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Guest9850
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 Posted - 03/23/2009 : 12:54:18
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I love Ovechkin but the celebration was very odd so I voted for the secon d choice.
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Guest9850
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Posted - 03/23/2009 : 13:04:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
Slozo, Im not saying actually do to OV what Hunter did to LaFontaine, that was just horrible, but that is GOING to rub some guys the wrong way.
What happened with LaFontaine and Hunter. |
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Guest9850
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Posted - 03/23/2009 : 13:15:22
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| Who in their f***en right mind plans a goal celebration. Let it come naturaly |
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freddyboy
Rookie
Canada
218 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2009 : 13:48:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest9850
quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
Slozo, Im not saying actually do to OV what Hunter did to LaFontaine, that was just horrible, but that is GOING to rub some guys the wrong way.
What happened with LaFontaine and Hunter.
first i think it's Turgeon, not lafontaine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xte-Vtxg-m8
joe is a god, if u dont agree....i dont care |
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deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2009 : 06:26:22
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It really warms my heart to see that many of you don't see Cherry as relevant any more . . . maybe the youth of today aren't all bad. 
One thing I can guarantee you - Cherry did a lot of backtracking last Saturday in his comments about Ovie (when he really could have poured it on, frankly) because he was TOLD. NHL execs don't take kindly to their #1 star player being disparaged too much by a very public figure . . .
. . . and yes, he is the #1 star in the league. The NHL is international, and if you think that in Europe (including Russia) it's close to 50/50 for Ovechkin and Crosby in terms of popularity like it is here, you're dead wrong. OV is the man, and Cherry has definitely been pushed to the boards here.
Freddyboy and guest 9850 - it was Turgeon that Dale Hunter took out with a hit from behind, and probably the reason the Isles lost in the finals that year. Hunter received a record 21 game suspension at the time for the dirty hit after a goal was scored.
LaFontaine's brilliant career was ended by a couple of dirty hits, first one by James Patrick (concussion #1), last one by Francouis Leroux (high hit to the head, probably concussion # 3 or 4 at that point).
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2009 : 11:25:10
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I think that saying Cherry is not relevant is more than a little skued. The man had bled hockey for the past 4ish decades. Many (not all) of his opinions are very valid and he is a true advocate of fair play and sportsmanship in the sport of hockey. He supports the country, the military and their families, and the vast majority of his comments are driven towards showing youth in hockey how to play the game safely and with class.
How is that not relevant???
Secondly, Cherry's comments are not off side here. Since his initial comments, and even more so since the "burning stick" celebration, it has been a hot button topic in the media. From the interviews I have seen, there is about a 50/50 split of player on the celebrations after goals. Some players like it, others think is less then desireable. We all know hockey players are PC all the time (unless you name is Avery) but the message is mixed. Not everyone like these kind of celebrations.
And finally, I was listening to sports radio in Edmonton the other day and some of the comments really put it into perspective for me. There were two guys debating the issue. The one guy made a statement that you would never see Joe Sakic or Jarome Iginla going the planned celebrations. The other guys arguement what that Iginla and Sakic are two of the classiest guys in the league and that you can not compare Ovechkin to them.
Well, if one is a true, bonified face of the NHL, one would think you could also be compared to the "classiest" guys in the league.
Maybe it's just me. There is a time and a place for celebrations. And leave the pre-planned stuff for the NFL and CFL. I sure don't think the planned stuff in hockey. |
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MrD
Top Prospect
Canada
19 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2009 : 14:37:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
I think that saying Cherry is not relevant is more than a little skued. The man had bled hockey for the past 4ish decades. Many (not all) of his opinions are very valid and he is a true advocate of fair play and sportsmanship in the sport of hockey. He supports the country, the military and their families, and the vast majority of his comments are driven towards showing youth in hockey how to play the game safely and with class.
How is that not relevant???
Secondly, Cherry's comments are not off side here. Since his initial comments, and even more so since the "burning stick" celebration, it has been a hot button topic in the media. From the interviews I have seen, there is about a 50/50 split of player on the celebrations after goals. Some players like it, others think is less then desireable. We all know hockey players are PC all the time (unless you name is Avery) but the message is mixed. Not everyone like these kind of celebrations.
