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Porkchop73
PickupHockey Pro
640 Posts |
 Posted - 07/20/2009 : 15:55:16
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My heart will always take the Leafs over the Habs. Since I was old enough to watch the games from my grandfathers lap I have been diehard blue and white. I own every leafs captain jersey since I was born. What I am saying here is I choose the Leafs handsdown everytime over the Habs because my ego, passion, and heart will never let it be different. Leafs til I die.
However, I put my stong desire aside and look at reality. Reality is the Habs have the better team right now and the better team for the past couple of years. I believe that Burke has done a good job, even a better job then Gainey, this offseason of improving his club but the fact remains the Leafs still have less talent in the lineup then the Habs have. I believe that the Leafs now have stronger future then the Habs but the Habs have a stronger immediate future.
I long for the Leafs/Habs rivalry again. I long for the two teams to be top of the league teams going head to head in the conference finals and game seven between the Leafs/Habs to go to the cup. I wish it were for the cup but it cannot be.
In a way as a Leaf fan I need the Habs to be a good team. In a way as a Leaf fan I like the Habs because I want the Leafs versus the Habs.
As a hockey fan there is no better games then Leafs versus the Habs at the ACC or the Centre du Molson. Those games are what going to a hockey game and being a hockey fan is all about. Those that have been know what I mean.
I can always look at reality but in the end I will always chant GO LEAFS GO! |
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Odin
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
350 Posts |
Posted - 07/21/2009 : 09:54:54
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Beans, I couldn't agree more.
Just a couple of things. Brisebois is a UFA and I don't think they have any plans to bring him back. Thats why on my list somewhere on these boards, I omitted him. I put Weber in his place, something like Markov/Spacek, Georges/Gill, Hamrlik/Weber, as he is the guy they started calling up last year. Then O'Byrne (yikes!) would be #7. They also have PK Subban, Mathieu Carle and Alex Henry kicking around, I'm not sure where they are going to end up. But they need to start letting one or two of these guys up with the big team.
I'm also licking my chops at the prospect of our power play. Its going to be fun to watch once again.
Porkchop, I appreciate the passion! I couldn't have said it better myself! |
Edited by - Odin on 07/21/2009 09:57:06 |
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Rambo2305
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
546 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2009 : 05:21:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Porkchop73
My heart will always take the Leafs over the Habs. Since I was old enough to watch the games from my grandfathers lap I have been diehard blue and white. I own every leafs captain jersey since I was born. What I am saying here is I choose the Leafs handsdown everytime over the Habs because my ego, passion, and heart will never let it be different. Leafs til I die.
However, I put my stong desire aside and look at reality. Reality is the Habs have the better team right now and the better team for the past couple of years. I believe that Burke has done a good job, even a better job then Gainey, this offseason of improving his club but the fact remains the Leafs still have less talent in the lineup then the Habs have. I believe that the Leafs now have stronger future then the Habs but the Habs have a stronger immediate future.
I long for the Leafs/Habs rivalry again. I long for the two teams to be top of the league teams going head to head in the conference finals and game seven between the Leafs/Habs to go to the cup. I wish it were for the cup but it cannot be.
In a way as a Leaf fan I need the Habs to be a good team. In a way as a Leaf fan I like the Habs because I want the Leafs versus the Habs.
As a hockey fan there is no better games then Leafs versus the Habs at the ACC or the Centre du Molson. Those games are what going to a hockey game and being a hockey fan is all about. Those that have been know what I mean.
I can always look at reality but in the end I will always chant GO LEAFS GO!
Much like the Yankees/Red Sox rivalry. Amazing atmosphere at the ACC or Bell Centre. Well put PorkChop...
One thing, alot of people are writing this Leafs team off as a sleeper at best. Actually look at the 4 lines we've got. No 100+ point scorer, but a balance of players that can get the job done. 4 goals from one player or 4 goals from 2-3 players still means you've got 4 on the board. With our D and netminders, 4, even 2 or 3 is enough to seal the deal.
Even over the last two years, the Leafs started strong, but tapered off with injuries on the blue line and in net. This year, we're deeper in both area's then we've been in years. This team will be a playoff team. 6th at best, but we'll be there. Whether we contend, not for at least another year.
