Author |
Topic |
Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
546 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2009 : 12:42:55
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Poll Question:
Ok, so there have been a number of polls comparing the most hated team, best team, worst team etc. This one is simple, pitting Montreal vs. Toronto, the Habs vs. the Buds!
So...
Toronto Maple Leafs or Montreal Canadiens?
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Edited by - Rambo2305 on 07/14/2009 08:37:25
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Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
546 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2009 : 12:46:53
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Gotta go with my beloved Maple Leafs!
Hopefully this one can add to the rivalry between the fans too! Who doesn't love the atmosphere at a Leafs/Habs game at the Bell Centre or Air Canada Centre??
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford |
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Guest8241
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Posted - 06/17/2009 : 13:14:03
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Just like the Yanks and Red Sox!
Leafs vs. Habs!! GO LEAFS haha |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2009 : 07:53:03
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quote: Originally posted by Rambo2305
Gotta go with my beloved Maple Leafs!
Hopefully this one can add to the rivalry between the fans too! Who doesn't love the atmosphere at a Leafs/Habs game at the Bell Centre or Air Canada Centre??
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford
pretty sure their are 100 topics on this,,
Pasty |
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Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
546 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2009 : 10:27:30
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Returning the favour on the "topic talk" eh pasty? lol
Yea, but this one is specifically focused on these two teams, and not comparing them based on single season performance, but simply which do people prefer...so basically, which has more fans lol
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford |
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Pasty7
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2312 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2009 : 07:56:45
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quote: Originally posted by Rambo2305
Returning the favour on the "topic talk" eh pasty? lol
Yea, but this one is specifically focused on these two teams, and not comparing them based on single season performance, but simply which do people prefer...so basically, which has more fans lol
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford
it simply wouldn't be any fun if i let it slide
Pasty |
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Guest6765
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Posted - 07/09/2009 : 21:32:34
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Hm...the Buds...can't stand the ignorant habs fans.. |
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brentrock2
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
571 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2009 : 03:33:42
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I have to go with one of my least favorite team Toronto. I don't think Montreal will do very good this year, maybe around an average of 35-45 wins, that is about all because they are a small team but again Toronto I think will do good in the 09-10 season.
HABS RULE!! brentrock2 |
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PhillyFan12
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
399 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2009 : 04:39:09
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For this poll Rambo are you trying to say who our favourite team is or what team we think will do best?
PhillyFan12 Philly Rules!!! |
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Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
546 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2009 : 04:59:37
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Which team you support over the other, doesn't matter if you're a fan of anotehr team, just which of the two teams (Leafs or Habs) you like better...
Nothing to do with skill, standings etc...
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford |
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Guest8241
( )
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Posted - 07/10/2009 : 08:33:34
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That is why I went with the Buds!! :D:D |
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Axey
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
877 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2009 : 07:07:52
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Habs, no question.. but I noticed something last night, did anyone watch GSP vs. Alves? Did you hear the crowd? They had the Habs Olay chant on the go, it was great. He is a huge Habs fan and his trainer trains the other Georges (Laraque). Funny that Americans even know. |
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Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro
640 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2009 : 11:53:42
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[quote]Originally posted by Axey
Habs, no question.. but I noticed something last night, did anyone watch GSP vs. Alves? Did you hear the crowd? They had the Habs Olay chant on the go, it was great. He is a huge Habs fan and his trainer trains the other Georges (Laraque). Funny that Americans even know. [/quote I am not trying to be a prick or anything but the "Ole" chant does not belong to the Habs. The Hab fans stole it from the soccer teams in Europe. The "Ole" chant began with Real Madrid fans in the Spanish league. |
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Canucks Man
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1547 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2009 : 12:43:21
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quote: Originally posted by Porkchop73
[quote]Originally posted by Axey
Habs, no question.. but I noticed something last night, did anyone watch GSP vs. Alves? Did you hear the crowd? They had the Habs Olay chant on the go, it was great. He is a huge Habs fan and his trainer trains the other Georges (Laraque). Funny that Americans even know. [/quote I am not trying to be a prick or anything but the "Ole" chant does not belong to the Habs. The Hab fans stole it from the soccer teams in Europe. The "Ole" chant began with Real Madrid fans in the Spanish league.