And finally, I was listening to sports radio in Edmonton the other day and some of the comments really put it into perspective for me. There were two guys debating the issue. The one guy made a statement that you would never see Joe Sakic or Jarome Iginla going the planned celebrations. The other guys arguement what that Iginla and Sakic are two of the classiest guys in the league and that you can not compare Ovechkin to them.
Well, if one is a true, bonified face of the NHL, one would think you could also be compared to the "classiest" guys in the league.
Maybe it's just me. There is a time and a place for celebrations. And leave the pre-planned stuff for the NFL and CFL. I sure don't think the planned stuff in hockey.
I have to agree with Beans here; I think labeling Cherry as 'irrelevant' is simply an opinion and as such does not hold much weight. Although I've grown up with Grapes and pretty much watched Rock 'Em Sock 'Em religiously as a youngin' I can also admit that some of his comments are slightly off-colour (to say the least). This does not in any way negate the passion the man has for the sport and for all the values it encompasses (as Beans has stated quite eloquently). As for what Grapes has been saying about OV's celebrations, they are also just opinions, and again as such don't count for much. It is his job to give his opinion; it is not his job to sugarcoat issues and to sit on the fence. I applaud him now and always will for the fact that he "calls 'em as he sees 'em", as well as his great role as ambassador for the sport, for all things "Canadiana", and for his dedication to supporting our troops. There must be a reason the man was voted as one of the greatest Canadians along with the likes of men that have given us healthcare, awareness for diseases such as cancer and diabetes, and of course the man who essentially gave us our country.
As for the topic and my personal opinion, I don't care much for pre-planned celebrations. They don't in my opinion "sell the game" (as people will watch the sport for the sport itself and not the sideshow attractions). I find them a bit immature, and as role models these athletes should not be demonstrating poor sportsmanship nor any "better than you" attitude, and instead should be promoting humbleness and humility. Spontaneous celebrations due to high emotion and true passion for the game (as some have been arguing here) are simply that - spur of the moment and full of emotion, and to me they are not as insulting or embarassing as pre-planned "hot stick" garbage. That being said, I still like OV and the excitement he brings to the game. I just hope he takes heed of Cherry's advice and realizes he is better than that.
Milbury and McGuire should fight to the death and both lose. |
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Guest9030
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Posted - 03/24/2009 : 23:13:25
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Just cause crosby doesnt mind doesnt mean its a good thing to do.quote:
Originally posted by Canucks Man
quote:
Originally posted by hanley6
Crosby complains about Ovechkins celebrations and he does it too.
Just pointing out that I saw the interview with Crosby about Ovechkins 50th goal celebration and he said he didnt think there was anything wrong with it.
CANUCKS RULE!!!
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Canucks Man
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1547 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2009 : 01:21:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest9030
Just cause crosby doesnt mind doesnt mean its a good thing to do.quote:
Originally posted by Canucks Man
quote:
Originally posted by hanley6
Crosby complains about Ovechkins celebrations and he does it too.
Just pointing out that I saw the interview with Crosby about Ovechkins 50th goal celebration and he said he didnt think there was anything wrong with it.
CANUCKS RULE!!!
Thats not what I said at all, I was just pointing out that an attack on Crosby was not warrented.
Also IMO there isnt anything really wrong with what he did, people have done things that could be considered worse:
Avery- Push Ups
Hejduk- The Swim
Selanne- Shooting the Glove
CANUCKS RULE!!!
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n/a
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4809 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2009 : 04:47:25
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It might seem off topic to pick on Cherry (does that make me a cherry-picker?) but really, we wouldn't be having this long discussion on Ovechkin's celebrations if not for him. Well, at least until the pre-planned 50th goal celebration, anyway.
My personal opinion - I wouldn't have done that "stick on fire" thing, and I'm not the biggest fan of elaborate celebrations like that. But Ovechkin has certainly earned that right to do all the celebrating he wants, and we quite likely won't see any other player get a chance to celebrate 50 goals this year, that's how great an accomplishment it has been. He brings excitement - tangible excitement - to the game.
