trade for a new starting goalie right? WRONG.
In a bold move, they ended up bringing that stellar young man that everybody heard of from the WJC. What one earth were they thinking bringing this guy in. He has only been proven at the junior level. But, the Habs did it anyways and threw him in there with no NHL experience.
Well look at him now, another one of the next great goalies in franchise history. The Habs just know what to do. Great Franchise even coming from a Leafs fan.
Now at the beggining of the season the whole mindframe for most people was that the Leafs were in a rebuliding mode and would tank this season. They've pretty much played the part so far this year with a few more wins then maybe anticipated.
Now Justin Pogge. If the Leafs want to tank this year and throw away the season they still have to lose a bit more then they are on pace for right now. By bringing up Pogge, it is a win-win situation. Either Pogge is brilliant in net and the Leafs have found the next best goalie in franchise history, or he is terrible and the leafs season is as bad as they hoped. There is also the possibility of him being average in which case they have a losing season. OH WELL.
This is the problem with the leafs right now. They dont know whether to win or lose.
I fail to see the win-win situation here, I see it as a waste of a season-ruin a career situation. Pogge comes in, and miraculously, plays great. The Leafs win some games and make the playoffs. 1st round exit. You can quote me on that.
Or he comes in doesn't play too well, Leafs stay there same old self and are near the bottom of the league. What will that do to that kids confidence? He will never be the same goalie again, he will be shaken up, and all the promise he had will disappear. He isn't ready, he could be on other teams but when talking Toronto there is a whole other aspect to playing there, and that's being hounded by the media and your fans even when you're playing well like Toskala. So if you think calling him up and giving him the starting job, you're sadly mistaken.
And you guys are comparing Price to Pogge, get real. Maybe blue and white glasses see the same talent in the two, but any hockey fan could see that Price is eons ahead of Pogge. Montreal made a gutsy move, and it payed off. Won't work out with Toronto aswell. So they have similar Minor League numbers, they aren't equal goalies. I have no facts to back this, but watching both play, Pogge is not as great as all the hype that's been put around him, and Price is a very talented goalie and already in the Top 10 of the NHL at his age, which is very impressive.
And than LF_94 I don't understand this, you want to trade Toskala, who is a very sol;id goalie and drop Cujo so you can have the new "solid" goalie, and Pogge. How does that solve the goal tending situation? You want to downgrade your starter, bring in a young kid with little experience and have them split games? I don't see the logic in this improving their goaltending, so could you explain this a little clearer, and hang on one second I'll make sure I wear my Pogge Jersey while I listen. |
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Leafsfan_94
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1070 Posts |
Posted - 12/24/2008 : 22:39:51
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Guest8815 :LF_94 I don't understand this, you want to trade Toskala, who is a very solid goalie and drop Cujo so you can have the new "solid" goalie, and Pogge
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toskala is not a solid goalie,HE SUCKS get that through your head, Joseph is washed up, and they have been babying pogge, for years, 2 so far going on 3. he is proven himself, to be a good goalie over the years with the marlies, even his stats so far this year, are pretty good considering the marlies are sucking. Toskala is not getting the job done, and neither is CuJo. i seriously think they should just go for it and trade toskala, make pogge the number one goalie. i can tell he doesnt like it in the AHL.if they trade toskala, possibly get a new solid starter, and make pogge backup, but playing a good amount of games then why not? they have nothing to lose so far, its only christmas. i know toskala can make some big saves, and ive noticed games where he makes highlight reel saves, and still manages to let in 5-7 goals. i know he doesnt have the best defence infront of him, but some of the goals he let in, a 4 year old could of stopped!
Leafsfan_94
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Guest0527
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Posted - 12/25/2008 : 10:11:35
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toronto should trade toskala and kaberle in a trade together and see what they get for it. they could get some decent drafts or players for those two together. and to set the record staright cujo is washed up he lets in 5 or 6 goals in a game
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Senatorsfan815
Top Prospect
2 Posts |
Posted - 12/25/2008 : 11:41:34
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I have to make a comment bout bostons 8-5 win over the leaves, this was an example of why toronto sometime in the future needs to make a move with the netminders.
1st period:Toskala gives up 2 goals on 5 shots in 4 min and 30 seconds!
2nd Period: (Toskala pulled) Now I have the greatest respect for Cujo. But he's not what he used to be for the leaves. He let in 4 goals on 10 shots in the second!
