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hockster
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
437 Posts |
 Posted - 06/10/2009 : 19:59:06
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quote:
Originally posted by lyall
Okay so over the last couple days i've done my homework, With the idea of Heatley coming to Edmonton, and also I heard that the NYI and TBL both want Hedman. Supposedly if NYI take Hedman #1 The TBL would be willing to make a trade and the Oil are trying to move up in the draft. Also the TBL do not want to spend more than $48M on Salary this year but would want a defenseman in exchange for their #2 pick. All that being said this is my updated 09/10 Oilers team:
Trade: Horcoff, Gilbert, Nillson, For Heatley.
Trade: Schremp, Staios, Grebeshkov, 10 overall 09 For 2nd Overall 09
Resign: Brodziak for 1M. Smid 1.5M. Strudwick 0.65M. Roloson 2M
Sign: Bouwmeester 6M
Heatley 7.5 - Gagner .875 - Hemsky 3.6 |11.975
Eberle .875 - Tavares .875 - Cogliano .85 |2.6
Penner 4.25 - O'Sullivan 4 - Pisani 2.5 |10.75
Moreau 1.75 - Brodziak 1 - Stortini .7 |3.45
Scratches: Macintyre .55
Jacques .55
Brule .765
Souray 5.5 - Visnovsky 7 |12.5
Bouwmeester 6 - Peckham .585 |6.585
Smid 1.5 - Strudwick .65 |2.25
Scratches: Chorney .735
Roloson 2
Deslauriers .7
Total salary: 55.41
Now I just hope Quinn and Renney can teach the kids to win face offs.
"I Was So Happy I Gave Kerry Fraser A Hug" -Bill Guerin
nillson is negative value in heatley its gotta be ganger or cogs
the tampa trade is horrible, they get the oilers fourth and fifth d and a bust of a prospect for tavares not a chance on either of the frotns.
also in the tampa one oilers would be dumb to move so much for one prospect who could be the next daigle. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 06/10/2009 : 21:37:19
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Here's the problem Joshua, I there are only two goalies on that list that I would take over Roloson(Backstrom and Vokoun). Both are signed longer term and both would cost a significant amount in a trade. Definately not worth it. Secondly, every other goalie you listed I would put on par (Miller, Bryzgalov) or below (all the other you listed).
So what's the smart move. Sign Roloson for $3ish per season for another 2 years when you know you have a reasonably high potential for Deslaurier to be a bonified, day to day starter at that time. Or do you switch directions all together and potentially cost yourself other assets to get your hands on one of the 2-3 reasonably available goalies that would only be a slight upgrade???
Realistically, the Oilers last year were a couple of top 6 forwards and a little consistancy from competing with anyone in the league. The goalie and the defense were not the problems then and are not the problems now. I am in no way saying Roloson is the best goalie out there. But, for what the Oilers need and what they have, signing him is a smart hockey move short term and give Deslaurier a chance to prove himself while having a back up. If Deslaurier sh*ts the bed, the team can go in a different direction next off season. This off season, it's scoring front line players. |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2009 : 19:04:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Here's the problem Joshua, I there are only two goalies on that list that I would take over Roloson(Backstrom and Vokoun). Both are signed longer term and both would cost a significant amount in a trade. Definately not worth it. Secondly, every other goalie you listed I would put on par (Miller, Bryzgalov) or below (all the other you listed).
So what's the smart move. Sign Roloson for $3ish per season for another 2 years when you know you have a reasonably high potential for Deslaurier to be a bonified, day to day starter at that time. Or do you switch directions all together and potentially cost yourself other assets to get your hands on one of the 2-3 reasonably available goalies that would only be a slight upgrade???
Realistically, the Oilers last year were a couple of top 6 forwards and a little consistancy from competing with anyone in the league. The goalie and the defense were not the problems then and are not the problems now. I am in no way saying Roloson is the best goalie out there. But, for what the Oilers need and what they have, signing him is a smart hockey move short term and give Deslaurier a chance to prove himself while having a back up. If Deslaurier sh*ts the bed, the team can go in a different direction next off season. This off season, it's scoring front line players.
My point was not to trash or get rid of Roli, just secure a proven #2. My list of goalies was my point against your statement about Roli being the best goalie from a non playoff team |
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Guest4364
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Posted - 06/14/2009 : 21:03:41
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Tampa line up
L1: Malone Stamkos St-louis
L2: JVR briere vrbata (or higgins)
L3: Pettinger Halpren Artukin
L4: Koci Craig Hall
D1 markov hedman
D2: Malik Mezaros
D3: Malichar Mihalik
Smith
ramo
tampa trades lecavalier to mtl for markov and some prospects and higgins rights?
