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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
 Posted - 03/31/2009 : 13:46:08
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is this any different to the outrage that was present when Elvis first appeared and all the mothers were disgusted by his sexual danacing (his knee shaking and what not) or when kids starting growing long hair in the sixties and all the adults were crying 'for shame!' People fear change, OV is a revolutionary, one day he will be referred to as hockeys Rosa Parks, hahaha
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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forumer09
Top Prospect
16 Posts |
Posted - 04/20/2009 : 16:08:33
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love em |
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Guest8241
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Posted - 04/21/2009 : 05:12:16
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| Ok, so because Don Cherry says he doesn't like them, everyone hates them. Ovechkin is hands down, the deadliest sniper in the league. So what if he celebrates his goalS, he has passion for the game. And with all do respect to Cherry, but he played one shift, and didn't record a single point, shot or hit. So what qualifies him to pass judgment on the 60+ goal scorer? Does anyone realize that Cherry is the most racist TV personality out there? Canadian tax payers pay his salary and that’s what we get, a guy who says "there are too many Europeans in Detroit and they play boring hockey"...maybe, but they are the defending STANLEY CUP CHAMPIONS! Also, he encourages our kids to hit and fight rather the score? Cherry should just admit it, Europeans, more specifically Russians are just as dominant in the NHL as good ol' Canadian kids. Crosby is NOT the best player in the NHL, live with it! Back to the main topic....OVECHKIN CELEBRATIONS....LOVE EM!!! |
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MSC
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
601 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2009 : 05:54:30
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| Ovechkin scores more goals then anyone in the league yes. To call him "hands down" the best sniper in the league in ridulous. There's quite a few players in the league just as talented at putting the puck in the net and if they took as many shots as Ovechkin then they to would be scoring in Ovechkin style quantity. No knock on Ovechkin, other players deserve credit as well. |
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Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
546 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2009 : 07:30:59
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Yea, can't forget about Kovalchuck, Parise, Iginla etc. Ove's celebrations are great for the game, he bring's passion every night, and has anyone noticed that he gets more excited when one of his team mates scores?
"Everytime you step out onto the ice, it's a clean slate, anyone can win" |
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deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2009 : 07:56:39
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To call him "hands down" the best sniper is not ridiculous (or 'ridulous', as one poster here ironically posited).
Ovechkin is HANDS DOWN the best sniper in the league. No one comes close right now.
You can only take a shot when you have the time and space and proximity to the goal . . . so this argument about "if this guy took more shots" is horseradish. You must give credit where credit is due: OV's next best competition this year was 10 goals behind, the year before, 13. After his first two years of being in the top 5 mix of best goal-scorers, OV is reaching his prime, and is clearly head and shoulders above everyone right now. The prime of a goal-scorer's career generally doesn't last more than five years before diminished returns, so let's just enjoy it now, shall we?
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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MSC
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
601 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2009 : 09:03:00
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me and me embrassing speling mistackes.
Thank you for proving my point Mr. Slozo. Ovechkin had a whopping 10 more goals then the next closest guy and just a mere 200 more shots. You're right horseradish all around. |
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Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
546 Posts |
Posted - 04/21/2009 : 12:26:52
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Not to mention, the whole "hot stick" thing was horribly choreographed, it was funny if anything, not showing up the other team. If that was the case, a D-man from Tampa would have decked him lol...but 116 goals over the last two years, the man can do what he wants lol
"Everytime you step out onto the ice, it's a clean slate, anyone can win" |
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deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2009 : 06:49:32
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Well, MSC - if you dish it out, you better be prepared to take it.
A whopping 10 more goals than the next best goal-scorer is amazing, yes . . . especially when one considers that Ovechkin had 56 goals to Carter's 46. That works out to 21.7% better than the very best that the rest of the field has to offer, or more than one-fifth. In today's professional sports leagues, that's an enormous gulf that is extremely rare.
Yes, 156 more shots on goal than Eric Staal is a lot more. Ovechkin's shooting percentage of .106 is pretty average for a good goal-scorer in the NHL, sure. That being said, no one will say that Ryan Malone and Lou Eriksson would be 70 or 80 goal-scorers if they took as many shots as Ovechkin does (they are the leaders in shooting percentage at .210 and .202 respectively). I don't think they would even have the ability to take 400 shots on goal, and I doubt if either will ever break the 40 goal mark - hockey just doesn't work like that.
