| Author |
 Topic  |
|
fat_elvis_rocked
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
 Posted - 01/30/2009 : 09:21:19
|
They have donkeys in Sweden??? If you had said reindeer-hangers, I could see it, but donkeys?? 
This thread does seem to be going in circles with nothing factual to back anything up, but really, if you don't think Sundin is going to deservedly be a HOF inductee, you are really letting your emotions get in the way of your intelligence.
He has the numbers, accomplishments, and support of those who matter in the hockey world to be there someday. I would take a Sundin over a Claude Lemieux anyday, even though there is no arguing Claude's playoff heroics?. It takes a season of play to make the playoffs, and that's where Sundin is the better choice.
Yes, I know, he never won a cup, but to ignore the fact that he did indeed lead the Leafs to the playoffs on more than one season, again, speaks more to one's emotions than intelligence.
Donkey balls??? ....that kills me  |
 |
|
|
Thrasher
Rookie
Canada
155 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2009 : 13:06:57
|
As it stands, Vancouver is tied for 7th with Minnesota, Edmonton, Dallas, Columbus. LOG JAM !! And over the last ten games Vancouver has gone one win, 5 losses, and four OT losses. So for all the math wizzes out there, 6 points out of 20. Before i finally give in and admit defeat that the aquisition of Sundin was a mistake, we must consider the circumstances. Sundin has played 8 of those games, still coming back from a long break from hockey. Loungo has been injured for the last while as well. Considering both Cory Schnieder and Curtis Sanford have losing records while Luongo is the only Canuck to have more wins than losses. Stretching to prove a point, maybe, but Luongo is the heart and soul of the Canucks, and there is no argument that he is not. Sundin has 3 points in 8 games, no where near his career numbers and point a game average. I still do believe that he will bounce back and begin to play harder and get his game back, but hopefully it doesn't take too much longer. Still plenty of hockey to be played, 32 or 33 games i believe for them. So 5 teams are tied for 7th, two making it into the playoffs. Edmonton has Mac T at the helm, so no threat there(haha sorry all the Mac T fans, i had too). Columbus is a young team, and i dont know if them or Mason can keep up this pace down the stretch. Without Gaborik, im surprised how good Minnesota is doing, maybe they might fall down the ranks as well. I can also see Turco letting the Stars down.
Really, anything could happen down the last stretch. If at the trade deadline, Sundin has not picked up his play, i will admit defeat and agree that signing Sundin was a mistake for the Canucks. However, that does not mean i will admit he is not a great player, and worthy of the HOF. No argument he will be there, love him or hate him, he will be there. And this argument comparing Claude and Sundin is the dumbest thing i have ever heard. Just like the Crosby Ovechkin debate, how can you compare players that play different. Compare playmakers to playmakers, scorers to scorers, and fighters to fighters. Saying that because Ovechkin scores more times than Crosby does, doesn't make him more valuble. When you think about it, crosby has more points, therefore more goals for the penguins.
But i digress. Im really hoping Sundin does pick it up, because i like the guy, but more importantly making me feel smart for taking his side and sticking up for him. I truly believe he will, but i cannot read the future and i will not pretend too.
GO SUNDIN |
|
|
|
Guest9655
( )
|
Posted - 01/30/2009 : 15:03:43
|
Trasher - you're ok man.
I said it before, and I'll say it again... i tend to exaggerate just to get leaf fans going...especially ones like matt roberts or hanley...!!
Please remember my two points:
Sundin is over-rated and leaf fans/media over-rated him.
And if some of these guys did not get my points, i tried using C.Lemieux just as an example... and what happened?? everyone took that comparison so literally!!! it's unbelieveable!
Boy, leaf fans are in worse condition than some may think.
Let's wait and see if Sundin can do something with Canucks... I'll bet he won't, based on what he did with leafs... 1 point a game but no big prize when it counts. |
|
|
|
andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2009 : 22:18:19
|
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Let me see . . . how to rate Sundin . . . ok, I'll just make my list of the all-time greatest Euros and stop when I get to him:
1. Jagr
2. Forsberg
3. Kurri
4. Stastny
5. P. Bure
6. Mikita
7. Hasek
8. Sundin
I got him 8th, but who knows who I missed . . . Salming would be right after him.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Slozo - Putting aside goalies for a second (and also putting aside current guys like Ovechkin), you left out a few key names, the most notable being Lidstrom. Also, we have to pay our respect to Kharlamov on a list like this. There are other guys too I certainly wonder about (see my list on the Best Euro thread), but these two guys to me are clearly ahead of Sundin on a best ever list.
Animated Guest and those bickering with him - trash talking can be fun, but I'm not very good at it, so I'll stick to things that I'm better at. And one is simply seeking the truth, which often by the way lies in the middle. So if you are going to call Sundin "one of the best Europeans ever" you should understand what that means. In other words, understand that it MAY mean top 20, but it PROBABLY should not mean top ten.
I keep coming back to the list by the way because whether to classify him as a "great" player vs a "very good" or a "good" one is up to one's own definitions/standards when using those words. So rather than getting too bogged down with those words, just think about where he ranks overall on that list. And I think it's fair to say, especially if goalies are part of it, that it would be a pretty big stretch to put him in the top ten.