Tampa gets briere and jvr for prospal and 2nd rnd pick? |
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Guest7281
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Posted - 06/15/2009 : 16:51:32
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Montreal Canadiens
L1: Kovalev-Lecavalier-Andrei Kostitsyn
L2:D'Agostini (Pacioretty)-Koivu-Tanguay
L3: Latandresse- Lapierre- Kostopolous
L4: Laraque- Chipchura- Sergei Kostitsyn
D: Markov Bouillon
Hamrlik Schneider
Komisarek Weber (Subban)
Price
Halak
Trade Higgins, Plekanec, Gorges plus 1st rd pick to Tampa for Lecavalier and throw in player. |
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Guest4803
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Posted - 06/15/2009 : 22:43:43
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Vancouver Canucks:
1st: Sedin Sedin Grabner
2nd :Demitra Kesler Hodgson
3rd: Larose Wellwood Burrows
4th: Rypien Johnson Hansen
D1: Neidermyer Mitchell
D2: Salo Edler
D3: Bieska O'Brien
Luongo
LaBarberra
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2009 : 06:16:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4803
Vancouver Canucks:
1st: Sedin Sedin Grabner
2nd :Demitra Kesler Hodgson
3rd: Larose Wellwood Burrows
4th: Rypien Johnson Hansen
D1: Neidermyer Mitchell
D2: Salo Edler
D3: Bieska O'Brien
Luongo
LaBarberra
If you put one Neidermayer on your roster you better find room for another. They go as a pair these days. You won't get one without the other.
I would actually like to see the Neidermayers in Vancouver. Short contracts to finish their careers at home, and if he is playing, Scott Neidermayer will be on the Olympic team as well. |
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Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
546 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2009 : 12:09:59
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Revised 09/10 Roster....again...I wish lol
Line1: Gaborik, Cammelleri, Duchene
Line2: Ponikarovsky, Grabovski, Blake
Line3: Stajan, Hagman, Tlusty
Line4: Di Domineco, Mitchell, Williams
D1: Kaberle, Bouwmeester
D2: Van Ryn, Kubina
D3: White, Schenn
G: Toskala
Gustavasson
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford |
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Guest7281
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Posted - 06/16/2009 : 15:58:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4803
Vancouver Canucks:
1st: Sedin Sedin Grabner
2nd :Demitra Kesler Hodgson
3rd: Larose Wellwood Burrows
4th: Rypien Johnson Hansen
D1: Neidermyer Mitchell
D2: Salo Edler
D3: Bieska O'Brien
Luongo
LaBarberra
If you put one Neidermayer on your roster you better find room for another. They go as a pair these days. You won't get one without the other.
I would actually like to see the Neidermayers in Vancouver. Short contracts to finish their careers at home, and if he is playing, Scott Neidermayer will be on the Olympic team as well.
3 center icemen on the second line? I say cut Wellwood free and have Hodgson center the 3rd line. He's probably not rdy for 2nd line minutes in the NHL |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 06/16/2009 : 17:02:26
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Bobby Ryan $0.765, Pronger $6.25 for Dany Heatly $8.0 and Fisher $4.0 resign Comrie for $2-$2.5 and Elliot for $1 million Anehiem has the cap space and is going to need to replace an aging grinder in Rob Niedermayer with speedy Fisher. Heatly and Getzlaf played well together at worlds. Ryan may have the upside that Heatly brings to a second line for Ottawa and Pronger in for good measure. Try to score a resigning with Havlat $4-$5.
Foligno, Spezza, Alfredson scoring 1
Havlat, Comrie, Ryan scoring 2
Ruttu, Kelly, Neil Grinder 1
Schubert, Winchester, Donovan Grinder 2
Bass, Zubov and Hennessy all signed relief centerman
Pronger, Phillips
Kuba, Volchenkov
Bell, Campoli
Jason Smith and Brian Lee 7th D-men, Schubert can switch when needed.
Leclair and Elliot for goal.
Find a buyer for Auld, maybe for some depth on wing. This team has to many signed Centerman need to convert few to winger to keep up with lines other team can throw. |
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Guest4188
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Posted - 06/17/2009 : 23:33:23
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Leafs sign Bouwmeester, trade kaberle, Pogge, Poni and ist round pick 2010 for lecavalier. Next year sign Nash and Boogard. With the first round pick 7th overall pick B.Schenn
Line 1:Nash-Lecavalier-B.Schenn
Line 2:Hagman-Grabo-Kulemin
Line 3:Tlusty-Mitchell-Blake
Line 4:???-???-Boogard
D1:Schenn-Bouwmeester
D2:Finger-Van Ryn
D3:???-??? |
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Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
546 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2009 : 11:06:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4188
Leafs sign Bouwmeester, trade kaberle, Pogge, Poni and ist round pick 2010 for lecavalier. Next year sign Nash and Boogard. With the first round pick 7th overall pick B.Schenn
Line 1:Nash-Lecavalier-B.Schenn
Line 2:Hagman-Grabo-Kulemin
Line 3:Tlusty-Mitchell-Blake
Line 4:???-???-Boogard
D1:Schenn-Bouwmeester
D2:Finger-Van Ryn
D3:???-???