Ovechkin is head and shoulders above the rest of the league in goal-scoring right now, period. He was the only 50 goal scorer this year. He should be allowed to celebrate his 50th how he wants to, whether you like his style or not.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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MSC
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
601 Posts |
Posted - 04/22/2009 : 08:47:37
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I guess when I said there are other players in the league just as skilled at putting the puck in the net as Ovechkin I was being to broad. This list does not now or will ever include Ryan Malone(edit, I think it's to early to judge Eriksson), very nice work using statistics to your advantage though (especially for an english teacher).
The following people are the some of the ones I would consider elite goal scorers who are MORE then capable of making the space and getting their shots off if they wanted and their goal totals if they took as many shots as Ovechkin based on their shooting %.
Jeff Carter shooting %13.5 would have scored 71 goals on 528 shots
Parise shooting %13.5 would have scored 66 goals on 528 shots
Kovy shooting %15.6 would have scored 82 goals on 528 shots
Vanek shooting %19.0 would have scored 100 goals on 528 shots
Nash shooting %15.2 would have scored 80 goals on 528 shots
I'm not saying they would have scored that many goals but all of these guys are very capable of creating their own scoring opportunities and if they took a more me first approach then they could have easily challenged Ovechkin for the scoring title. Especially Kovulchuk, not only did he have a better shooting % but he definatly did not have the same caliber of linemates as Ovechkin.
Another telling point is the fact that Boudreau told Ovechkin he has to start getting his teamates involved more during the playoffs after starting 0-2. If your coach is telling you to change your style of play in order to give your team a chance at winning that should open your eyes.
So, once again, Ovechkin IS NOT "Hands Down" the best goal scorer in the league.
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Edited by - MSC on 04/22/2009 09:34:51 |
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fly4apuckguy
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
834 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2009 : 22:30:08
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Ovechkin is a selfish player who shoots too often, and should dish the puck once in awhile. He'd shoot from the dressing room if he could.
He's a great talent, but he is more in love with himself than the game.
If Crosby said or did the things Ovechkin does, he'd be absolutely crucified by the press and by internet tough guys. But because Ovy has a Russian accent and is funny looking, we say "it's good for the league" or "it's entertaining". I don't find it to be either. The league would be fine without his act. Mike Bossy scored more goals that he ever will. Hull too. Gretz. Mario. I could go on. The league survived when those guys moved on.
Whatever. He is showing what a leader he is right now in the playoffs. |
Edited by - fly4apuckguy on 04/23/2009 22:30:41 |
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MSC
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
601 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2009 : 05:26:18
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| Have I mentioned it's good to see you back Fly? |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2009 : 05:42:42
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You guys are hilarious - MSC: yes, you were being too broad . . . and by thinking that in today's league that any of the guys you mentioned could get as many goals as Ovechkin if they only shot more - well, that's pure comedy.
Anyways, this thread is about Ovechkin's goal celebration, not his goal scoring ability.
Did anyone here think he celebrated 'too much' for his first goal of this year's playoffs (in his team's 2-1 loss to the NYR)?
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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MSC
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
601 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2009 : 06:33:44
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| Kovulchuk has scored 50+ goals twice, both seasons he did he played under the 80 games. Iginla's scored 50+ goals in 2 seasons. Dany Heatley has done it twice as well. All three of these guys are in their prime and could challenge for the Richard in any given year. When you add guys like Parise, Malkin, Carter, Nash, Staal, Vanek, Boyes who are all either in their prime or JUST BEGINNING their careers and have all scored 40+ goals in their short careers. To suggest that any of these players couldn't score as many goals as Ovechkin isn't even pure comedy it's just plain ignorant. |
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Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
546 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2009 : 06:38:47
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Ovechkin is NOT the only player in the NHL capable of reaching the 50 goal mark. If players like Iginla, Kovalchuck, Parise etc. Had supporting cast like Backstrom, Green and Semin, I'm sure they'd all get there easily. Even if they don't take 500+ shots.
"Everytime you step out onto the ice, it's a clean slate, anyone can win" |
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fly4apuckguy
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
834 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2009 : 06:51:32
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quote:
Originally posted by MSC
Have I mentioned it's good to see you back Fly?