I was at the Green Day concert in Vancouver last week and they even did the "olay" chant there. but I still go HABS all the way over leafs. I simply hate the Leafs.
CANUCKS RULE!!!
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brentrock2
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
571 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2009 : 15:35:47
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Sorry I made a mistake, I got to go with the Habs if you haven't notice yet.
HABS RULE!! brentrock2 |
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Odin
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
350 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2009 : 10:03:19
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quote: Originally posted by Porkchop73
[quote]Originally posted by Axey
Habs, no question.. but I noticed something last night, did anyone watch GSP vs. Alves? Did you hear the crowd? They had the Habs Olay chant on the go, it was great. He is a huge Habs fan and his trainer trains the other Georges (Laraque). Funny that Americans even know. [/quote I am not trying to be a prick or anything but the "Ole" chant does not belong to the Habs. The Hab fans stole it from the soccer teams in Europe. The "Ole" chant began with Real Madrid fans in the Spanish league.
Thanks for pointing out the obvious... |
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Odin
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
350 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2009 : 10:03:53
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GO HABS!!!
Like the Moen/Mara signing! |
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Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
546 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2009 : 11:50:23
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Oleeeee....ole, ole, ole...oooolllleeee...wait, sung by Mexican fans during a bull fight for decades haha..
Still like it best for soccer...
Back on topic, I wonder who the Habs can get with a top 10 pick next summer?
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford |
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Axey
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
877 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2009 : 12:27:41
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quote: Originally posted by Porkchop73
[quote]Originally posted by Axey
Habs, no question.. but I noticed something last night, did anyone watch GSP vs. Alves? Did you hear the crowd? They had the Habs Olay chant on the go, it was great. He is a huge Habs fan and his trainer trains the other Georges (Laraque). Funny that Americans even know. [/quote I am not trying to be a prick or anything but the "Ole" chant does not belong to the Habs. The Hab fans stole it from the soccer teams in Europe. The "Ole" chant began with Real Madrid fans in the Spanish league.
Aha I know this, but it was a direct relation to his Quebec nationality in this case, no question. I know it is used in many different sports and what not, and originated from soccer lol |
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Guest4948
( )
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Posted - 07/14/2009 : 01:06:25
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quote: Originally posted by Rambo2305
Oleeeee....ole, ole, ole...oooolllleeee...wait, sung by Mexican fans during a bull fight for decades haha..
Still like it best for soccer...
Back on topic, I wonder who the Habs can get with a top 10 pick next summer?
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford
Do they own the Leafs pick next year??? |
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brentrock2
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
571 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2009 : 03:22:15
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quote: Originally posted by Guest4948
quote: Originally posted by Rambo2305
Oleeeee....ole, ole, ole...oooolllleeee...wait, sung by Mexican fans during a bull fight for decades haha..
Still like it best for soccer...
Back on topic, I wonder who the Habs can get with a top 10 pick next summer?
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford
Well I would maybe think so but I wouldn't be so sure.
HABS RULE!! brentrock2
Do they own the Leafs pick next year???
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Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
546 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2009 : 05:00:15
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quote: Originally posted by Guest4948
quote: Originally posted by Rambo2305
Oleeeee....ole, ole, ole...oooolllleeee...wait, sung by Mexican fans during a bull fight for decades haha..
Still like it best for soccer...
Back on topic, I wonder who the Habs can get with a top 10 pick next summer?
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford
Do they own the Leafs pick next year???
Ahh....touche
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford |
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Guest8144
( )
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Posted - 07/14/2009 : 08:44:13
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quote: Originally posted by Guest4948
quote: Originally posted by Rambo2305
Oleeeee....ole, ole, ole...oooolllleeee...wait, sung by Mexican fans during a bull fight for decades haha..
Still like it best for soccer...
Back on topic, I wonder who the Habs can get with a top 10 pick next summer?
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford
Do they own the Leafs pick next year???
Montreal would have to have something worth a first round pick first... |
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Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
546 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2009 : 08:55:24
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quote: Originally posted by Guest8144
quote: Originally posted by Guest4948
quote: Originally posted by Rambo2305
Oleeeee....ole, ole, ole...oooolllleeee...wait, sung by Mexican fans during a bull fight for decades haha..