I love your team because you have the Boogieman!! Boogard's a beast! I say bring back Belak too! Can you imagine skating down to boards and seeing Derek Boogard and Wade Belak!?!?
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford |
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Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
546 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2009 : 11:13:29
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Line 1: Marian Gaborik - Michael Cammalleri - Evander Kane
Line 2: Niklas Hagman - Mikhail Grabovski - Jason Blake
Line 3: Jiri Tlusty - John Mitchell- Chris DiDominico
Line 4: Wade Belak - Jeremy Williams - Kris Newbury
D1: Jay Bouwmeester - Tomas Kaberle
D2: Luke Schenn - Mike Van Ryn
D3: Ian White - Jonas Frogren
Starter: Toskala
Backup: Gustavsson
Bench: Derek Boogard, Matt Stajan, Boyd Devereaux, Jay Harrison, Anton Stralmen
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford |
Edited by - Rambo2305 on 06/18/2009 11:14:34 |
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MSC
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
601 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2009 : 12:46:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Rambo2305
Line 1: Marian Gaborik - Michael Cammalleri - Evander Kane
Line 2: Niklas Hagman - Mikhail Grabovski - Jason Blake
Line 3: Jiri Tlusty - John Mitchell- Chris DiDominico
Line 4: Wade Belak - Jeremy Williams - Kris Newbury
D1: Jay Bouwmeester - Tomas Kaberle
D2: Luke Schenn - Mike Van Ryn
D3: Ian White - Jonas Frogren
Starter: Toskala
Backup: Gustavsson
Bench: Derek Boogard, Matt Stajan, Boyd Devereaux, Jay Harrison, Anton Stralmen
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford
Seems reasonable...I see no reason why Toronto won't land 3 of the top free agents and draft someone who will be going top 5 all the while keeping Kaberle. Especially since free agents love going to teams with a losing history in the middle of a rebuild...yup, very reasonable. |
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2009 : 13:15:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Ok, this never won anything comment is annoying. Let's take a quick look at how many current NHL goalies have "won something" as a starter(this is off thet top and by something I mean the Cup):
Brodeur
Osgood
Ward
Khabibulin
Giguere
So, of the 30ish starting goalies in the league today, 5 have won the Cup. Does that mean the other 25 goalies are weak?? C'mon. Roloson was, head and shoulders, the best Oiler last season, as an aging, never won anything goalie. He was more successful than any goalie from teams who did not make the playoffs and equal to or better than some that did make the playoffs.
There is a reason everyone wants a top 10 goalie. It's because there are only 10 of them in the world! Roloson is as close to that as you can get without selling the farm. Above this, Roloson is better than any UFA goalie out there. So how do you expect the GM of the Oilers(yours truly) to go out and get a top 10 goalie without completely gutting my team.
I'll take my chances with Roloson in net. Before his injury in 05, he played brilliant playoff hockey and is coming off arguable his best season as a pro. It's wouldn't be a long or big dollar contract, but he would get 1-2 years at about $3 million/season. Definately fair market value and worth the money.
Beans, No offense bud, but out of the teams that did not make the Playoffs there is no way any team would take Roloson over Niklas Backstrom, Mike Smith, Ryan Miller, Tomas Vokoun, Pekka Rinne, Kari Lehtonen, Marty Turco, Jon Quick or Ilya Bryzgalov...
Roloson is at the end of his career, if anyone signs him it should be for just a 1 year contract...
You say Roloson is better than any goalie UFA out there???? what about Nikolai Khabibulin, Manny Fernandez, Martin Gerber, Martin Biron, Manny Legace, Ty Conklin, Craig Anderson, Scott Clemmensen... I'd sooner take any one of these UFA goaltenders over Roloson on any given day. |
Edited by - hanley6 on 06/19/2009 13:33:48 |
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Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
546 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2009 : 08:44:32
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quote:
Originally posted by hanley6
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Ok, this never won anything comment is annoying. Let's take a quick look at how many current NHL goalies have "won something" as a starter(this is off thet top and by something I mean the Cup):
Brodeur
Osgood
Ward
Khabibulin
Giguere
So, of the 30ish starting goalies in the league today, 5 have won the Cup. Does that mean the other 25 goalies are weak?? C'mon. Roloson was, head and shoulders, the best Oiler last season, as an aging, never won anything goalie. He was more successful than any goalie from teams who did not make the playoffs and equal to or better than some that did make the playoffs.