The HOF question too depends on one's own standards (I prefer a little stricter one that would make Sundin a slightly better than borderline candidate, but not a shoe-in). The question also should be looked at in relative terms. Who else is out there that perhaps should be in ahead of him? Of retired guys now, two that immediately come to mind for me are Oates and Lindros (some will disagree I'm sure). |
Edited by - andyhack on 01/30/2009 22:19:39 |
|
|
|
Thrasher
Rookie
Canada
155 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2009 : 22:59:03
|
quote:
Originally posted by andyhack
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Let me see . . . how to rate Sundin . . . ok, I'll just make my list of the all-time greatest Euros and stop when I get to him:
1. Jagr
2. Forsberg
3. Kurri
4. Stastny
5. P. Bure
6. Mikita
7. Hasek
8. Sundin
I got him 8th, but who knows who I missed . . . Salming would be right after him.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Slozo - Putting aside goalies for a second (and also putting aside current guys like Ovechkin), you left out a few key names, the most notable being Lidstrom. Also, we have to pay our respect to Kharlamov on a list like this. There are other guys too I certainly wonder about (see my list on the Best Euro thread), but these two guys to me are clearly ahead of Sundin on a best ever list.
Animated Guest and those bickering with him - trash talking can be fun, but I'm not very good at it, so I'll stick to things that I'm better at. And one is simply seeking the truth, which often by the way lies in the middle. So if you are going to call Sundin "one of the best Europeans ever" you should understand what that means. In other words, understand that it MAY mean top 20, but it PROBABLY should not mean top ten.
I keep coming back to the list by the way because whether to classify him as a "great" player vs a "very good" or a "good" one is up to one's own definitions/standards when using those words. So rather than getting too bogged down with those words, just think about where he ranks overall on that list. And I think it's fair to say, especially if goalies are part of it, that it would be a pretty big stretch to put him in the top ten.
The HOF question too depends on one's own standards (I prefer a little stricter one that would make Sundin a slightly better than borderline candidate, but not a shoe-in). The question also should be looked at in relative terms. Who else is out there that perhaps should be in ahead of him? Of retired guys now, two that immediately come to mind for me are Oates and Lindros (some will disagree I'm sure).
I have a couple disagreements with your comment. First and foremost, when you say putting current players aside, dont follow up with a current player. Lidstrom is indeed still in the league, in fact captain of Detroit.
And in the argument of being a great player, good player or average player, remember that Sundin is the all time points leader of an original six team. I dont know exactly how many can make that claim.(Actually i do. 6 people in the world). Again, whether you think he should or not, he WILL be in the HOF. Even if the voting got stricter, there is no doubt he would make it. I also see that your a Bruins fan, perhaps the rivalry has brought this way of thinking on.
Last argument i have with your post was Lindros. Ummmm exuse me? OVER SUNDIN? haha i think not. I do actually think Lindros may make it, he was a good player and an impact player when healthy. Unfortuantly concussions held his career back from possibly being one of the better players ever. Lindros had troubles with team managment as well, i don't know if that will effect his induction or not.
Now, to my guest nemisis who i have been dueling with for a while, your turn hahaha. You may believe he was overrated, and i can even live with that. But keep in mind, he was the hero of Toronto for how many years. Think of how all the stars are treated on different teams, like Luongo on Vancouver, given the captain role. Especially in Toronto, where they had little other bright spots other than maybe Sundin, Joseph, and the antics of Domi and Tucker. yes Sundin was thrust into the lime light, but deservingly so. Leafs fans, face the facts. Without Sundin, toronto is a rudderless ship. (Much like Vancouver without Luongo, or even Atlanta would be without Kovalchuk). They are rebuilding after their last ray of light left the city. Hopefully Burke can put the team back together, because i have noticed all the Leaf haters and i think it would be amusing if the Leaf fans could actually say something back. But i do notice how none of the Leafs fans have turned their back on Sundin. Yes he left their team, yes he plays for another Canadian team, but still no hate. Its all love for this guy, because he was such a good player and a good person for the city of toronto.
St Pierre will wreck BJ Penn |
|
|
|
andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 01/30/2009 : 23:20:30
|
You're right of course about Lidstrom - I should have clarified that what I meant was putting aside younger active players (I was trying to do Mats a favour, as if we include the younger guys he goes down a couple more notches probably).
With that clarification, can we agree that Lidstrom should be higher on the list?
I am a Bruins fan, yes. But I'm also from Toronto and have nothing against the Leafs. As a kid I was actually a big Leafs fan. I have nothing against Sundin whatsover. I find the Guest funny, and agree with him on some things (not everything). Mainly, just replying to someone's comment that Sundin is one of, if not the, best European players ever. That comment needed clarification, thats all.
Sundin over Lindros for the HOF? Interesting question - not the no-brainer you think it is. I'll let you guys argue about that one for now as I gotta run. |
|
|
|
Guest5718
( )
|
Posted - 01/31/2009 : 02:44:57
|
| My favorite line was Vancouver's GM, Gillis in a press conference saying, " Mats will let us know when he's ready to play" This was said a week or so after they signed him. Are they still waiting for him to Let them know? Because I don't know how much longer I can wait until he starts playing. So embarassing to the organization. They acted like he was the 2nd coming or something. No player should ever be bigger than the team. I guess that's what you get for hiring an out of shape old guy. They would be better off with Gary Roberts, that guy trains hard every day of his life. I feel for the rest of the Canucks, every single player on that team deserves more money than Sundin. I think he should go back to making Poker commercials. |
|
|
|
n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2009 : 04:11:32
|
Andyhack - your right, I missed Kharlamov, that's one I wouldn't have thought of. And you quite rightly pointed out I missed the goalies, of which I can think of Tretiak and Hasek right off the top ahead of Sundin.