What does Cherry bring to the game?
Well, he has immersed himself in Canadiana, to try and keep his job and stroke his fame. And he has, quite inappropriately, in my opinion, brought into play this odd notion of loyalty to country, supporting volunteer forces in illegal wars, as if it had even the slightest to do with hockey. Cherry loves to pound the table on issues that might fill Canadians with false pride, and unfortunately, it works a lot of the time, because he is then able to give retarded opinions filled with cultural bias, racism, etc and have people still lap it up, as they are in the mood to listen to anything he has to say at that point.
It's jingoism at its finest, and it reeks of propoganda.
"Canadians are tough, we go in the corners . . . just like our fine boys in Afghanistan, we don't back down from nobody! <insert racist observation here> Maple syrup! Touque! Hockey fight! Oh Canada!"
Might as well have a Rush Limbaugh figure expounding the virtues of winning the war in Iraq and supporting the troops there while doing commentary for the NFL or baseball . . . it is so wrong on so many levels.
I stand by my statement - Cherry, to me, is not relevant at all. He is a loud windbag, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Guest9278
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Posted - 03/25/2009 : 06:51:56
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I tihnk people are missunderstanding the point of don cherry. You can watch it on TV and say w/e its ugly or wow it was funny etc. , But his point was put yourself in Vinny Lecavalier shoes or marty st louis.... they are classy proffesionnal playing in a flawed organization with a disaster year.... They do not need to see that. Its like rubbing it more in there face.
Therefore... i say that ovechkin only thinks of himself and not for the respect of others players. Put yourself in thr shoes and i garantee you ur oponion will change.... i know i wouldnt like getting rub in my face like that if i already had everything go wrong this year.
I think what don cherry was tryign to see is you should respect players on others teams just as much as your team. You might not like certain players etc.. there is always rivalry But respect is a big thing and what ovechkin did was disrespectful |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2009 : 09:37:36
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quote:
Originally posted by slozo
It might seem off topic to pick on Cherry (does that make me a cherry-picker?) but really, we wouldn't be having this long discussion on Ovechkin's celebrations if not for him. Well, at least until the pre-planned 50th goal celebration, anyway.
My personal opinion - I wouldn't have done that "stick on fire" thing, and I'm not the biggest fan of elaborate celebrations like that. But Ovechkin has certainly earned that right to do all the celebrating he wants, and we quite likely won't see any other player get a chance to celebrate 50 goals this year, that's how great an accomplishment it has been. He brings excitement - tangible excitement - to the game.
What does Cherry bring to the game?
Well, he has immersed himself in Canadiana, to try and keep his job and stroke his fame. And he has, quite inappropriately, in my opinion, brought into play this odd notion of loyalty to country, supporting volunteer forces in illegal wars, as if it had even the slightest to do with hockey. Cherry loves to pound the table on issues that might fill Canadians with false pride, and unfortunately, it works a lot of the time, because he is then able to give retarded opinions filled with cultural bias, racism, etc and have people still lap it up, as they are in the mood to listen to anything he has to say at that point.
It's jingoism at its finest, and it reeks of propoganda.
"Canadians are tough, we go in the corners . . . just like our fine boys in Afghanistan, we don't back down from nobody! <insert racist observation here> Maple syrup! Touque! Hockey fight! Oh Canada!"
Might as well have a Rush Limbaugh figure expounding the virtues of winning the war in Iraq and supporting the troops there while doing commentary for the NFL or baseball . . . it is so wrong on so many levels.
I stand by my statement - Cherry, to me, is not relevant at all. He is a loud windbag, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Slozo, by this latest statement you seem to be doing something that Cherry does not, and that is bring in the Politics of the situations. He doesn't do that. He doesn't argue weather it is right or it is wrong to be in a war. He backs the people over there fighting regardless of the reason. I don't believe he has ever gone on record as being for the war or against it. He is for the troops, and there is a significant difference between the two.