"Most people spend time and energy going around problems, rather than trying to solve them" - Henry Ford |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2009 : 10:41:04
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Odin,
Pitt, Philly, NYR, NJ, and Boston will ALL finish ahead of the habs and the leafs. I guaran-damn-tee it. (I sure hope you dont dig up this post at the end of the year if im wrong lol).
Do you really think that Montreal currently has a team that could finish in the top 4 or 5 in the east? Ill be absolutley shocked if they finish in the top 4.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Guest9838
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Posted - 07/22/2009 : 10:53:38
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| Don't forget Washington |
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Odin
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
350 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2009 : 10:56:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
Odin,
Pitt, Philly, NYR, NJ, and Boston will ALL finish ahead of the habs and the leafs. I guaran-damn-tee it. (I sure hope you dont dig up this post at the end of the year if im wrong lol).
Do you really think that Montreal currently has a team that could finish in the top 4 or 5 in the east? Ill be absolutley shocked if they finish in the top 4.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
Sorry, don't agree. Boston is prime for a meltdown a la Habs over the past two seasons. The cracks are already forming. I think Philly is overrated, and Montreal was 3-1, the one being in OT, vs them last year. And the Rangers??? C'mon. I don't have any idea why anybody thinks this team is any good. They suck! They have a goalie, an overrated and overwhelmingly over paid defense. Is it because they signed porcelain man Gaborik? I can see the fun between him and Torts already, for the 40 games he'll manage to play.
And I'm sorry, upon further review of their forward lines, they have absolutely NOTHING that scares me. Drury? Gaborik? Maybe I'll toss is Zherdev. But I see Brandon Dubinsky is listed as their #1 center. Am I missing something? If not, then who in the world is that suppose to intimidate?
Thier a team with a goalie, and not much else. |
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Odin
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
350 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2009 : 10:57:08
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I will give you PIT and Jersey.
And yes, sorry, Washington has one hell of a team too! |
Edited by - Odin on 07/28/2009 11:25:52 |
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Guest4271
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Posted - 07/28/2009 : 12:18:35
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| What possible cracks are forming for a Boston meltdown. If anything their future looks brighter. The emergence of lucic and wheeler, and krecji. Not to mention a number 1 caliber goalie in the minors. The only negatve thing to hit this team this offseason is the Kessel situation and from what i here he may be more seriosly hurt than what was first thought. |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2009 : 10:42:21
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Boston is going to stomp the crap out of teams this year. I dont see ANY hint at a meltdown whatsoever. I think Chara is going to have the best season of his career.
I picked the Rangers to finish ahead of Montreal because Henrik Lundqvist really is just that damn good. He is amazing. All reports out of NY are that Gaboriks injury problems are finally a thing of the past and the only reason I beleive them is because I hear the same things coming from Minnesota. I think he will surprise alot of people this year and tear up the east. NY is lacking big time at centre ice, but I like the depth they have at forward overall. I just happen to beleive that Torts will have the rangers flying for a good chunk of the season, either that or they go down in an extremley entertaining ball of flames...
Dark Horse in the east: Tampa Bay
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Odin
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
350 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2009 : 10:18:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
Boston is going to stomp the crap out of teams this year. I dont see ANY hint at a meltdown whatsoever. I think Chara is going to have the best season of his career.
I picked the Rangers to finish ahead of Montreal because Henrik Lundqvist really is just that damn good. He is amazing. All reports out of NY are that Gaboriks injury problems are finally a thing of the past and the only reason I beleive them is because I hear the same things coming from Minnesota. I think he will surprise alot of people this year and tear up the east. NY is lacking big time at centre ice, but I like the depth they have at forward overall. I just happen to beleive that Torts will have the rangers flying for a good chunk of the season, either that or they go down in an extremley entertaining ball of flames...
Dark Horse in the east: Tampa Bay
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
The only problem is that he can't score goals, and neither can the rest of the Rangers. And now they let Zherdev go? LOL! And with that defense? They are going nowhere quick. And I have faith in the Bruins and Julien. I have faith they are going to have a letdown this year. Tampa? Really? With the complete and utter headcase that they have become? Two owners who can't talk to each other? Again, NJ, PIT and Washington will be top teams in the East, the rest is wide open and the Habs are well positioned to take advantage. |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2009 : 09:05:27
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sounds like your dreaming to me odin. Maybe Boston doesnt run away with the east again, but they are still an excellent hockey club. If they lose Kessel than that takes some shine off...but we shall see.