Maybe it's just me (I'm sure it is, lol) but I would rate Lidstrom lower than Sundin. I would rate Datsyuk and Federov (crap, forgot him too!) ahead . . . and, of course, I do think Ovechkin for sure and quite possibly Malkin will also finish ahead, but their careers are a bit too short yet for inclusion.
All right, I admit I made the list in a rush. I'll concede your point - Sundin is top twenty, not top ten.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
|
|
|
Thrasher
Rookie
Canada
155 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2009 : 07:02:39
|
quote:
Originally posted by andyhack
You're right of course about Lidstrom - I should have clarified that what I meant was putting aside younger active players (I was trying to do Mats a favour, as if we include the younger guys he goes down a couple more notches probably).
With that clarification, can we agree that Lidstrom should be higher on the list?
I am a Bruins fan, yes. But I'm also from Toronto and have nothing against the Leafs. As a kid I was actually a big Leafs fan. I have nothing against Sundin whatsover. I find the Guest funny, and agree with him on some things (not everything). Mainly, just replying to someone's comment that Sundin is one of, if not the, best European players ever. That comment needed clarification, thats all.
Sundin over Lindros for the HOF? Interesting question - not the no-brainer you think it is. I'll let you guys argue about that one for now as I gotta run.
Alright i see your point of including Lidstrom, and yes i do agree he should be on the top twenty list, probably top two or three defencemen from over seas. I dont know if he belongs in front of Sundin, im sure him winning the cup numerous times will sway some of these people into believing it.
Sundin stats wise is one of the greatest, his leadership was unmatched by any other European player.(I mean length of being a captain). Not the best ever, that would be too far, but i still believe he is one of the better european players to ever lace the skates up.
Wow, looking back at my comments, i may have over stated my opinion of Sundin over Lindros. Both had good careers, and both played great hockey. Perhaps your right, it might be a good battle, but im sure they will both get in. Sundin being a star in the league for so many consistent years, and Lindros being a dominant player for the few years he played. The main reason why i stated Sundin over Lindros so easily was Lindros's injurys crippled his career. Towards the end of his career, the guy was a liability on the ice. (Injurys, not play wise). this might be a good new poll, but with all the Sundin haters out here, i think we all know how it might turn out. |
|
|
|
Guest9655
( )
|
Posted - 01/31/2009 : 07:24:05
|
ok.... so let me summarize a little on this comedy.
First of all everyone said i was crazy, and everyone said Sundin will come around.
Here are some quotes:
From Leigh:
Each game he has improved, you can see his legs get more under him, and his confidence and timing is getting better. In half a dozen more games he'll be playing much better and will make a big impact for the team. He adds greatly to the team depth and will bring some on-ice leadership once he settles in.
HAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!
From Matt Roberts:
Sundin has always been considered to be a strong leader and a great guy in the room. The mere fact that he didnt want a team to dump 2 or 3 players to fit him in shows you just how much he cares about team chemistry.
HAAAAA!!!! He's leading the team to nowhere, and has ruined any chemistry there ever was.
Also from Matt Roberts:
his entire career people were saying "Can you imagine how much better this guy would be if had wingers to play with?"
HAAAAAAA!!!! The only "people" saying that were Toronto "people". Look at Sundin now, he has decent wingers.... but unfortunately, does not know how to use them!!!!!!!
Also from Matt Roberts:
Ok dude, you've convinced me. Sundin sucks dirty donkey balls and should never have been allowed to play in the NHL to begin with. I'd rather have Jonas Hoglund as my captain than Mats Sundin
HAAAAAAAA!!!! Typical Leaf-Fan Frustrations. You guys had so much hope for Sundin raising the cup in the ACC.... Maybe next year?
From Guest 5718:
My favorite line was Vancouver's GM, Gillis in a press conference saying, " Mats will let us know when he's ready to play" This was said a week or so after they signed him. Are they still waiting for him to Let them know? Because I don't know how much longer I can wait until he starts playing. So embarassing to the organization. They acted like he was the 2nd coming or something. No player should ever be bigger than the team. I guess that's what you get for hiring an out of shape old guy. They would be better off with Gary Roberts, that guy trains hard every day of his life. I feel for the rest of the Canucks, every single player on that team deserves more money than Sundin. I think he should go back to making Poker commercials.
HAAAAAAAAAAA !!!! Now you're talking man!!!!
What a comedy! |
|
|
|
fat_elvis_rocked
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
902 Posts |
Posted - 01/31/2009 : 23:29:14
|
Quick somebody get 9655 a straw......it's gotta be tough to breathe where he's got his head stuck!!!
|
|
|
|
hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2009 : 20:28:44
|
| for those of you that thought Sundin was a thing of the past or that he wont pick it up this year well tonight against Chicago is his 11th game this year, at the moment they are in the 2nd period and he has a goal and two assists 3 power play points and obviously cause it's in the 2nd period the games not over yet bu so far in the last 2 games he has 5 points and in his 11 games he has 8 points... Sundin is back. He's playing well and there is no doubting that.. He is not hurting Vancouver he's only going to make them better, he just had a slow start that is all |
Edited by - hanley6 on 02/07/2009 20:29:21 |
|
|
|
rross
Top Prospect
Canada
58 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2009 : 05:44:43
|
quote:
Originally posted by Guest9655
ok.... so let me summarize a little on this comedy.