3rd period: Well there's not much more to add. Toskala came back in
and let in 2 more. What else is there to say?
Sure Toronto almost came back from a four goal deficeit but if they had better goaltending they might have had a chance at winning that game.
I must say I thought that Pogge did an great job gainst I believe... Atlanta. He made his start here in Penticton B.C. He came back to our rink here after winning the juniors and signed 1000's of autographs im sure.
That's my take on it. I realize Toronto is in a rebuilding stage but they need some help to keep pucks outta the back of the net.  |
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Guest8815
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Posted - 12/25/2008 : 12:29:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Leafsfan_94
Guest8815 :LF_94 I don't understand this, you want to trade Toskala, who is a very solid goalie and drop Cujo so you can have the new "solid" goalie, and Pogge
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toskala is not a solid goalie,HE SUCKS get that through your head, Joseph is washed up, and they have been babying pogge, for years, 2 so far going on 3. he is proven himself, to be a good goalie over the years with the marlies, even his stats so far this year, are pretty good considering the marlies are sucking. Toskala is not getting the job done, and neither is CuJo. i seriously think they should just go for it and trade toskala, make pogge the number one goalie. i can tell he doesnt like it in the AHL.if they trade toskala, possibly get a new solid starter, and make pogge backup, but playing a good amount of games then why not? they have nothing to lose so far, its only christmas. i know toskala can make some big saves, and ive noticed games where he makes highlight reel saves, and still manages to let in 5-7 goals. i know he doesnt have the best defence infront of him, but some of the goals he let in, a 4 year old could of stopped!
Leafsfan_94
Tell me a goalie that's more solid than Toskala and would take a deal of Toskala for them. |
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Leafsfan_94
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1070 Posts |
Posted - 12/25/2008 : 13:27:47
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what exactly are you trying to say?
Leafsfan_94
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DangleFest89
Rookie
122 Posts |
Posted - 12/25/2008 : 16:36:56
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| guest 8115 nailed it so call him up he plays great they lose first round he plays like crap hes loses his confidents becomes a john carey |
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Guest8815
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Posted - 12/26/2008 : 21:03:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Leafsfan_94
what exactly are you trying to say?
Leafsfan_94
You want a more solid goalie than Toskala. Okay tell me some. And on top of that tell me a goalie that is better than Toskala, that a team would trade straight across for Toskala. |
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Leafs Rock Planet
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2008 : 07:34:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Leafsfan_94
Guest8815 :LF_94 I don't understand this, you want to trade Toskala, who is a very solid goalie and drop Cujo so you can have the new "solid" goalie, and Pogge
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toskala is not a solid goalie,HE SUCKS get that through your head, Joseph is washed up, and they have been babying pogge, for years, 2 so far going on 3. he is proven himself, to be a good goalie over the years with the marlies, even his stats so far this year, are pretty good considering the marlies are sucking. Toskala is not getting the job done, and neither is CuJo. i seriously think they should just go for it and trade toskala, make pogge the number one goalie. i can tell he doesnt like it in the AHL.if they trade toskala, possibly get a new solid starter, and make pogge backup, but playing a good amount of games then why not? they have nothing to lose so far, its only christmas. i know toskala can make some big saves, and ive noticed games where he makes highlight reel saves, and still manages to let in 5-7 goals. i know he doesnt have the best defence infront of him, but some of the goals he let in, a 4 year old could of stopped!
Leafsfan_94
Okay now I dont agree with you one bit.
Toskala does not suck. In no way is Toskala a bad goalie. The season he is having is not a good one. His rebound control has not been great and hes let in some questionable goals. Remember the team in front of him specifically the defence in front of him is by no means good. Possibly the worst in the NHL beside the teams like LA, PHX, and ATL.
And by no means has Pogge been proven in the AHL. There is nothing you can say about that. The Marlies made it to the conference finals last year and im pretty sure it was Clemmensen that backstoped them all the way there. No way is he proven. I just like the idea of throwing him in because the Leafs have NOTHING TO LOSE. Pogge comes up and does great then theres a positive. If he comes up and does crap then the Leafs suck and let the rebuliding begin.
Now 8815 you are saying that it will just ruin him as a goalie to be on such a bad team. Steve Mason is playing with Columbus right now who are maybe a worse team the Toronto. Does that mean you think it will ruin his promising career?