There is a reason everyone wants a top 10 goalie. It's because there are only 10 of them in the world! Roloson is as close to that as you can get without selling the farm. Above this, Roloson is better than any UFA goalie out there. So how do you expect the GM of the Oilers(yours truly) to go out and get a top 10 goalie without completely gutting my team.
I'll take my chances with Roloson in net. Before his injury in 05, he played brilliant playoff hockey and is coming off arguable his best season as a pro. It's wouldn't be a long or big dollar contract, but he would get 1-2 years at about $3 million/season. Definately fair market value and worth the money.
Beans, No offense bud, but out of the teams that did not make the Playoffs there is no way any team would take Roloson over Niklas Backstrom, Mike Smith, Ryan Miller, Tomas Vokoun, Pekka Rinne, Kari Lehtonen, Marty Turco, Jon Quick or Ilya Bryzgalov...
Roloson is at the end of his career, if anyone signs him it should be for just a 1 year contract...
You say Roloson is better than any goalie UFA out there???? what about Nikolai Khabibulin, Manny Fernandez, Martin Gerber, Martin Biron, Manny Legace, Ty Conklin, Craig Anderson, Scott Clemmensen... I'd sooner take any one of these UFA goaltenders over Roloson on any given day.
There is no way Rollie is the best goalie on the market this year. He's 39, he only had a solid season last year because it was his contract year. There are goalies 10 years younger that you can sign on a 2 or 3 year deal and they will put up better numbers.
Fernandez, Biron, Conklin and Clemmensen will probably be the most saught after, they are also the most underrated in this year's market, thank the media for that! :)
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford |
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Guest4803
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Posted - 06/22/2009 : 18:14:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest7281
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4803
Vancouver Canucks:
1st: Sedin Sedin Grabner
2nd :Demitra Kesler Hodgson
3rd: Larose Wellwood Burrows
4th: Rypien Johnson Hansen
D1: Neidermyer Mitchell
D2: Salo Edler
D3: Bieska O'Brien
Luongo
LaBarberra
If you put one Neidermayer on your roster you better find room for another. They go as a pair these days. You won't get one without the other.
I would actually like to see the Neidermayers in Vancouver. Short contracts to finish their careers at home, and if he is playing, Scott Neidermayer will be on the Olympic team as well.
3 center icemen on the second line? I say cut Wellwood free and have Hodgson center the 3rd line. He's probably not rdy for 2nd line minutes in the NHL
Ya but we had 3 centres on the 2nd line last year....keseler demitra sundin...and as far as both neidermayres being on the team i believe rob will retire rather then play another season therefore not on the canucks roster. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2009 : 21:32:38
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quote:
Fernandez, Biron, Conklin and Clemmensen will probably be the most saught after, they are also the most underrated in this year's market, thank the media for that! :)
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford
Really. Not a single goalie you listed was a starter last season. None of them had the season Roloson did last season and none have proven themselves as Roloson has in the past 4-5 seasons.
The only goalie that I would say is even with or even a step on on Roloson in their years UFA class is Khabibulin.
Roloson, who had a career year at 39, is a wicked signing if 1-2 years for $3 million or less. |
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Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
546 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2009 : 05:18:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
quote:
Fernandez, Biron, Conklin and Clemmensen will probably be the most saught after, they are also the most underrated in this year's market, thank the media for that! :)
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford
Really. Not a single goalie you listed was a starter last season. None of them had the season Roloson did last season and none have proven themselves as Roloson has in the past 4-5 seasons.
The only goalie that I would say is even with or even a step on on Roloson in their years UFA class is Khabibulin.
Roloson, who had a career year at 39, is a wicked signing if 1-2 years for $3 million or less.
Scott Clemmensen - 2008/2009 Season Stats
25W-13L-1OTL | 2.39 GAA | .917 S% | 2 SO
Manny Fernandez - 2008/2009 Season Stats
16W-8L-3OTL | 2.59 GAA | .910 S% | 1 SO
Martin Biron - 2008/2009 Season Stats
29W-19L-5OTL | 2.76 GAA | .915 S% | 2 SO
Ty Conklin - 2008/2009 Season Stats
25W-11L-2OTL | 2.51 GAA | .909 S% | 6 SO
Nikolai Khabibulin - 2008/2009 Season Stats
25W-8L-7OTL | 2.33 GAA | .919 S% | 3 SO
Their stats are very comparible to Khabibulin's. If Fernandez was the #1 in Boston, he would have easily put up 25-30 wins. All due respect to Roloson, he'll finish with an average record (20-16-5...ball parking it) next year with a GAA over 3.00 and a S% under .900. Then he'll call it a career in 2010...