And as far as his "racism," give me a break. The statements he makes are based on a game and a style of game that players from different countries employ. That has nothing to do with racism at all. It has to do with playing style and coaching. Nothing personal or racist. He calls out as many Canadians and Americans for weak play than he does any players from any other countries.
And what does Cherry bring to the game?? An objective opinion among other things. He does not change his views. He stands firm on what he believes weather it is popular or not. That is rare in any form of media, let along sports media. Above that, he belongs in the same class a Foster Hewitt, Bob Cole, d*** Irvin, and Ron McLean to name a few. These guys make (made) HNIC what it is. A classic piece of Canadiana. Regardless of what teams were playing or if it was or was not a good game, you can count on Coaches Corner and the guys calling the game to do what they do best.
The bottom line is that you have different views that Cherry does. Neither is right or wrong. But the fact that he has been an institution in thes country commands a level of respect.
I personally don't agree with everything Cherry has to say either, but I have the respect of a differing opinion regardless of who the person is making the statement.
However, in this case, I completely agree. As I stated, there is a time and a place for celebrations. Individual milestones is one of those times, but not at the expense of the other team. Ultimately, if one says that 50 goals is allowed, what about 40?? 30?? Even a 20 goal season for some players is a huge milestone?? It's tough.
In the end, Celebrate your accomplishments with your team in a classy way that does not demean the other team. Regardless of who you are or where you come from. |
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Guest0474
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Posted - 03/25/2009 : 10:52:34
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| I don't see how some people can be for ripping OV a new one for unsportsmanlike conduct, and at the same time not have anything to say about all of the trash talk and hackery that takes place on the ice. As long as there is trash talk and cheap shots on thice, OV should be able to celebrate any damn way he wants to. Times have changed and the game is always changing, goal celebrations are now a part of the game like anything else. Cripes they're guys playing a game, not people living in communist countries. |
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4809 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2009 : 04:37:19
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This is only marginally related to hockey, but I feel I need to rebut your remarks, Beans:
Slozo, by this latest statement you seem to be doing something that Cherry does not, and that is bring in the Politics of the situations. He doesn't do that. He doesn't argue weather it is right or it is wrong to be in a war. He backs the people over there fighting regardless of the reason. I don't believe he has ever gone on record as being for the war or against it. He is for the troops, and there is a significant difference between the two.
Cherry is the one who brings up the troops in Afghanistan at every turn - how is that related to hockey?!?
Beans - I do not have the disconnect that you and 90% of the Canadian public have in terms of support of the voluntary troops in a war that has nothing to do with defence of our country. Nothing. And in the context that most people are against the war, there has been a huge push of war propoganda from the Canadian gov't, and guys like Cherry have been the windbags to further it among the masses. I have no compassion, sympathy or support for illegal invaders, especially when my tax dollars support it, although there was never any vote for it. It is the very antithesis of democracy.
You say Cherry has never explicitly stated that he is for the war in Afghanistan?!? You ought to watch Cherry's wording more carefully then . . . because he has. And, more importantly, unless Canada starts a draft, support of a voluntary force of troops taking part in a totally immoral war effort that has chosen to bomb civilians, use internationally banned munitions such as cluster bombs and depleted uranium, and put in puppet dictators to support drug traffic and oil pipelines - support of these troops is EXACTLY in support of the war.
I have no disconnect whatsoever between support for the troops and the war they are fighting in. When the force is voluntary, they are one and the same.
I know most of you will disagree, having watched hundreds of hours of TV and war advertising that supports this false notion of nobility surrounding the phrase, "support the troops". But, that is my opinion, and where I am coming from when I say Don Cherry is a propogandist for gov't military incursions and support thereof.
Like I said in the beginning - little to do with hockey . . . but it's your man Cherry who brings it up every time, not me.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2009 : 07:23:08
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Slozo, you are missing my point completely as well as proving it at the same time. You are making it political when it is patriotic. I don't believe in the war, but I support all the people in the military for the fact that they sacfirice their lives to protect and keep the freedoms and liberties I have.
I am thankful for that.