Oh and LF94 I failed to mention in my first post that you are crazy for saying Andrew Raycroft is a better goalie then Toskala. Oh but theres obviously no facts to back it up because there never is with you. Besides the measly reasoning that Raycroft had more wins.
Now the idea of trading Toskala is intriguing. Him in a package could get a 1st round pick in my opinion. Now the question is where do you move him to and who will take him. |
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Guest2741
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Posted - 12/27/2008 : 09:12:28
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| If anything, Toskaka is keeping Toronto alive in this league. Toskala is not Toronto's problem, its the team around him. Think about it, Why did Toskala do better in San Jose? because he had an offense in front of him. Toronto regulary outshoots their opponents but none of the team knows how to put the puck in the net. Anybody can fire a puck on net, but a good player scores now in again. Not many of the shots Toronto takes go in. If I was Brian Burke I wouldn't even think about trading Toskala. I'd look at moving guys like Jeff Finger or Alexei Ponikarovsky, possibly Antropov or one of the others guys that have been on Toronto for a few years now and have shown nothing. |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2008 : 09:31:38
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top 10 in the league?????? whoa whoa whoa ,, has the potential to be top 10 maybe but putting up his numbers playing the amount of bad games he plays come on there are at least 15 maybe even 20 goalies ahead of Vesa i mean im not saying he is a backup he is a starting calibre goalie in the nhl but to put him anywhere near the top tier??? no way jose!! wow i mean nabokov luongo lundquvist brodeur kipper ellis backstrom thomas huet osgood legace miller all the guys there isn;t even an argument to be made they are all better than toskala and there are more......
Pasty |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2008 : 15:12:04
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All I can say is that if you put guys like Osgood, Legace, and Ellis ahead of Toskala, it is done purely on stats.
The sick thing about this whole thread is that if the TO fans that want to run Toskala out of town and bring in Pogge got their wish, they would also get their wish in drafting Tavares. The Leafs are 5-8 fewerwins without Toskala and 10-12 fewer wins with Pogge as the starter.
The even sicker thing about this is that these same guys calling for Toskala's head today would be calling for Pogge's head inside of one season.
For those good Leaf fans out there, forgive me. This is not intended towards you. For those other Leaf fans, give you head a shake. |
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Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro
640 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2008 : 15:35:19
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| There is only one reason to trade Toskala, that is for picks, the Leafs do not have a 2nd and 3rd round pick in 2009 or 2010. Possibly get a young future player with the pick. Pogge is not quite ready and has a long way to go to be a star goalie. That being said, I don't know if bringing Pogge up for the rest of the season is such a bad idea, let him get in and build with the team, the Leafs really have not much to lose, and they will certainly see if Pogge is like Price or Fluery or will he be more of a Marc Denis. |
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2008 : 15:55:14
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| someone on here was asking why a lot of Leafs fans think it's necessary to blame a goalie. You can't blame a goalie unless if they are playing really bad and for the last 3 years that is the case Toskala should be blamed he makes way too many mistakes.. Cujo should be the number 1 goalie right now, Toskala is not number 1 material he's a decent back up, but he's not good enough to play 20 games in a season let alone 66 games. He is the weakest goalie in the league. I say they trade him off to Tampa Bay for Mike Smith. Mike Smith is an excellent goalie, I'd like to see him play for Toronto. When he played for Dallas he proved to be better than Marty Turco. And Mike Smith is playing awesome this year he just has a crappy team in front of him but at least he would help Toronto better than Toskala and that's for sure. Toronto has good defence in Schenn and Van Ryn. Kaberle sucks defenssively but he is good offenssively. Kubina should be traded we don't need him his salary is way too high and he's not worth it. But if Toronto wants to become a better team they need to get rid of Toskala for he is just a bad risk. |
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2008 : 15:57:30
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| there is a reason why Pogge has only played 1 game, he's not good enough for the NHL, and he has a bad attitude like Emery. We don't need that on Toronto |
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2008 : 16:04:37
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| I don't want any rookie goalie in Toronto to be a Price or Fleury, They suck. The only thing they have going for them is they have a good team in front of them. Sabourin is Pittsburgh's best goalie by far... In a rookie goalie for Toronto I would like to see more like a Felix The Cat Potvin style goalie. That's what Toronto needs a goalie with Potvin's skills. Potvin is arguably the best goalie Toronto has had in at least 40 years |
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Guest2794
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Posted - 12/28/2008 : 18:58:57
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quote:
Originally posted by hanley6
someone on here was asking why a lot of Leafs fans think it's necessary to blame a goalie. You can't blame a goalie unless if they are playing really bad and for the last 3 years that is the case Toskala should be blamed he makes way too many mistakes.. Cujo should be the number 1 goalie right now, Toskala is not number 1 material he's a decent back up, but he's not good enough to play 20 games in a season let alone 66 games. He is the weakest goalie in the league. I say they trade him off to Tampa Bay for Mike Smith. Mike Smith is an excellent goalie, I'd like to see him play for Toronto. When he played for Dallas he proved to be better than Marty Turco. And Mike Smith is playing awesome this year he just has a crappy team in front of him but at least he would help Toronto better than Toskala and that's for sure. Toronto has good defence in Schenn and Van Ryn. Kaberle sucks defenssively but he is good offenssively. Kubina should be traded we don't need him his salary is way too high and he's not worth it. But if Toronto wants to become a better team they need to get rid of Toskala for he is just a bad risk.