First of all everyone said i was crazy, and everyone said Sundin will come around.
Here are some quotes:
From Leigh:
Each game he has improved, you can see his legs get more under him, and his confidence and timing is getting better. In half a dozen more games he'll be playing much better and will make a big impact for the team. He adds greatly to the team depth and will bring some on-ice leadership once he settles in.
HAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!
From Matt Roberts:
Sundin has always been considered to be a strong leader and a great guy in the room. The mere fact that he didnt want a team to dump 2 or 3 players to fit him in shows you just how much he cares about team chemistry.
HAAAAA!!!! He's leading the team to nowhere, and has ruined any chemistry there ever was.
Also from Matt Roberts:
his entire career people were saying "Can you imagine how much better this guy would be if had wingers to play with?"
HAAAAAAA!!!! The only "people" saying that were Toronto "people". Look at Sundin now, he has decent wingers.... but unfortunately, does not know how to use them!!!!!!!
Also from Matt Roberts:
Ok dude, you've convinced me. Sundin sucks dirty donkey balls and should never have been allowed to play in the NHL to begin with. I'd rather have Jonas Hoglund as my captain than Mats Sundin
HAAAAAAAA!!!! Typical Leaf-Fan Frustrations. You guys had so much hope for Sundin raising the cup in the ACC.... Maybe next year?
From Guest 5718:
My favorite line was Vancouver's GM, Gillis in a press conference saying, " Mats will let us know when he's ready to play" This was said a week or so after they signed him. Are they still waiting for him to Let them know? Because I don't know how much longer I can wait until he starts playing. So embarassing to the organization. They acted like he was the 2nd coming or something. No player should ever be bigger than the team. I guess that's what you get for hiring an out of shape old guy. They would be better off with Gary Roberts, that guy trains hard every day of his life. I feel for the rest of the Canucks, every single player on that team deserves more money than Sundin. I think he should go back to making Poker commercials.
HAAAAAAAAAAA !!!! Now you're talking man!!!!
What a comedy!
As per Leigh's, his play has improved each game and last nights convincing win against Chicago proves it.
From Matt Roberts as per chemistry, Kesler, Demitra, Sundin has found chemistry.
Looks like my prediction has come true regarding the Canucks last 4 game home stand(5 out of a pssoible 8 pionts is not bad but an improvement over what could have been) and all the Sundin trashers have miraculously disappeared.
HaHAHAHAHA(to quote guest 9655)
Go Habs Go!! |
|
|
|
Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro
640 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2009 : 06:14:44
|
quote:
Originally posted by Guest9655
ok.... so let me summarize a little on this comedy.
First of all everyone said i was crazy, and everyone said Sundin will come around.
Here are some quotes:
From Leigh:
Each game he has improved, you can see his legs get more under him, and his confidence and timing is getting better. In half a dozen more games he'll be playing much better and will make a big impact for the team. He adds greatly to the team depth and will bring some on-ice leadership once he settles in.
HAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!
From Matt Roberts:
Sundin has always been considered to be a strong leader and a great guy in the room. The mere fact that he didnt want a team to dump 2 or 3 players to fit him in shows you just how much he cares about team chemistry.
HAAAAA!!!! He's leading the team to nowhere, and has ruined any chemistry there ever was.
Also from Matt Roberts:
his entire career people were saying "Can you imagine how much better this guy would be if had wingers to play with?"
HAAAAAAA!!!! The only "people" saying that were Toronto "people". Look at Sundin now, he has decent wingers.... but unfortunately, does not know how to use them!!!!!!!
Also from Matt Roberts:
Ok dude, you've convinced me. Sundin sucks dirty donkey balls and should never have been allowed to play in the NHL to begin with. I'd rather have Jonas Hoglund as my captain than Mats Sundin
HAAAAAAAA!!!! Typical Leaf-Fan Frustrations. You guys had so much hope for Sundin raising the cup in the ACC.... Maybe next year?
From Guest 5718:
My favorite line was Vancouver's GM, Gillis in a press conference saying, " Mats will let us know when he's ready to play" This was said a week or so after they signed him. Are they still waiting for him to Let them know? Because I don't know how much longer I can wait until he starts playing. So embarassing to the organization. They acted like he was the 2nd coming or something. No player should ever be bigger than the team. I guess that's what you get for hiring an out of shape old guy. They would be better off with Gary Roberts, that guy trains hard every day of his life. I feel for the rest of the Canucks, every single player on that team deserves more money than Sundin. I think he should go back to making Poker commercials.
HAAAAAAAAAAA !!!! Now you're talking man!!!!
What a comedy!
The only comedy is guest 9655. Its too bad all the brilliant Sundin bashers were only around for the first games. I have said all along that Sundin is a career 1ppg player, there is no reason to expect less. As was said by Leigh, wait till he gets his legs and game sense back, give him a half dozen games. Looks like its starting to come together and what has it been since Leighs post, oh about a half dozen games. 11 games, 8 points and he is finding his spot within the team.
HAAAAHAAAAA and DonkeyBalls to you guest 9655
Now if Bobby Loo can get his A game back.