Thanks. As you can see, I haven't changed much. 
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2009 : 06:55:51
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No one can score 50 goals EASILY. Ovechkin blew away the goal scoring competition easily the last two years, though.
My opinion isn't based on 'ifs' or 'buts' . . . it's based on fact.
Barring injury to Ovechkin, who is willing to take a bet with me on OV winning the scoring title again next year? Anyone? Anyone?
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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fly4apuckguy
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
834 Posts |
Posted - 04/24/2009 : 17:54:12
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quote:
Originally posted by slozo
No one can score 50 goals EASILY. Ovechkin blew away the goal scoring competition easily the last two years, though.
My opinion isn't based on 'ifs' or 'buts' . . . it's based on fact.
Barring injury to Ovechkin, who is willing to take a bet with me on OV winning the scoring title again next year? Anyone? Anyone?
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
I'll bet you that he has a worse shooting percentage than anyone else in the top 20 scoring. |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2009 : 15:32:41
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I'll bet you that once again, next year, shooting percentage will mean jack s*** in terms of wins, losses, mvp status, and the scoring title.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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MSC
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
601 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2009 : 16:15:51
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| And I'm willing to bet that it'll mean everthing come playoff time again next year when they suffer another first round elimination because his selfish style doesn't equal success. |
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fly4apuckguy
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
834 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2009 : 19:36:59
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I actually think Ovechkin is a phenominal talent. I'll even admit, probably the best pure talent in the NHL.
But I don't like his act. I'm old school. I don't mind a spontaneous celebration, even one that is a bit overboard under certain circumstances.
But this guy thinks he is the show. I know what his teammates say, "That's just Alex being Alex", and "He's entertaining." I wonder what they really think.
I think part of the reason I dislike him so much is for the simple fact that his supporters treat his counterpart, Sidney Crosby, so poorly. They can't acknowledge two talents, they have to call him a whiner (which he has not done since 2005), and a baby (was he a baby when he was getting killed in the corner today, and still scored two goals to lead his team to the second round of the playoffs)?
In short, Ovechkin's people have no objectivity. And neither does he. When asked who the best player in the world is, he will reply himself.
Some (mostly younger) fans love that kind of arrogance, and take Crosby's lack of it to mean he's gutless. Younger fans think being arrogant is good for the popularity of the game. I'm not young (38), and I do not need "action" and "arrogance" to keep me interested. I like guys who respect their peers and their position in the hockey world.
I am a fan of Orr, Gretzky, Believeau, and more recently Iginla and guys like that. I dislike guys like Avery. Avery fans love Ovechkin. That should say something about what type of person he is.
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deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2009 : 08:26:08
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Wow, more negative criticism by unrelated association . . . let's go through it point by point:
If you like the way Ovechkin plays . . .
1. You must be a Crosby hater.
2. You have no objectivity.
3. You're probably younger (and if you're younger, you think arrogance is good).
4. You love Avery as well (Avery fans love Ovechkin).
Amazing, in that I love the way Ovechkin plays, and the excitement he brings; but I also like Crosby (I have been fervently hoping Washington and Pittsburgh meet in the playoffs), I feel I am very objective, I am as old as you (and I don't think arrogance is cool), and I absolutely hate Avery.
I am also a huge fan of Gretzky, Orr and Iginla.
Any more false arguments for us?
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Canucks Man
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1547 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2009 : 08:55:06
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So, for all the people that our useing the shooting percentage arguement on ovechkin I ask you this: Would Kyle Wellwood actually have scored 101 goals if he had taken 528 shots?
CANUCKS RULE!!!
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2009 : 09:22:00
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I think I want to get into this rumble!!
Firstly, I am not going to talk about who is the best pure goal scorer. I agree that it's Ovechkin, but it's not a landslide. There are at least 10 guys in the league with the potential to be 50+ goal scorers and I would say 5 of those guys could (mean not as likely) be 60+ goal scorers. Ovechkin is the best, but not by much.
And I have to agree almost 100% with Fly. When Ovechkin went through his first two year, he was a breath of fresh air in the league. He played will a zest for the game. But for some reason through this year, it seems to me that he is playing with more of a zest for himself than the game. However, he is only 23 yrs old and perhaps, when he realizes that becoming a better team player will make him more successful that some of this garbage will go away.