The NYR will be ok because they have Henrik Lundqvist. He is that good.
Tampa, with Rick Tocchet behind the bench to start the season, have some pretty impressive players. With st louis, lecavalier, Stamkos, malone, ohlund and hedman running show, they could be a decent club. Although I agree with you that they are a mess upstairs...
I would put Pit, Wash, Philly, NJ, and Bos ahead of Montreal without thinking twice. That leaves the habs and leafs to fight with buf, ott, fla, NYR and car for the 8th spot... mehh... things always shakedown a little odd by the end of the year. So who knows...
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
Edited by - Matt_Roberts85 on 08/06/2009 09:10:15 |
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Odin
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
350 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2009 : 11:55:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
sounds like your dreaming to me odin. Maybe Boston doesnt run away with the east again, but they are still an excellent hockey club. If they lose Kessel than that takes some shine off...but we shall see.
The NYR will be ok because they have Henrik Lundqvist. He is that good.
Tampa, with Rick Tocchet behind the bench to start the season, have some pretty impressive players. With st louis, lecavalier, Stamkos, malone, ohlund and hedman running show, they could be a decent club. Although I agree with you that they are a mess upstairs...
I would put Pit, Wash, Philly, NJ, and Bos ahead of Montreal without thinking twice. That leaves the habs and leafs to fight with buf, ott, fla, NYR and car for the 8th spot... mehh... things always shakedown a little odd by the end of the year. So who knows...
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
And it sounds to me like you're doing the exact same thing. Lundquist can't score goals, and he can't make every save. So they lose a bunch 1-0. They STILL lose. Lundquist is great, but he isn't perfect, and that is what the Rangers will need to even have a chance. They have NO firepower and precious little defence. You could be right about Boston, they DO have talent, the problem is: its Boston. Their consistency over the last half century is decidedly lacking. And Montreal OWNED Philly last year, even with all the issues they were having. Period!
I think you are putting just a little too much faith in Tocchet. That team will be moved (or once again sold) before they make any significant noise. We do agree on three teams though. |
Edited by - Odin on 08/06/2009 11:58:48 |
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Odin
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
350 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2009 : 12:04:41
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| Outside of goaltending, I actually think the rangers are worse than the leafs. |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2009 : 12:43:56
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Ok.... NYR with no offense? Well, they do have Marian Gaborik, who supposedly has a clean bill of health. The rangers have had trouble scoring since Jagr left yet they still seem to make the playoffs. Tortorella is a run'n'gun kind of guy and if anyone can get a team to score a little more its him. I expect Higgins to score a little more with a more prominent role on broadway. Anyway, i wont argue for the rangers to death, i hate the rangers....i just think somehow they'll be in the top 8 just like they have every year since the lockout.
I think they win more 2-1 games than they lose 1-0.
Also, it doesnt matter if Montreal owned philly last year, its about who has more points at the end of the year. Philly is f***in stacked with A players. Montreal is not.
TB will probably be a basement dweller...i cant argue with you on that, i just had them as a darkhorse because any team with Lecavalier, St Loius, Stamkos and Hedman on it should be good...
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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redneck76ca
Rookie
186 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2009 : 18:10:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
I wouldnt trade a top 10 pick for Gomez or Cammalerri, I wouldnt trade it for anybody on the habs roster.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
You're saying that you wouldn't give up a top 10 pick to get Markov or Cammi or Price? I find that ridiculous. Shia-t, I think that Chicago is going to give up their 1st rder to get Halak. I realise it low pick but...
In your opinion, who on the Maple Leafs is worth a Top 10 pick?