Donkey Balls, way to go Matt Roberts, classic !
|
|
|
|
Guest7735
( )
|
Posted - 02/09/2009 : 10:43:05
|
I can't beleive this thread is still going lol.
Mr.Guest seems to think he has a point in the Win column. If you ask me, all the quotes from me that he supplied are correct...
I don't want to go over everything he said in detail, it would take wayyy to long, but I just wanted to add that there is a patent pending for Donkey Balls, so don't try to steal it 
Mr.Guest, you just like 'getting me going' eh? Well, I do enjoy a healthy debate involving my beloved maple leafs and their former captain Mr.Sundin, but I also like getting my opposition 'going'. It just makes things more interesting. I still think Sundin will prevail in this debate and help Vancouver on their quest to qualify for the Stanley Cup playoffs. I also STILL disagree with your opinion that Sundin was all Leaf hype (media/fans) and that he was actually considered to be world class LEAGUE WIDE. You dirty Scrotum Tickler.  |
|
|
|
Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2009 : 10:43:27
|
I can't beleive this thread is still going lol.
Mr.Guest seems to think he has a point in the Win column. If you ask me, all the quotes from me that he supplied are correct...
I don't want to go over everything he said in detail, it would take wayyy to long, but I just wanted to add that there is a patent pending for Donkey Balls, so don't try to steal it
Mr.Guest, you just like 'getting me going' eh? Well, I do enjoy a healthy debate involving my beloved maple leafs and their former captain Mr.Sundin, but I also like getting my opposition 'going'. It just makes things more interesting. I still think Sundin will prevail in this debate and help Vancouver on their quest to qualify for the Stanley Cup playoffs. I also STILL disagree with your opinion that Sundin was all Leaf hype (media/fans) and that he was actually considered to be world class LEAGUE WIDE. You dirty Scrotum Tickler.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
|
|
|
Guest7752
( )
|
Posted - 02/09/2009 : 11:00:40
|
quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
I don't want to go over everything he said in detail, it would take wayyy to long, but I just wanted to add that there is a patent pending for Donkey Balls, so don't try to steal it
You dirty Scrotum Tickler.
I said it before... typical "Leaf" responses when things get tough... they resort to personal attacks.... BIG BABIES!!!!!
What's next... you're gonna send BIG MR. MAY after me??
When did i personally attack you!!!
Wait.. maybe YOU are sundin???
Or Maybe he's your "best friend"???
|
|
|
|
Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2009 : 08:56:39
|
dude im just joking. I guess you can't tell because Its typed.... but seriously, im just kidding around with you. Its all very light hearted.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
|
|
|
hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2009 : 13:46:49
|
quote:
Originally posted by ThorntonisTHEMAN
I think you are missing our point! Sundin is not one of the greatest players ever. But he is a very good player! LIke you said, he played on some crap Leaf teams but HE LED THEM INTO THE PLAYOFFS YEAR AFTER YEAR. He is now 38 and hasn't played in the NHL for 9 months and you expect him to pick up Vancouver and get them to win his first 7 games? He's an old man at the end of his career.
And don't even bother accusing me of being a leaf's fan. I hate the Leaf's with a passion. I never liked Sundin and I dislike him even more cuz he is joining the "play half a season" club. However, he is a very good hockey player and I like to give credit where credit is due.
"I'm not dumb enough to be a goalie."
Brett Hull.
I respect that.. Sundin is a great player no doubt not the best but very key to whatever team he plays for and he has been picking it up huge lately. No player that sits out half a season should be expected to perform with prime material. I have a good feeling he will help get Vancouver in to the playoffs and help them go deep into the playoffs. Hell Vancouver could even pull it off and maybe win the Cup.. And I hope they do Sundin deserves it |
|
|
|
andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2009 : 16:22:31
|
One of the Honorable Guest's main points is simply that Sundin is overrated. I suppose the answer depends on where he is rated. To me, if we are calling him "one of the best Europeans ever" and a "shoe-in for the HOF", the Guest raises a question worth talking about.
I mean, though I might ultimately take Matts, I would think long and hard if presented with a choice between taking Saku Koivu or Matts Sundin for my team, and yet I don't see anyone saying Koivu is one of the best Europeans ever and a shoe-in for the Hall. Instead, I think I saw him listed on the most overrated player list by somebody.
Why do people rate Matts so much higher than Saku? The answer is obviously stats. Matt's numbers are indeed impressive. But would he really be that much more valuable to your team than Saku? Even with all of the goals and assists, has he really produced all that much more to his team's efforts to win than Saku has to his teams?
The Honorable Guest likes trash talking, yes, but mixed up in the slime, gook and muck in his trash, may very well be a valid point. |
|
|
|
Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro
640 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2009 : 16:45:13
|
| I have always wondered what Sundins stats would have been if he was never traded to the leafs and remained with Nordique through the time they became the Avalanche and won the Stanley Cup. He would have been paired with Sakic and Forsberg. After being a career 1.0 ppg player (i think) with an average team (with the exception of a few good years). What could he have done on a team that excelled with superstars like Sakic and Forsberg. Would it be safe to say maybe 150 more goals and 400 more points. Just a guess and that would give him roughly 1700 career points. That is Joe Sakic, Steve Yzerman territory. Now don't jump on me for mentioning Sundin in the same post as Sakic and Yzerman, I am just theorizing what could have been. |
|
|
|
Guest7752
( )
|
Posted - 02/11/2009 : 06:21:11
|
quote:
Originally posted by andyhack
One of the Honorable Guest's main points is simply that Sundin is overrated. I suppose the answer depends on where he is rated. To me, if we are calling him "one of the best Europeans ever" and a "shoe-in for the HOF", the Guest raises a question worth talking about.