Ultimately, the celebrations are more than what they need to be. Even the other day, when he scored perhaps the best goal of the year (beat 2 Rangers, rocked through the slot, kicked the puck to his stick and scored backhand on Lundqvist with another Ranger on his Back) he didn't have to do the kiss the glove and point to the crowd. They were already up 3-0. That's not emotion on the ice, it's showboating and self indulgence. If you watch the link below closely, you will see that he does the kiss the glove and point to the crowd thing with his back to his team mates, then he turns around and celebrates with his team.
It's self indulgent crap that I personally don't like. Ovechkin is slowly getting the reputation of being that guy who would rather look good and lose than look bad and win. It's all about him, and if that doesn't change, it will hurt him in the long run. |
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Guest4631
( )
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Posted - 04/26/2009 : 17:42:13
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if your talking about best sniper , you have to look at shooting percentage. a guy like vanek was a much more efficient sniper then ovechkin was this year. the number that scares me is that despite leading the league in goals with 56. he was only had a +8 rating on the season. that means he is on the ice for alot of other teams goals as well. and alot of those goals come as a result of him taking to many shots. he throws a lot of bad shots at the net that result in odd man rushes going back the other way. he is not the mvp this year for that reason.
his celebrations are over the top, n ppl would be outraged if a guy like avery was doing them. he is a very exciting player, but he also gets away with a like of charges n high hits that go unpunished because he is a star player
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fly4apuckguy
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
834 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2009 : 21:41:25
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quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Wow, more negative criticism by unrelated association . . . let's go through it point by point:
If you like the way Ovechkin plays . . .
1. You must be a Crosby hater.
2. You have no objectivity.
3. You're probably younger (and if you're younger, you think arrogance is good).
4. You love Avery as well (Avery fans love Ovechkin).
Amazing, in that I love the way Ovechkin plays, and the excitement he brings; but I also like Crosby (I have been fervently hoping Washington and Pittsburgh meet in the playoffs), I feel I am very objective, I am as old as you (and I don't think arrogance is cool), and I absolutely hate Avery.
I am also a huge fan of Gretzky, Orr and Iginla.
Any more false arguments for us?
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Of course there are exceptions to every rule. But here's a challenge: go to any of Ovechkin's or Crosby's Youtube videos where they have scored a nice goal or something and read the comments, then come back here and tell me I am making this stuff up.
My arguments, while not popular (or admittedly 100% accurate - more like 80%), are true in most cases.
NYR fans and Caps fans hate Crosby because he is the anti-Ovechkin and the anti-Avery. That is, he's respectful, quiet, humble, and doesn't drive cars 200 miles per hour down public roads and then brag about how he doesn't think about tomorrow, just about having fun today.
Guys like me that are opposed to that kind of thinking...well, we're old and don't know what's "good for the game". I've actually had people tell me Avery is better for the NHL than Crosby because he adds color, and gets the NHL in the news in the states.
Truth is, I knew what was good for the game before Ovechkin was even born. Before Russians (Soviets) played a single game in the NHL.
Congrats on liking the same guys I like, though. Good choices. |
Edited by - fly4apuckguy on 04/26/2009 21:45:16 |
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fly4apuckguy
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
834 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2009 : 21:42:41
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| sorry, double post |
Edited by - fly4apuckguy on 04/26/2009 21:43:12 |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2009 : 22:51:38
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I think the topic of who drives 200 miles an hour and who doesn't is irrelevant to this topic. Granted, I strongly agree that players (all players) in the NHL are role models regardless if they want to be or not. However, it has nothing to do with celebrating goals.
And I think we all have personal loses in our lives and we all have different reasons for our personal believes. However, neither of these things belong on a site talking about hockey.
Let's try to stay on and argue the topic, not each other on a personal level. |
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Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
546 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2009 : 06:22:20
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Sum it all up...
1) He's scores...alot!
2) Could he pass the puck more? Yes.
3) Goal Celebrations, when you score 50+...do what you want,
4) There are alot of players in the NHL that can score 50+ if they had Backstrom and Semin as linemates.
5) Is he streaky in the playoffs? Yes.
6) Leafs will win the cup...next year :) Habs choke...alot...
Are there any other topics from this forum? 
"Everytime you step out onto the ice, it's a clean slate, anyone can win" |
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Ovechkin's Goal Celebrations 