I won't get into the politics of it, because that is not my point. Regardless if you agree with the war or not, your statements seem to be negative toward the troops. And you are very much over simplifying the volentary military part. Once you are in, it is difficult to get out.
And regardless, why would anyone question someone fighting for something they believe in???
And the fact that the Sport that I love has advocates in their group that also support those people is something I am proud of.
And I guess that any other organization that supports the troops in wrong in their actions as well???
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Edited by - Beans15 on 03/26/2009 10:34:10 |
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andyhack
PickupHockey Pro
Japan
891 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2009 : 07:51:57
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Anyway, for a guy who is not relevant, good OLD Grapes seems to be stirring up quite the little bruhaha right here.
Don Cherry - love him or hate him, he has been a memorable, check that, absolutely unforgettable, character in our lives as hockey fans.
His tributes to the poor souls who pass away overseas? To each his own as to whether they agree with it or not - BUT it's hard to argue that it's not a well-meaning gesture coming from a decent part of the guy.
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2009 : 11:31:01
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Gonna take a while for me to get used to this blue background instead of the orange . . .
Beans - you missed one of my points, which was: patriotism is politics. The country is a political entity, and the army is a branch of that entity.
And that's all I have to say about that. No more politics in sports is what I want, that's all.
BTW, being proud of and supporting troops is taking a stance, politically.
And finally, it has nothing to do with hockey, which is why it shouldn't get a lion's share of air time like it does on Coaches Corner, etc.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
Edited by - n/a on 03/26/2009 15:25:37 |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2009 : 11:41:51
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Gents,
I missed the post from MSC. No ill will inteneded. I think we all need to remember the forum rules and remember we are arguing opinions, not people. At times, passion comes out, but that does not make any personal attacks allowed.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinions.
As far as this goes, I guess that Slozo and I will have to agree to disagree as I emphatically diagree that patriotism is a political stance. Once can be Left Wing, Right Wing, or anything in between and still be patriotic.
However, this is well off base from the original topic and for that I apologize. No offense intended towards anyone.
I still don't like the hot stick and I still think that celebrating a goal in a nothing game or a blow out is classless.  |
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admin
Forum Admin
Canada
2338 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2009 : 12:31:49
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Hello gentlemen,
Ok first off, we are WAY off topic here (moderators...tsk tsk! ) So let's drop the war topic and let's also drop the onus of the conversation being about Don Cherry. The topic at hand is Ovenchkin's celebrations. Let's stick to it please
Secondly MSC, full respect to you as a valued contributor, but I have deleted your post as it was quite personal. I can appreciate how this post has got out of hand and that topics of a political nature can make us all get heated. Thank you in advance for your mutual respect.
Let's get back to hockey boys |
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MSC
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
601 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2009 : 12:52:59
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Also to stay on topic....I don't see what the difference between Ovechkin and his premeditated celebration and Averys premeditated distraction against Brodeur. Both were technically legal (at the time), both irked the other team, both irked their own team. The NHL is walking a fine line here.
Now to gladly go off topic...
edited off topic portion...I guess myself and admin were typing at the same time. You will have to excuse me for getting personal, sometimes it's hard when things are already personal.
On a side note, my we please go with the whats good for the goose is good for the gander philosophy please....this seemed almost identical to what I wrote..
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Edited by - n/a on 03/26/2009 15:26:43 |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2009 : 15:33:01
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I editted out the offending bits that I wrote (and that MSC quoted).
MSC - I agree, let's stay on hockey. 
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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admin
Forum Admin
Canada
2338 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2009 : 15:35:36
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| Thanks fellas! |
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Guest8032
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Posted - 03/26/2009 : 16:59:10
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| I think ovechkin has earned his respect to do that kind of stuff |
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Guest9240
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Posted - 03/26/2009 : 18:51:41
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though i SOMETIMES enjoy football celebrations that were planned i dont really enjoy seeing NHL players do the same. difference if you watch an NFL game they can get pretty creative. last week i had to sit and watch a grown man prance around his stick and get denied by his own teammate to join in. ovi is a passionate player but he had lots of time to think up this celebration, couldnt he have come up with something better? weak celebration in my eyes and if your gonna get a teammate invovled...make sure he WANTS to be a part of it. i know if i had about 70 games to plan my 50th goal celebration(we all knew hed do it and he did to) i could come up with something a lot better, maybe worthy of a small fine like the NFL players. because of his terrible celebration i hope i never see him score 50 again, may he sit on 49 every year!