I mean, though I might ultimately take Matts, I would think long and hard if presented with a choice between taking Saku Koivu or Matts Sundin for my team, and yet I don't see anyone saying Koivu is one of the best Europeans ever and a shoe-in for the Hall. Instead, I think I saw him listed on the most overrated player list by somebody.
Why do people rate Matts so much higher than Saku? The answer is obviously stats. Matt's numbers are indeed impressive. But would he really be that much more valuable to your team than Saku? Even with all of the goals and assists, has he really produced all that much more to his team's efforts to win than Saku has to his teams?
The Honorable Guest likes trash talking, yes, but mixed up in the slime, gook and muck in his trash, may very well be a valid point.
yes. It obviously all depends on "where" he is rated. SO, having said that - he WILL go to the HOF, 'cause Toronto is the center of the universe. AND... his entry will bring in more Toronto customer who wish to go worship his highness.
It's all about money, and brain-washing your market... Perfect pickings for desperate Leaf fans.... |
|
|
|
Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2009 : 07:14:31
|
Doesn't every team try to 'brainwash' their fans into becoming FANS. How is supporting and cheering for the Leafs any different than cheering and supporting say... the new york rangers? Oh, i must have forgot that the leafs are the only pro sports team that like to make money as well. Get a frickin clue.
Also, Sundin has been a WAY better player throughout his career than Saku Koivu. I think Mats has hall of fame numbers and a Gold medal to boot, but I think the fact that so many people hate the leafs and now mats, that they will not want him in the hall. Stanley Cup or not, he has had a pretty impressive career.
Hey Mr.Guest, did you enjoy that 2 goal performance by Mats against the blues the other night? What a dog eh?
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
|
|
|
Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2009 : 07:22:41
|
Can you imagine if the leafs say, were the 28th highest grossing team in the NHL? Everyone would say "those idiots at MLSE cant even make money with the market they have there in Toronto. they should fire those clowns and bring in some people who know how to maxamize the market" Instead its "all they care about is money, they make more than any other team in the league, so that must mean thats all they care about".
(The following is pure sarcasm)
Everyone knows that Brian Burke doesn't really want to win a stanley cup in toronto. JFJ, do you really think he wanted his club to make the playoffs? get real. He just wanted a paycheck. Pat Quinn, he could care less about winning, as long as the dough was rolling in.
This whole talk about how Toronto only cares about money and not winning, has got to stop. There is a difference between not knowing how to win and not wanting to. Someone has to make the most money, it just happens to be Toronto.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
|
|
|
Guest7161
( )
|
Posted - 02/15/2009 : 14:43:14
|
WOW !!!!! look at all the points sundin can get versus st. louis!!!!
AMAZING!!!!!
Where the heck is he when it counts!!!
oh yeah... usualy he's in the penalty box when his team needs a leader!!
What has he done since that amzing feat against st.louis??
oh yeah.... nothing!!!!
what are vancouver doing lately, in the past 10 games.... ?
oh yeah.... 4-3-3... that'll be enough to win a cup, with special thanks to Sundin.
c'mon leaf fans... let him go.... start looking reality in the eyes and face the truth.... OVER-RATED !!! Say it a few times, it won't hurt... |
|
|
|
Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2009 : 14:59:59
|
I have to be blasphemous for a second here. I think the bible got is all wrong. Well, not all of it, just the part of all the action happening in Israel. It had to happen in Toronto!!
Why???
It seems like the only place on earth where a guy can walk on water!!
Kind of like Mats Sundin did for over a decade. Since he left Toronto, he does the exact same thing but no longer has the ability to be held in such a regard of biblical proportions.
Isn't that wierd??? If a person would have posted 12 months ago that Sundin was such a hack, over rated, and a total bag of pucks, they would have been mutilated.
What a difference a different colored jersey can make.
|
|
|
|
Guest7752
( )
|
Posted - 02/16/2009 : 07:39:45
|
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
I have to be blasphemous for a second here. I think the bible got is all wrong. Well, not all of it, just the part of all the action happening in Israel. It had to happen in Toronto!!
Why???
It seems like the only place on earth where a guy can walk on water!!
Kind of like Mats Sundin did for over a decade. Since he left Toronto, he does the exact same thing but no longer has the ability to be held in such a regard of biblical proportions.
Isn't that wierd??? If a person would have posted 12 months ago that Sundin was such a hack, over rated, and a total bag of pucks, they would have been mutilated.
What a difference a different colored jersey can make.
He was ALWAYS over-rated.
He was ALWAYS held in such high regard... ONLY by LEAF FANS. |
|
|
|
leigh
Moderator
Canada
1755 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2009 : 10:08:29
|
quote:
Originally posted by Guest7161
WOW !!!!! look at all the points sundin can get versus st. louis!!!!
AMAZING!!!!!
Where the heck is he when it counts!!!
oh yeah... usualy he's in the penalty box when his team needs a leader!!