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford |
Edited by - Rambo2305 on 06/25/2009 05:24:54 |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2009 : 10:24:29
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| I agree with Biron, Fernandez and Khabibulin. Clemmenson will get a chance to prove it wasn't the team in front of him this year, I hope. Conklin is an inigma. Dont know if this guy is for real. He keeps on getting the chance to be #1 goalie and has been traded by Edmonton, Pittsburg and Detroit probably cant afford to resign him. Dont know if this guy is as good as Roli. But he is younger and will sign for less. |
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Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
546 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2009 : 10:32:45
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quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
I agree with Biron, Fernandez and Khabibulin. Clemmenson will get a chance to prove it wasn't the team in front of him this year, I hope. Conklin is an inigma. Dont know if this guy is for real. He keeps on getting the chance to be #1 goalie and has been traded by Edmonton, Pittsburg and Detroit probably cant afford to resign him. Dont know if this guy is as good as Roli. But he is younger and will sign for less.
Agree....but for someone to say Rollie is the best goalie or most desired at 39? Can't be done lol...but Conklin is a 50/50 draw. Not sure which Ty will show up on a nightly basis, in Detroit last year, it was the good side most of the time lol
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2009 : 12:12:10
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All the goalies that are being brought up are NOT the #1 goalies on their team. They are NOT playing 60+ game a season that Roloson had last season. And they are ALL on teams that were not only play off teams but top 10 teams.
Put Roloson in any of those spots and his numbers (in my opinion) are as good or better than any of the goalies being discussed.
Any goalie other than Khabibulin on the list take a team the to Cup Finals??? Nope. I know a 39 yr old goalie who had a career last year that did.
Say what you will, I take Roloson in a 1-2 year contract over any of those other, unproven career back up goalies. Every day of the week. |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2009 : 12:54:57
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Maybe we should start a poll to discuss starting goalies or maybe something specific to Roloson. This discussion is littered with comments which either support or detract from your position Beans. I still maintain, sign a proven #2 and sign a short term contract with Roloson. Keep him motivated to continue to have career years as you said.
Do you think Edmonton has a snowballs chance in hell of signing a top 5 forward from free-agency this offseason? |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2009 : 15:44:43
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quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
Maybe we should start a poll to discuss starting goalies or maybe something specific to Roloson. This discussion is littered with comments which either support or detract from your position Beans. I still maintain, sign a proven #2 and sign a short term contract with Roloson. Keep him motivated to continue to have career years as you said.
Do you think Edmonton has a snowballs chance in hell of signing a top 5 forward from free-agency this offseason?
Firstly, I don't really understand what the Oilers signing a top 5 forward in the UFA market has to do with Roloson, but I will answer anyway. I say they have as good a chance as anyone else. With Quinn on board now, I think more players will look at Edmonton as a more attractive market. They have a very young team that does have talent top to bottom and are only missing a few pieces. They also have (until RimJim finally gets a team) the wealthiest owner in the league funding the squad. They are alot more appealing today then they have been in the past 3 years.
And here is my issue with you logic. What happens next year??? I mean, there isn't a never ending crop of UFA's that will just sign with your team (as a GM) every year. You also have to develop talent in the mean time. The Oilers have a very capable goalie in Jeff Druin-Deslauriers who needs to be groomed to be the #1 in Edmonton. Potentially as early as the 10/11 season. Why sign Roloson and a #2 goalie??? All you are doing is delaying the develpment of your future #1. And why not resign Roloson?? He's capable. The team already has chemistry with him. And most of all, his team believes in him. Why risk bringing in a different player and fighting through issue. There is no down side to signing Roloson to a short term, reasonable priced contract. No down side what so ever. |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 06/25/2009 : 17:34:28
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Since the topic of Edmonton goaltenders just wont go away here are the stats on Edmontons Future #1
http://oilers.nhl.com/team/app?page=PlayerDetail&playerId=8470074&service=page&tab=crs
So far this guy has played 10 games in total in the NHL with 4 wins and a goal against average of 3.33. This guy was drafted in 2002, thats 7 years ago, and really hasn't been hyped by anybody but you.
I said Roloson is a competant #1. Not a goalie I would build a franchise around, but a good solid starter. Why do you think Edmonton had to play Roloson 60 times last year. Because Deslauriers is not a proven #2, end of story. If your any team in the league except Calgary(idiots) you sign a backup who you trust to relieve games for your starter. And you most certainly dont rely on a 39 year old Goalie to play 60 plus games.
I am not responding to Roloson comments anymore this is not produtive.
By the way my last post was 2 questions, is that allowed? |
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Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
546 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2009 : 05:46:35
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quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
Since the topic of Edmonton goaltenders just wont go away here are the stats on Edmontons Future #1
http://oilers.nhl.com/team/app?page=PlayerDetail&playerId=8470074&service=page&tab=crs
So far this guy has played 10 games in total in the NHL with 4 wins and a goal against average of 3.33. This guy was drafted in 2002, thats 7 years ago, and really hasn't been hyped by anybody but you.