Still like it best for soccer...
Back on topic, I wonder who the Habs can get with a top 10 pick next summer?
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford
Do they own the Leafs pick next year???
Montreal would have to have something worth a first round pick first...
Maybe Cammalleri and Gomez...and Montreal will still pay their salaries
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2009 : 10:09:19
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I wouldnt trade a top 10 pick for Gomez or Cammalerri, I wouldnt trade it for anybody on the habs roster.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
546 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2009 : 10:12:49
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quote: Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
I wouldnt trade a top 10 pick for Gomez or Cammalerri, I wouldnt trade it for anybody on the habs roster.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
Even if you got them both, and the Habs paid their salary? :P
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford |
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Odin
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
350 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2009 : 11:43:54
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quote: Originally posted by Rambo2305
quote: Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
I wouldnt trade a top 10 pick for Gomez or Cammalerri, I wouldnt trade it for anybody on the habs roster.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
Even if you got them both, and the Habs paid their salary? :P
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford
Man, you guys are out to lunch. The Leafs will once again be looking up at the Habs in the standings. Don't you guys ever get fed up with that? They got younger and faster, and will put up more points than last year. Gomez is probably happy to be out of that UFA scrapyard known as the Rangers. He is going to thrive with his old linemate under the tutelage of Jacques Martin.
Man, you guys are out to lunch. The Leafs will once again be looking up at the Habs in the standings. Don't you guys ever get fed up with that? They got younger and faster, and will put up more points than last year. Gomez is probably happy to be out of that UFA scrapyard known as the Rangers. He is going to thrive with his old linemate under the tutelage of Jacques Martin. |
Edited by - Odin on 07/16/2009 13:13:23 |
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Guest0459
( )
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Posted - 07/15/2009 : 13:30:58
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I honestly don't know why I see all the hate for Gomez for me its the Scorecoff issue in Edmonton if your constantly playing big minutes on the PK PP and 5on5 its pretty hard unless your in your young and in your prime to put up ppg numbers. Must people forget but Gomez was a big reason they almost eliminated the Caps in the playoffs, sure a bit overpaid but for all the minutes he plays I sure wouldn`t mind him on my team any day. Heres to a 70-80 point season for him in Montreal. |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2009 : 11:22:57
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hey man, in 07 it was the habs looking up at the leafs! remember the habs blowing a 3 goal lead in the 3rd of the final game of the season. I sure do.
Gomez is ok, not great, just good. The entire east (save atlanta, florida, ottawa and the isles) are going to beat the crap out of montreal this year. The Leafs may not be too far ahead in the standings but everyone else will be. If you think that the habs can compete with Pitt, Philly, NYR, NJ, Boston, your crazy
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2009 : 11:27:03
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Better DEAD than RED.
Hockey fan first, Leafs fan second.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
546 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2009 : 11:43:04
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quote: Originally posted by slozo
Better DEAD than RED.
Hockey fan first, Leafs fan second.
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
Lovin the quote Slozo!...
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford |
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Odin
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
350 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2009 : 10:54:28
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quote: Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
hey man, in 07 it was the habs looking up at the leafs! remember the habs blowing a 3 goal lead in the 3rd of the final game of the season. I sure do.
Gomez is ok, not great, just good. The entire east (save atlanta, florida, ottawa and the isles) are going to beat the crap out of montreal this year. The Leafs may not be too far ahead in the standings but everyone else will be. If you think that the habs can compete with Pitt, Philly, NYR, NJ, Boston, your crazy
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
Montreal will indeed compete with all of the teams listed, and then some. Boston is in line for a serious meltdown, I can't believe you even listed the Rangers, Philly is overrated, but Jersey and Pit, maybe they go 1-2 (points). And Montreal WILL finish ahead of the Leafs.
If your team blew, then they must be Blue!
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Edited by - Odin on 07/20/2009 10:55:24 |
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Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
546 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2009 : 10:58:49
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quote: Originally posted by Odin
quote: Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
hey man, in 07 it was the habs looking up at the leafs! remember the habs blowing a 3 goal lead in the 3rd of the final game of the season. I sure do.