What has he done since that amzing feat against st.louis??
oh yeah.... nothing!!!!
what are vancouver doing lately, in the past 10 games.... ?
oh yeah.... 4-3-3... that'll be enough to win a cup, with special thanks to Sundin.
c'mon leaf fans... let him go.... start looking reality in the eyes and face the truth.... OVER-RATED !!! Say it a few times, it won't hurt...
This post is proof positive that you are not being objective. You can choose not to like him for whatever reason you want, it's your call, but you can't deny that he's been a great player throughout his career. As I've said, Sundin needed to get his legs under him and his timing back before he could contribute to the Canucks. Well in the last 6 games he has 8 points! Obviously he is starting to produce for them, and since he's been producing they have won 5 out of the last 6. The Canucks are now back in playoff contention AND Sundin's only going to get better down the stretch!
|
|
|
|
Guest7752
( )
|
Posted - 02/16/2009 : 10:19:02
|
of course he's going to produce more and more - he HAS to and maybe you did not notice, but he only started to produce once they found GOOD players to players to play him with.
Claude Lemieux would look good and "start producing" if he was put on this "RPM" line!!!
Get real man!!
Sundin will "produce" just enough to get into the playoffs so he can choke like he always did.
history proves it.
he's NOT the leader they think they have to bring them far in the playoffs.
For the recent "wining" record... could it be the fact that Luongo is starting to get back to his form??? PLEASE - do not give credit for this recent good team play to Sundin!!!!
Give it to the defensive core and Luongo, AND finally to the "other" players on the RPM line. |
|
|
|
Guest4803
( )
|
Posted - 02/17/2009 : 09:36:43
|
quote:
Originally posted by Guest7752
For the recent "wining" record... could it be the fact that Luongo is starting to get back to his form??? PLEASE - do not give credit for this recent good team play to Sundin!!!!
Give it to the defensive core and Luongo, AND finally to the "other" players on the RPM line.
Luongo has had one good game out of the last 6 gand that was against montreal... other than that he was avg probably 4 or 5 goals allowed recently....the offense had been carrying the team before that and im pretty sure the rpm line had 22 pts in 3 games......so i wouldnt give luo to much credit. |
|
|
|
Guest6824
( )
|
Posted - 02/17/2009 : 13:09:24
|
quote:
Originally posted by Guest7752
For the recent "wining" record... could it be the fact that Luongo is starting to get back to his form??? PLEASE - do not give credit for this recent good team play to Sundin!!!!
Give it to the defensive core and Luongo, AND finally to the "other" players on the RPM line.
So it was all Mats' fault when the team was doing poorly, but now he doesn't deserve any credit when the team does well...... I think that says enough about your arguement against Sundin. You are just completley biased.
BTW, when Sundin wasn't playing well in Toronto, it was all over the radio shows and newspapers. People critizied the s*** out of him when he was here, from day 1 to his last day. So I'm not quite sure why you sound so confident when you talk about Sundin's career with the Leafs. If you aren't living in Toronto and following the team, than your second hand information is probably going to be anti-leaf spew.
We all know that atheletes who play in Toronto get more attention across Canada but that doesn't mean we think that they walk on water. We supported our team captain, for better or for worse (most of us least...) and if you think that is such a sacriligious thing, than go ahead and do so. I'm just saying, I think you are blowing all your views on Sundin and Toronto way out of proportion.... |
|
|
|
Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2009 : 13:16:31
|
guest 7752: You make this all sound like a giant conspiracy that Mats has been planning and executing all these years. First, he secretly tricks the fans of toronto into thinking he is a really good player, yet the rest of the fans across the league really know the truth! Mats actually sucks!
Now that he has gone to Vancouver, we can all see him for what he really is! A greedy, team destroying parasite, that has absolutley no soul whatsoever!
Yea man, good thing Leaf fans have guys like you around to let them know whats good. Did you feel this way once Gilmour went to New Jersey?
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
|
|
|
Guest7752
( )
|
Posted - 02/18/2009 : 08:05:21
|
where was sundin in yesterday's very important game?
crunch time comes around... luongo shines.... Sundin disappears!!
heck of leader that mr sundin, eh??!?!
by the way, please read my trash talking properly... and don't react based on your emotions girls. if you read things correctly, in summary i said he was a decent player, and over-rated simply based on the fact that Toronto fans were starving for a hero. He waits half a season to see whre he can go win a cup. so now that he's in vancouver - he doesn't really come out looking as the leader this team was looking towards to bring them to the CUP... (not the playoffs... they can do that on their own). pretty funny... i guess he's realizing he needs to work his a** off when it comes to reaching the cup. (whihc he never had to really do in Toronto)
and yes... he is getting points in vancouver.. but look at how he's accumulating them!!! (against st. louis!?) NEVER did he emerge as a leader and go get the crucial win for vancouver. he can't!... he does not have it in him!!! it only "looked like" he had it in him in Toronto becuase they are a weaker team.
and gentlemen, please keep the trash talking to hockey or player related issues... your personal attacks towards me only make you leafs fans look worse |
|
|
|
Guest7752
( )
|
Posted - 02/25/2009 : 07:29:43
|
Well, let me provide an update to all you "experts" who still cannot see the comedy with this guy.
He's now played just about 2 months with this team, actually 19 games.
I think we can all agree that his "hands" and "legs" are in top form now?
No more excuses?