I said Roloson is a competant #1. Not a goalie I would build a franchise around, but a good solid starter. Why do you think Edmonton had to play Roloson 60 times last year. Because Deslauriers is not a proven #2, end of story. If your any team in the league except Calgary(idiots) you sign a backup who you trust to relieve games for your starter. And you most certainly dont rely on a 39 year old Goalie to play 60 plus games.
I am not responding to Roloson comments anymore this is not produtive.
By the way my last post was 2 questions, is that allowed?
Goalie of the future? Reminds me of Justin Pogge...
P.S. Pogge was a learning experience, nothing more. He won't be the #1 in Toronto anytime soon...
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2009 : 09:20:14
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Obviously, I am a complete moron yet again. To not see that the Oilers, who were in a playoff race basically from Christmas, played their #1 goalie in most of their games means that Jeff Drouin-Delariers is not a capable back up goalie. But, wait a sec. What about Minnesota??? Isn't Josh Harding there??? He's a capable back up yet Minnesota played Backstrom in 71 of the 82 games. Hold on a sec, what about Vancouver??? Sure, Luongo was injured so they had to go with their capable back ups in Labarba/Sanford. But once Luongo returned, he played in 35 of 37 games. and we all know that Calgary played Kipper nearly the entire season. One can also look to New York, Florida, and San Jose as teams with more than capable back ups who played their #1 goalie in 55+ games.
What's my point??? The comment that Roloson played all those games because Deslauriers is not a capable back up is weak to say the least. He did only play in 10 games, and 2 of those games were really poor outings. However, in his first four games, he was 4-0 with a .920 save % and a GAA less than 3. And it's not uncommon for a starting goalie to not be a starter until the age of 25 or more. Geez, the great Roberto Luongo was 23 before he was a day to day #1 goalie. Kipprusoff was 27. Not every goalie can be a Fleury, Lundqvist, or Mason who all started earlier than 25. It's not that uncommon at all if you do a little homework.
And I agree. I am done with this. Obviously, none of us are willing to sway our opinions. I agree that Roloson is not the best goalie out there. But at this time, based on his play last season as well as the future plan in net for the Oilers, the best option they have is to resign Roloson to a short term, middle of the road contract.
And I never said anything was wrong with asking 2 questions. I don't understand what the Oilers signing a top 5 forward has to do with signing Roloson. They are completely unrelated and have no impact on each other. |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2009 : 10:34:26
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Now we are talking Bean's. This one opens up a great debate. Who here thinks Calgary, San Jose, Minnesota and Vancouver went to the well to often and all were left with that what did we do wrong feeling come 1st/2nd round or earlier. I think you actually made my point.
Kipper looked crappy in half of the regular season games I watched and did not impress me in the playoffs. Another disapointment which in my opinion cost Keenan his job (deserved) for calling out Kipper.
It took Vancouver a little longer to faulter with Loungo, but tell me that last game was as good as he could perform.
I don't remember Nabokov stealing a post season win this year. That whole team didn't look like they had there s*** together.
I dont understand why Josh Harding doesn't get more playing time. Your right he is a proven goalie. But Minnesota is not ready for the post season.
Even Edmonton if they could have spelled off Roloson might have done a tad better with a backup they could trust in a pressure situation. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 06/26/2009 : 14:42:17
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OK Josua, what about NYR?? Lundqvist kept them in that series against Washington. Without him, I would have said it was a sweep. He played 70 games with a capable Valiquette on the bench. MA Fleury played most of the games for Pitt outside of an injury streak. What about that?? Marty Brodeur, with the exception of this year, plays 70+ games a year for the past decade.
I fail to see your point. Roloson was(is) the best goalie the Oilers had. He got most of the games. That's on par on every team in the league. |
Edited by - Beans15 on 06/27/2009 20:47:14 |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2009 : 13:19:08
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Lundvist (your spelling) is 13-14 years Rolosons junior and is considered by many to be one of the best goalies in the game. I do agree Valequette (your spelling) is an underappreciated in NY and would see significant playing time increase on most other teams.
For Brodeur, if he's available and you dont play him in the playoffs or as much as possible in the regular season and you lose, you also lose your job.
Fluery (your spelling) like you said was spelled off during his injuries and proved to everyone who was rooting for Pittsburg he deserved ever bit of playing time he got.
All three including Brodeur are younger and more highly thought of goalies on everyones list, than Roloson, except maybe yours.
By the way all of the teams you mentioned, except the morons in Calgary have a proven #2 goalie on there team. Which incedentally was my point in the first place.