Gomez is ok, not great, just good. The entire east (save atlanta, florida, ottawa and the isles) are going to beat the crap out of montreal this year. The Leafs may not be too far ahead in the standings but everyone else will be. If you think that the habs can compete with Pitt, Philly, NYR, NJ, Boston, your crazy
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
Montreal will indeed compete with all of the teams listed, and then some. Boston is in line for a serious meltdown, I can't believe you even listed the Rangers, Philly is overrated, but Jersey and Pit, maybe they go 1-2 (points). And Montreal WILL finish ahead of the Leafs.
If your team blew, then they must be Blue!
Odin, were you that guy that was crying at the Bell Centre when the Habs lost? You seem to have it pretty good for an overrated team that will again, do nothing this year...
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford |
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Odin
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
350 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2009 : 11:00:26
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quote: Originally posted by Rambo2305
quote: Originally posted by Odin
quote: Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
hey man, in 07 it was the habs looking up at the leafs! remember the habs blowing a 3 goal lead in the 3rd of the final game of the season. I sure do.
Gomez is ok, not great, just good. The entire east (save atlanta, florida, ottawa and the isles) are going to beat the crap out of montreal this year. The Leafs may not be too far ahead in the standings but everyone else will be. If you think that the habs can compete with Pitt, Philly, NYR, NJ, Boston, your crazy
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
Montreal will indeed compete with all of the teams listed, and then some. Boston is in line for a serious meltdown, I can't believe you even listed the Rangers, Philly is overrated, but Jersey and Pit, maybe they go 1-2 (points). And Montreal WILL finish ahead of the Leafs.
If your team blew, then they must be Blue!
Odin, were you that guy that was crying at the Bell Centre when the Habs lost? You seem to have it pretty good for an overrated team that will again, do nothing this year...
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford
Oh, that hurt! The Habs finished 13th last year. Leafs?? No playoff. I'm sure their golfing skills are getting up there though. |
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Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
546 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2009 : 11:05:49
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quote: Originally posted by Odin
quote: Originally posted by Rambo2305
quote: Originally posted by Odin
quote: Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
hey man, in 07 it was the habs looking up at the leafs! remember the habs blowing a 3 goal lead in the 3rd of the final game of the season. I sure do.
Gomez is ok, not great, just good. The entire east (save atlanta, florida, ottawa and the isles) are going to beat the crap out of montreal this year. The Leafs may not be too far ahead in the standings but everyone else will be. If you think that the habs can compete with Pitt, Philly, NYR, NJ, Boston, your crazy
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
Montreal will indeed compete with all of the teams listed, and then some. Boston is in line for a serious meltdown, I can't believe you even listed the Rangers, Philly is overrated, but Jersey and Pit, maybe they go 1-2 (points). And Montreal WILL finish ahead of the Leafs.
If your team blew, then they must be Blue!
Odin, were you that guy that was crying at the Bell Centre when the Habs lost? You seem to have it pretty good for an overrated team that will again, do nothing this year...
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford
Oh, that hurt! The Habs finished 13th last year. Leafs?? No playoff. I'm sure their golfing skills are getting up there though.
I'll agree with Slozo and say you're that guy with no insight at all. Who talks sh't all day until someone talks back lol
Really look at the Habs team, 3 overpaid forwards on the top line that won't produce like they did last year. No one offensively after that. The Habs D is weak, to say the least. In net, they praise a guy that won't win 30 games this year.
So explain, how are they better then the Leafs?
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford |
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Guest8241
( )
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Posted - 07/20/2009 : 11:18:09
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Slozo and Rambo, good call on the lack on insight. Shotty judgments on Odins part. Very clouded, gotta look at the grey areas Odin, not just black and white. Or in this case...blue and white!!! :D:D |
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Odin
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
350 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2009 : 12:52:28
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quote: Originally posted by Guest8241
Slozo and Rambo, good call on the lack on insight. Shotty judgments on Odins part. Very clouded, gotta look at the grey areas Odin, not just black and white. Or in this case...blue and white!!! :D:D
Guest, what exalted insight are you offering? They just don't like the fact that I disagree with them. Too bad. |
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Odin
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
350 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2009 : 12:53:51
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And rambo, i couldn't give a damn who you agree with. I asked what the wager was, I am willing ti put my money where my mouth is, andI was met with deafening silence. That to me is what speaks volumes about what you really think about your team. |
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Odin
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
350 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2009 : 13:15:32
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quote: Originally posted by Odin
And rambo, i couldn't give a damn who you agree with. I asked what the wager was, I am willing ti put my money where my mouth is, andI was met with deafening silence. That to me is what speaks volumes about what you really think about your team.