Rock em Sock em
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2009 : 19:29:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest8032
I think ovechkin has earned his respect to do that kind of stuff
No player can earn enough respect to disrespect another team or player. That is the point.
Why is it that the best of the best of all time only celebrated the big goal in the big game??? I don't recall Lemieux, Gretzky, Messier, Orr, Howe, Bossy, Bourque and the likes ever riding their sticks down the ice, droppin it like it's hot, or cupping their hand around their ear to entice the fans to cheer.
Honor begets honor and class is not a part time job. |
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Guest0474
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Posted - 03/26/2009 : 21:27:04
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| There is a double standard though. Players are talking trash and delivering cheap shots on a regular basis. Yet OV is scrutinized for a goal celebration. If we're going to be all uppity on OV's goal celebrations, lets get uppity at all the other stuff that goes on. The game has evolved and is constantly evolving. In the 50's there were almost no goal celebrations, now there are lots. That's progress, deal with it. |
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deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2009 : 04:32:40
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Guest 0474 - bang on.
The game has changed . . . and although we all, I'm sure, have an idealised picture in our head of how the game of hockey should be played, it doesn't always happen that way. There was a lot of shi*talking way back in the day too, I'll reckon, and goodness knows there were plenty of threats given to players on the ice. I've heard lots of stories . . . and, back in the day, no one would have celebrated a goal in a manner even close to what Ovechkin did when he scored his 50th.
But back in those days, a man had to wear a suit on the street, or he'd be considered a bum (but even the bums had suits!). Every woman wore a dress. You wouldn't have ever heard a swear word exclaimed on the streets. Overall, the rigid level of decorum and respect was much higher than today.
Times have changed, and yes - all of us old geezers (myself included) may not totally agree with it. But, that's the way it is now . . . and I stand by my assertion that Ovechkin didn't try to show up anyone on TB: he just scored his 50th, and celebrated it in his own way. I don't see anyone else doing a celebration like that . . . only because, no one else in the league will score 50 this year.
Full respect to Ovechkin for his accomplishment, he gets a free pass from me.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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MSC
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
601 Posts |
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Guest9289
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Posted - 03/27/2009 : 10:47:04
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| Guest0474 - what you dont understand is the WAY the goals are celebrated, we are not saying to elimitate celebrations altogether here. Every player celebrates a goal and the 50th goal can be a bigger celebration, but not to look like an idiot as OV did..even his teammate rejected it. |
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MrD
Top Prospect
Canada
19 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2009 : 12:48:48
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quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Guest 0474 - bang on.
The game has changed . . . and although we all, I'm sure, have an idealised picture in our head of how the game of hockey should be played, it doesn't always happen that way. There was a lot of shi*talking way back in the day too, I'll reckon, and goodness knows there were plenty of threats given to players on the ice. I've heard lots of stories . . . and, back in the day, no one would have celebrated a goal in a manner even close to what Ovechkin did when he scored his 50th.
But back in those days, a man had to wear a suit on the street, or he'd be considered a bum (but even the bums had suits!). Every woman wore a dress. You wouldn't have ever heard a swear word exclaimed on the streets. Overall, the rigid level of decorum and respect was much higher than today.
Times have changed, and yes - all of us old geezers (myself included) may not totally agree with it. But, that's the way it is now . . . and I stand by my assertion that Ovechkin didn't try to show up anyone on TB: he just scored his 50th, and celebrated it in his own way. I don't see anyone else doing a celebration like that . . . only because, no one else in the league will score 50 this year.