( If your any team in the league except Calgary(idiots) you sign a backup who you trust to relieve games for your starter. And you most certainly dont rely on a 39 year old Goalie to play 60 plus games.)
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Edited by - JOSHUACANADA on 06/27/2009 13:20:35 |
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hockster
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
437 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2009 : 14:57:50
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Maybe they need a proven backup but there is only a handful of teams that have made the playoffs every year since the lockout. And the so called idiots are one of them. So too make the playoffs that much since the lockout they must have been doing something right. And can we remember they were in the cup final the year before the lockout. Which they one because a sure goal was disallowed which forced OT and they lost in OT in what would of been the deciding game.
So Sutter is a real idiot i guess.
From your picture you look like a sens fan, How was their playoff run this year, oh i forgot they didnt have one. They suck and have no chemistry, they are the idiots.
Iginla for 2010 team captain.
Flames for cup...eventually. |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2009 : 16:08:20
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Calgary seems to have good regular season success and If you look at their team, its far superior to the one that got them to the Cup final. So what is the difference why can't they win a playoff round. Every year, since the lockout I see Kipper crap the bed in the playoffs. He is a great goalie, so i figure he must be tired or he cant handle the pressure. Take your pick. Everybody, I know says Calgary needs a #2.
I am not biased against Calgary. I live in Red Deer and watch Calgary games regularly and will cheer for them if Ottawa isn't playing them. The team is Deep on forwards and D-men and have playoff experience. I always pick them at the start of the season to go far and/or place high in there division and conference. They never sign a backup they are willing to play. Thats is with the exception of Cujo 2 post seasons ago, in which he outperformed Kipper in the Playoff's.
No offense just the game as I see it. |
Edited by - JOSHUACANADA on 06/27/2009 16:21:04 |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2009 : 16:41:20
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You're a GM....Congrats!
You have a franchise goalie who can play 60 plus games. Do you sign a proven #2 for around a Million or carry a rookie or unheralded goalie propect on your team. Remember goalies like forwards and defense are prone to injury (see Vancouver, San Jose, NYI, Toronto and New Jersey season's 2008/2009) |
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2009 : 20:44:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Rambo2305
quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
I agree with Biron, Fernandez and Khabibulin. Clemmenson will get a chance to prove it wasn't the team in front of him this year, I hope. Conklin is an inigma. Dont know if this guy is for real. He keeps on getting the chance to be #1 goalie and has been traded by Edmonton, Pittsburg and Detroit probably cant afford to resign him. Dont know if this guy is as good as Roli. But he is younger and will sign for less.
Agree....but for someone to say Rollie is the best goalie or most desired at 39? Can't be done lol...but Conklin is a 50/50 draw. Not sure which Ty will show up on a nightly basis, in Detroit last year, it was the good side most of the time lol
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford
Conklin is a great goalie very consistent you already showed his stats from last year, he played awesome, he was the go to guy in the Regular season... The Only reason why he didn't play in the playoffs is because he has no Playoffs experience in the Playoffs and Osgood does, But in the Regular Season Conklin was Detroit's best goalie, not Osgood...
2007-08 Conklin they was excellent. Actually just as good as Fluery if not better...
2007-08
Conklin 33 games, 18 wins, 8 losses, 5 OTL, 2 shutouts, 1866 Minutes played, 2.51 GAA, .923 Save %
Fleury 35 games, 19 wins, 10 losses, 2 overtime losses, 4 shutouts, 1857 minutes played, 2.33 GAA, .921 Save %... pretty even but Fleury gets all the talk while I'd have to say the edge goes to Conklin as far as skilled in my eyes. Fleury played more games but Conklin played more minutes... I think this proves Conklin is a good goalie, either that or Fleury really isn't as good as everyone likes to believe he is and it doesn't matter what goalie you have in net in Pittsburgh because the team was/is stacked...
Either way, Conklin, Khabibulin, Biron, Fernandez, Gerber would all be better choices than Roloson...
Roloson isn't a solid number 1 goalie as I remember Garon took over and dominated Roloson in the 2007-08 season. This past season Roloson played a lot better than the previous year, but he is a very inconsistent goalie... Not sure when he will be good and when he will just out right stink
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Edited by - hanley6 on 06/27/2009 21:05:52 |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 06/27/2009 : 21:12:11
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quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
You're a GM....Congrats!
You have a franchise goalie who can play 60 plus games. Do you sign a proven #2 for around a Million or carry a rookie or unheralded goalie propect on your team. Remember goalies like forwards and defense are prone to injury (see Vancouver, San Jose, NYI, Toronto and New Jersey season's 2008/2009)
Personally, I carry the rookie. 60+ games for my #1 and if he's a franchise goalie, he will win close to 60% and get points in 70%. That means he wins 36 and ties in 6 more giving the team 78 points. More often than not, 95 points will at least give you a playoff spot. Meaning my back up playing in 22 games has to win only 40% of his games to get me to 98 points putting me middle of the pack. With a little luck, I might even be in the top 4 getting a little home ice. I like my chances with the rookie and I like the extra cash I have to spend somewhere else.