Are you drunk? I really hope your joking and not this stupid. Why you wouldn't want Pogge to turn out like Price or Fleury is ridiculous. Saying Sabourin is better..umm did you never watch a game when Pittsburgh wasn't a star team and Fleury was peppered with shot after shot and pulled off amazing saves? Remember Fleury didnt always have a team in front of him, and from what I can remeber he had the worst defense in the NHL in front of him not so long ago and still stood is ground.
Making Cujo the starter. Maybe 10 years ago. Joseph hasn't won a game yet this year! He looks sloppy and i hate to say it but his age is starting to show. Trust me man he is good but Toskala is better as of now. Joseph in his prime was better but not now. Justin Pogge's attitude isn't that bad, in fact if you look on a Scouting report they say thats one of his positive traits.
hanley I have seen some pretty dumb comments, but yours might just be the most obscene and stupid I have ever seen. Please lay off the crack pipe |
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leafsfan_101
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1530 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2008 : 19:44:56
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I honestly think Leafs fans are the dumbest fans in the NHL! I honestly do, because apart from myself and a few others there doesn't seem to be a thorugh knowledge of hockey, especially to do with the Leafs.
Toskala, although occasionally giving up the bad goal, is among the best positionally sound goalies, and he may have the best leg push in all of hockey! His agility is hig, his reflexes are good and he can ake the save then called upon. Besides a few weak ones (which LF_94 COULDN'T save), Toskala is among the best goalies in the league (well top 10 at least). I can guarentee you, 100%, that if Toskala was 6'2 or 6'4 instead of being 5'10 he would be the best goalie in the NHL. No question, he is absolutley phenominal positionally and is rock solid with his angles. If he covered a bit more net (he play like a large goalie often), he would be considered the best goalie.
On to the topic at hand, which teams would you trade Toskala to and for what? What would you get in return? Looking down some rosters, I can see only about 5-7 teams willing to take him, and many would not be able to with their current cap situation. Debate with me on this on, who would take him and for what? You will see it's not as black and white as you think.
BTW, please, Leafs fans, don't embarass me. Being in 25th place is bad enough. You boneheads make it worse. |
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Leafs Rock Planet
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 12/28/2008 : 20:22:18
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LF_101
I agree with you on every aspect of Toskala information that you threw out except for the fact that he would be the leagues best goalie with more size. He wouldnt be the leagues best goalie. Right now he is not a top 10 goalie. His fundamentals I would agree are among the best in the league and believe me the Leafs would be in the bottom of the league without him. But do you really think a 31 year old goalie who becomes a UFA after next season is the key to the rebuilding of a franchise though? I love Toskala, believe me. The first game he ever played with the leafs one of the first things that came out of my mouth was, "Wow, a Leafs goalie that can actually stop pucks." I dont think he is the goalie of the future for the Leafs and I dont want to see him being mis-treated by the Leafs. They cant have him walk for nothing as a UFA because I am sure the Leafs wouldnt be first on his list of teams to sign with. Why sign him to a contract extension now? That leaves you with only one option. Trading him. It doesnt have to be this season but maybe next year at the deadline and trade him to a team like LA maybe pushing for a last playoff position.
The bottom line is that Toskala is not the goalie that the Leafs will win a cup with but I love the guy as a goalie. |
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Topic |
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TRADE TOSKALA 