Full respect to Ovechkin for his accomplishment, he gets a free pass from me.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Yes Slozo, things have indeed changed in hockey as they have in society, but does that mean that the changes should simply be accepted? If the level of decorum and respect has declined (in hockey as well as society in general) should we not at least attempt to revert our attitudes and ideals to how things were in "the good ol' days"? If you truly believe in honourable values such as respect, humbleness and the likes, would you not try and revive them rather than just roll over and accept it? What I'm getting at is that even though times have changed, and standards have changed, simply accepting it will only perpetuate regression.
As a highschool teacher and a coach I try to instill these important values in my students as oposed to just acknowledging that things are indeed different right now. Although I'm still a youngin' (I hope ) in my mid 20's I like yourself do not necessarily agree with some of the ways the game has changed (in my opinion for the worse). That is why I encourage my kids to display tact and class as much as possible. I'm not telling them that what OV did was wrong, nor does he not deserve accolades for his on ice success and passion for the game; I simply remind them that as a star in the league, you have a certain reponsibility as a role model that has the spotlight shone on him more than others, and as such you need to accept the responsibility that your actions will absolutely influence others. I in no way want to perpetuate or increase premeditated celebrations because they will no doubt begin to appear in forms of mockery, disrespect, and insult.
Don't read me wrong here; I am not furious or disgusted with what OV did. I still appreciate greatly his contributions to our beloved game. I do however agree with Cherry when he said that OV should know better. Perhaps he will mature through his years and realize the responsibility he possesses being a super-star in the NHL.
And just in response to the guest who made the argument that we don't scrutinize other players and other dispicable acts in the NHL, we actually do, but most likely in a different forum But we do not do it to the extent of how we have with OV. This again is due to the fact that he is a super-star in the league and not simply a 4th line role player. It's a really cheesy line, but it goes without saying that with great power comes great responsibility. Wow, I can't believe I just used that
Milbury and McGuire should fight to the death and both lose. |
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Guest0474
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Posted - 03/27/2009 : 17:55:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest9289
Guest0474 - what you dont understand is the WAY the goals are celebrated, we are not saying to elimitate celebrations altogether here. Every player celebrates a goal and the 50th goal can be a bigger celebration, but not to look like an idiot as OV did..even his teammate rejected it.
If OV wants to be like that, that's his problem and he's the one that has to deal with it. OV however can back himself up physically. If OV wants to trash the other team that's fine as well. If your uppity at OV doing what he does, get uppity at all the other players who take cheap shots and talk trash on the ice. They're role models as well. |
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Guest4061
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Posted - 03/27/2009 : 19:29:35
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| Who cares! Yes what he did was kind of stupid and to be honest, if I was the goalie in net that night, I probably would have went over and knocked him on his ass. So what if he celebrates, big whoop. He'll never catch the real all-time record holders anyways (except maybe the shots on goal category). I mean, he should have as many goals as he does if not more, considering how many shots he takes (puck-hog I think is what they call it). Funny how the Canadian on the shift didn't want to participate. That's my thoughts on the whole thing (and I like Ovechkin). |
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MrD
Top Prospect
Canada
19 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2009 : 20:42:11
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quote:
[i]
If OV wants to be like that, that's his problem and he's the one that has to deal with it. OV however can back himself up physically. If OV wants to trash the other team that's fine as well. If your uppity at OV doing what he does, get uppity at all the other players who take cheap shots and talk trash on the ice. They're role models as well.
The thing is he isn't the only one that has to deal with it. Every coach (and I'm not only talking those in the show) have to deal with young kids that will replicate OV's celebration because to many of them he is a God; and if OV does it, they want to do it as well. This is where we get role models gone wrong. If OV wants to trash the other team, and you think that is fine, well then you unfortunately have never been taught the valour and integrity of sportsmanship. That is the essence of where today's problem of disrespect comes from.
Again, people do get "uppity" about other players' cheap shots and missteps, only not as much as with OV because if you think Danny Cleary is as much of a role model as OV, you must be from Harbour Grace NL (not a knock here because it's a beautiful town ) Yes they're all role models, but I'm sure the ratio of OV's worshipers to Cleary's is slightly one sided. Either way, to each their own, but for mine, I prefer a dignified, respectful game and not some side show, antic filled, ego boosting competition. Be humble; accept that you are indeed extremely talented and have reached an incredible milestone; but for the sake of those that truly love the game and what it can teach kids, don't be a showboat.