Maybe just a difference of opinion, but I take my chances and gamble. If I lose, I lose. I'm a hero or a goat. Give me Roloson and Deslaurier for a combined $4 million salary and I'll spend the extra cash on a front end player or on signing Kotalik. To me, that's smart.
And Hanley, again, let's look at things from all sides. Sure, Conklin had better numbers than Osgood. But obviously, the coach did not trust to put him in when in counted. Come to thing of it, no team put him in when in counted. Even when he backed up in Edmonton and Roloson got injured in the 1st game of the Cup Final, the Oil went with Markkanen. Pitt went with Fleury when he returned from injury. As you said, Osgood had a really weak year in 08/09 and they still when with him over Conklin. Does that not tell you something?? Really, take a look at this stats before he had that streak with Pitt last year. He was really weak. And having nice numbers on Detroit is not something that is very difficult. Put a Shooter Tutor in the net and it's got a GAA of less than 3. |
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lyall
PickupHockey Pro
360 Posts |
Posted - 06/28/2009 : 00:35:37
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quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
You're a GM....Congrats!
You have a franchise goalie who can play 60 plus games. Do you sign a proven #2 for around a Million or carry a rookie or unheralded goalie propect on your team. Remember goalies like forwards and defense are prone to injury (see Vancouver, San Jose, NYI, Toronto and New Jersey season's 2008/2009)
I have a question.
If you never let a rookie be your # 2, what happens to him? How does he become a #1?
Wait!!!!!
How did your proven #2 ever prove himself? How in the hell did he get to that spot and, for that matter, how did the starter get to that spot?
.......oh right. They did their time in the minors, became a rookie or unheralded goalies, earned the trust of the management/coaching staff and proved themselves.
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2009 : 11:24:30
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Ok, to be clear, my question is you have assembled a team you are confident will make a push for the playoffs. You have spent at or near the cap and have a few million remaining. November 1st your franchise goalies wife pulls his Johny the wrong way and he is expected to miss three months with a groin pull. What do you do. Do you play the unexperienced 10 game in with a losing record and a GAA of 3.33 goalie or do you immediately sign a veteran.
As to the question of how a goalie comes from a prosepct goalie and becomes a #1 goalie. In an opportunity such as a 10 game stint you impress the hell outta a team which already has a proven #1 and earn yourself playing time. (IE) Columbus, Florida and St louis last year.
What ends up happening is there is no injury or no significant time lost and a team leans on there #1 goalie because they are afraid to give him a night off. #2 cant earn playing time and #1, come playoff time, knows all of the weight is on his shoulders and folds or MVP's. Kipper hasn't repeated his MVP playoff performance and Roloson is not at that level in my opinion.
By the way I would play Deslaurier over Calgary's backup. That guy looks shell shocked ever time he gets an opportunity. The team even plays worse in front of him. Remember its also a phsycological advantage to have a veteran in net. |
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Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
546 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2009 : 12:15:32
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Post draft...
Line 1: Jason Blake - Michael Cammelleri - Marian Gaborik
Line 2: Alexie Ponikarovsky - Mikhail Grabovski - Nazam Kadri
Line 3: Travis Moen - Samuel Pahlson - Niklas Hagman
Line 4: Jiri Tlusty - Matt Stajan - Jeremy Williams
D1: Mike Van Ryn - Tomas Kaberle
D2: Luke Schenn - Pavel Kubina
D3: Ian White - Rob Scuderi
Starter: Toskala
Backup: Gustavsson
Scratches:
John Mitchell
Darryl Boyce
Tim Stapleton
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford |
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JOSHUACANADA
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2308 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2009 : 12:22:56
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| Rambo, another one line team? Hasn't worked so well for my team! Id rather see TO get the Sedin's and stand pat with 2 scoring lines. Wait to see positioning after Xmas and make a splash only if the team is placing well at that time. |
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Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
546 Posts |
Posted - 06/30/2009 : 12:29:00
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quote:
Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA
Rambo, another one line team? Hasn't worked so well for my team! Id rather see TO get the Sedin's and stand pat with 2 scoring lines. Wait to see positioning after Xmas and make a splash only if the team is placing well at that time.
Maybe move Gaborik to the 2nd line with Grabs, and put Poni up front on the 1st, add some size to the line...that could spread the scoring to 2 lines.
Still think my Energy line with Moen and Pahlson would be a fan fav. in Toronto...
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford |
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You're a GM....congrats! 