Anyway, has has:
12 points in his 19 games!!!! (outstanding, isn't it?..... or is it really??)
"7" of these 12 points came in three games (CAR-CHI-STL).
Take away this magical 3-games performance, and instread of 12 points in 19 games, he's got:
5 points in 16 games!!!!
Where is he when the team needs him?
He only shows up when the "TEAM" is beating up on weaker opponents.
What a loser... typical ex-leaf.... typical over-rated-by-leaf-fans player...
The only rason canucks are where they are is because of Luongo.
Maybe Sundin needs time off like Kovalev to "think" about the reality of his star-worthy-ness??
|
|
|
|
Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2009 : 07:54:56
|
I think this might be a case of someone watching a difference NHL than the rest of us. The Canucks are 8-2-0 in their last 10 games and have taken at least a point in 11 of their last 13 games. It takes more than a goalie to do that. Sundin has 9 points in those 10 games.
And you can't pick some games to not include in looking at Sundin but leave in others. That would be like saying the first game he played this year doesn't count because he wasn't ready, you can't count Minnesota because they are a good defensive team, and you can't count Toronto because they did an emotional video of him.
That means he has 12 points in 16 games!!!
C'mon, it's just rediculous. And you ask where he is when his team needs him?? Hmm. I wonder who it was icing the game in Toronto on Saturday night in the shoot out????
Who was that guy again???? Can't recall exactly but man was he ever an over-rated,career PPG, highest score Leaf in history loser. And what a bunch of losers at the ACC actually cheering for such a tool after he scored to beat their team.
|
|
|
|
Guest7752
( )
|
Posted - 02/25/2009 : 08:14:08
|
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
C'mon, it's just rediculous. And you ask where he is when his team needs him?? Hmm. I wonder who it was icing the game in Toronto on Saturday night in the shoot out????
Who was that guy again???? Can't recall exactly but man was he ever an over-rated,career PPG, highest score Leaf in history loser. And what a bunch of losers at the ACC actually cheering for such a tool after he scored to beat their team.
That's what i meant when when i asked where is this guy when you need him?
So he scored on a shoot-out?!?! Big deal?!!?
So does A. Markov once in a while... does that make HIM a scoring machine?
How many games did Sundin win for canucks with his leadership?
ZERO !!!!
The losers at ACC are so desperate to cheer for ANYTHING, they will even cheer for losing the games, AND are even now thinking that Antropov and Blake will lead them to the playoffs, and then who knows, anything's possible?? Wake up leaf fans.... |
|
|
|
Thrasher
Rookie
Canada
155 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2009 : 14:03:56
|
Just curious, what would Sundin have to do to win your respect? Is it too late in his career? I don't understand how you can argue that he hasn't picked up his play of late, getting his hands and legs back, just like everyone predicted. Your anti Sundin crusade perhaps losing speed? Why should Sundin not get credit for helping his team win, when he was blamed for them losing. Last night, Vancouver was shut out by Montreal after i think doubling them in shots. Maybe im wrong but the point is, im guessing that is his fault as well? Luongo i think faced around 20 shots and let in three goals. Don`t get me wrong everyone is allowed to have a bad game or two in a season, but please don`t say that this loss was all his fault. The Canucks are one of the hottest teams in hockey, and Sundin has a part to play in that.
Im not a Sundin fan, like i ahve said, and im not replying on emotion. I don`t like the Leafs (but i also don`t understand why everyone hates them so much...), so im not a angry leaf fan yelling. I`m just curious to know what he would have to do before you can accept he was a good pick up. |
|
|
|
leigh
Moderator
Canada
1755 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2009 : 14:39:03
|
quote:
Originally posted by Guest7752
...So he scored on a shoot-out?!?! Big deal?!!?...
Well at least you're finally admitting that Sundin won them a game. That is the first step in the 12 step process. Good job man, be proud. What's step two? Apologies? No need dude, I forgive you.
quote:
Originally posted by Guest7752
How many games did Sundin win for canucks with his leadership?
ZERO !!!!
Last time I checked he wasn't wearing a letter on his jersey. Leadership will also come in time.
One thing you need to consider is that Mats brings an additional "threat" to the Canucks line up. He's a legitimate point threat that other teams have to account for. So this means that they have to cover at least 2 FULL lines on the Canucks, not 1. This contributes to their success.
Give him 6 more games (25 total) to get into full shape and build some more chemistry with linemates then you can start bitching if his numbers are bad.
As for Luongo...best goalie in the league and he is a factor almost every night for the Canucks! But all this means is that they are even better than the average team now with Sundin, Luongo and Salo back in their lineup. |
|
|
|
Guest7161
( )
|
Posted - 03/22/2009 : 07:22:15
|
.......Still laughing at this comedy........
Where is he now that his hands, legs, balls, and whatever else he couldn't find are back?
When the going gets tough - he runs the other way and let's good players like Burrows, and others go win the games...
Sundin shows up when the team's already winning and gets his points after the other team's given up.
What an embarassment for Vancouver mangement, and what a confirmation of how stupid Toronto management / media was for adoring this "average" player. |
|
|
|
Guest0474
( )
|
Posted - 03/22/2009 : 15:47:05
|
The canucks are 5th in the conference and Sundin's scoring rate is 5th best on the team, not to mention the fact that Sundin was not in game shape.
The only people laughing are the Vancouver Canucks. Ha Ha! |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Sundin Comedy 