Milbury and McGuire should fight to the death and both lose. |
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Guest0474
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Posted - 03/27/2009 : 21:04:18
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quote:
Originally posted by MrD
The thing is he isn't the only one that has to deal with it. Every coach (and I'm not only talking those in the show) have to deal with young kids that will replicate OV's celebration because to many of them he is a God; and if OV does it, they want to do it as well. This is where we get role models gone wrong. If OV wants to trash the other team, and you think that is fine, well then you unfortunately have never been taught the valour and integrity of sportsmanship. That is the essence of where today's problem of disrespect comes from.
Again, people do get "uppity" about other players' cheap shots and missteps, only not as much as with OV because if you think Danny Cleary is as much of a role model as OV, you must be from Harbour Grace NL (not a knock here because it's a beautiful town) Yes they're all role models, but I'm sure the ratio of OV's worshipers to Cleary's is slightly one sided. Either way, to each their own, but for mine, I prefer a dignified, respectful game and not some side show, antic filled, ego boosting competition. Be humble; accept that you are indeed extremely talented and have reached an incredible milestone; but for the sake of those that truly love the game and what it can teach kids, don't be a showboat.
Milbury and McGuire should fight to the death and both lose.
With players talking trash on the ice and hacking and taking cheap shots at each other, sportsmanship is a non issue.
Should kids be following Crosby's example and beaking players on the ice. If OV found a way to get inside people's heads, more power to him. The train has left the station, there are celebrations a plenty and the game is always changing, OV is just riding the wave. |
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Guest4061
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Posted - 03/28/2009 : 09:27:49
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| Guest 0474... do you even know what your talking about? Most of what you've said so far makes no sense whatsoever. Maybe in your delusional little world, but not in the real world. |
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JERJ2008
Top Prospect
Canada
25 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2009 : 16:42:16
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| I love the guy, think he's a great player, then next Pavel Bure. I like how he jumps into the glass, love his reaction to scoring. On his 50th though... Not necessary. The last thing the NHL needs is influence from the NFL or NBA. As of right now, there's no Terrel Owens in the NHL, but if kids grow up looking at guys like Ovechkin, and they will because he's such a good player, and see him doing stupid dances around their sticks, then the arrogant pricks amongst the kids who see that will think it's the new thing to do, and when they make it to the NHL, then we'll have the Terrel Owens of the NHL. So be happy and celebrate, but keep it in line please... |
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Guest6030
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Posted - 03/28/2009 : 17:56:02
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Guest0474 - we are not talking about cheap shots and trash talk now,t this forum is about OV's celebration. And what he did is stupid, plain simple stupid.
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Guest0474
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Posted - 03/28/2009 : 21:59:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest6030
Guest0474 - we are not talking about cheap shots and trash talk now,t this forum is about OV's celebration. And what he did is stupid, plain simple stupid.
You guys are complaining about how it wasn't sportsmanlike, is cheap shots and trash talk sportsmanlike?
This isn't commie china, it's a hockey rink, if OV can put on a show and back it up by his game and physically, then all the power to him. Good grief, the game is changing constantly, this is a change people are going to have to deal with. What's even funnier is how people are saying what about the kids, well how about the kids watching some of the superstars jabbering away like Crosby or hacking an ankle like Bobby Clarke, or the infamous Gretzky high stick? If we're all about the kids being good sports, lets have some consistency. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2009 : 11:53:36
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MrD - you bring up some very good points, and I wholeheartedly agree with you that we should strive to be better, and promote honourable behaviour.
Well, I'm not promoting OV's behaviour in any way; but I feel also that we have no right to denounce it. Isn't the honourable way to show by example, and choose positive reinforcement over negative reinforcement?
But like I said - I totally agree with you in principle, and we may not have much of an argument really.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Guest5898
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Posted - 03/31/2009 : 12:27:48
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| frankly, who the f*** cares stop talking about it |
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Topic |
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Ovechkin's Goal Celebrations 