You know, you Leafs fans seem to have a really hard time taking any sort of negative talk about your beloved leafs. I understand that there are many questions surroundng the Habs. With the kind of turnover that they've had, there has to be. But I do think people are pissing all over Gomez because of the 2 years with the Rangers. People seem to forget the kind of effect the Rangers seem to have on UFAs. But one of the main reasons I am confident is the new coach. I saw his act here in Ottawa for a few years, playoffs notwithstanding, and he is the single biggest reason why the Sens became credible. |
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Odin
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
350 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2009 : 13:30:26
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quote: Originally posted by Rambo2305
quote: Originally posted by Odin
quote: Originally posted by Rambo2305
quote: Originally posted by Odin
quote: Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
hey man, in 07 it was the habs looking up at the leafs! remember the habs blowing a 3 goal lead in the 3rd of the final game of the season. I sure do.
Gomez is ok, not great, just good. The entire east (save atlanta, florida, ottawa and the isles) are going to beat the crap out of montreal this year. The Leafs may not be too far ahead in the standings but everyone else will be. If you think that the habs can compete with Pitt, Philly, NYR, NJ, Boston, your crazy
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
Montreal will indeed compete with all of the teams listed, and then some. Boston is in line for a serious meltdown, I can't believe you even listed the Rangers, Philly is overrated, but Jersey and Pit, maybe they go 1-2 (points). And Montreal WILL finish ahead of the Leafs.
If your team blew, then they must be Blue!
Odin, were you that guy that was crying at the Bell Centre when the Habs lost? You seem to have it pretty good for an overrated team that will again, do nothing this year...
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford
Oh, that hurt! The Habs finished 13th last year. Leafs?? No playoff. I'm sure their golfing skills are getting up there though.
I'll agree with Slozo and say you're that guy with no insight at all. Who talks sh't all day until someone talks back lol
Really look at the Habs team, 3 overpaid forwards on the top line that won't produce like they did last year. No one offensively after that. The Habs D is weak, to say the least. In net, they praise a guy that won't win 30 games this year.
So explain, how are they better then the Leafs?
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford
No one after that??? The Kostitsyns and Plekanec?? Not a bad second line I would say. As long as they stay focused, and are now out of Kovalevs shadow, they will be fine. And we have one of the best checking lines in the league with Lapierre/Moen/Latendresse. Further, you guys are saying that the Habs are going to get beat up. That may be, but thats what we have George for. |
Edited by - Odin on 07/20/2009 13:31:18 |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 07/20/2009 : 14:15:54
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As impartial as I can be, I think a few of the Leafs fans are betting far more with their heart than with their head. I mean, I can appreciate that their defense has made vast improvements, but they have upgrade to very below average to slightly above average. They do not have an elite defensive core. I would say they are in the 12-16 range of defensive cores in the league. Speaking of forwards, nothing to really talk about there. Very, very below average. I would say one of the bottom 10 and possibly bottom 5 forward groups in the NHL on paper. Goaltending is another saving grace but still not elite.
Now, looking at Montreal on paper, I am in no way handing them the Cup, but you can look at their offensive group and say they are average or even slightly above average. And talk all you want about the size of their 1st line, they have 5-6 bonified 20+ goal a year players. A few of them having 40-50 goal potential. That is far more than any Leaf Forward. Their defense still have Markov who is hitting his prime and Hamrlik as well as adding Gill and Spacek would are very capable 3 and 4 defensemen. Throw in Gorges and Brisbois( I don't think either are leaving) and I would say that the Montreal defense is as good a Toronto if not better. Goaltending, the verdict is still out on Price and that might be the undoing. He might tank. Or, he plays average.
Any way I look at it, Montreal is a better team on paper than TO. Significantly better foward group, slightly better Defensive group, and only slightly worse potentially in goal. Coaching, toss a coin.
I would bet heavily on Montreal. I am starting to think they will shock some people this year. They better, they spent enough money. |
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