Truthfully, I feel that Kaberle and Schenn are the only Leafs that could go for a 1st round pick. |
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Odin
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
350 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2009 : 10:26:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
Ok.... NYR with no offense? Well, they do have Marian Gaborik, who supposedly has a clean bill of health. The rangers have had trouble scoring since Jagr left yet they still seem to make the playoffs. Tortorella is a run'n'gun kind of guy and if anyone can get a team to score a little more its him. I expect Higgins to score a little more with a more prominent role on broadway. Anyway, i wont argue for the rangers to death, i hate the rangers....i just think somehow they'll be in the top 8 just like they have every year since the lockout.
I think they win more 2-1 games than they lose 1-0.
Also, it doesnt matter if Montreal owned philly last year, its about who has more points at the end of the year. Philly is f***in stacked with A players. Montreal is not.
TB will probably be a basement dweller...i cant argue with you on that, i just had them as a darkhorse because any team with Lecavalier, St Loius, Stamkos and Hedman on it should be good...
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
Gaborik has a clean bill of health in the offseason??? LMFAO!! who cares. If that is what you're hanging your hat on, you're just grasping. Further, NY is sooo good to UFA's isn't it? Higgins I figure will be about the same. Solid and steady, if unspectacular.
It DOES matter if Montreal owned Philly, it gets into their heads. Besides, with all their turmoil last year, the Habs only finished 3 games behind Philly. Not that big. Philly does have a good roster, but they have the ecxact opposite issue to the Rangers: no goaltending. Mark my words, Emery WILL cost them games. |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2009 : 13:28:05
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ok ok relax. NYR and Philly suck compared to the mighty habs.
and your damn right i wouldnt trade a top 10 pick for markov, cammi or price. a top 10 pick has franchise player potential, cammi and markov are not franchise players and price seems pretty sketchy at times... id consider price if i was desperate for a goalie and he has a solid year this year.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Odin
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
350 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2009 : 08:11:22
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I didn't say Philly wasn't good. They have a great team, I just don't think they are head and shoulders above the Habs as you have been suggesting.
Another way to look at that trade scenario: Markov and Cammi are proven commodities, the top 10 pick, as you say, has franchise player "potential." Its a crapshoot.
Is Kaberle worth a pick in that range? |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2009 : 10:27:24
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I dont think Kaberle is worth a top 10 pick.
I know the draft is a crapshoot but ive learned this lesson the hard way as a leafs fan. Trading your 1st round picks for established veterans only leads to years of drug and alchohol abuse and thousands of dollars spent on therapy. Not to mention countless hours surfing the net looking for justification for being a leafs fan lol.
I think Philly is WAY better than Montreal. IMO.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Odin
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
350 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2009 : 09:07:17
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You had me laughing until you had to get that last dig in there. If Philly is WAAY better than the Habs, why did the Habs own them?
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2009 : 10:43:54
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hey man, it wasnt a dig at you. I watched a few of the Habs vs Philly games last year, and youre right, they did own them. But that was last year. 2 years ago Philly destroyed Montreal in the playoffs. That was then this is now.
2 words. Chris Pronger.
Besides that, they also have Mike Richards and Jeff Carter (both of whom should be even better this year), Simon Gagne, Claude Giroux (who will have a breakout season in a big way), Timmonen, Cobourn, plus a host of tough dudes. The flyers are stacked. I wouldnt be surprised if they win the east, I think they are that good. The only thing going against them is the big question mark in goal. Emery did take a talented Sens team to the finals, this philly team may be perfect for him.
Again, this is just my opinion, I can see why if you dont agree with me.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Guest2332
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Posted - 08/13/2009 : 11:59:03
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Also, their 3rd liner center is Daniel Brière(not to bad). The only reason phily lost in the playoff was the penalty. I watch every pitt-phily games and in every of them phily has the upper hand but loose because of bad penalty(thats how they always do anyway).
Philly got a better team than the habs, no doubt about that. The only interogation is the goalie, but is't it the same with Price? |
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Guest9235
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Posted - 08/13/2009 : 13:43:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Odin
quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
sounds like your dreaming to me odin. Maybe Boston doesnt run away with the east again, but they are still an excellent hockey club. If they lose Kessel than that takes some shine off...but we shall see.
The NYR will be ok because they have Henrik Lundqvist. He is that good.
Tampa, with Rick Tocchet behind the bench to start the season, have some pretty impressive players. With st louis, lecavalier, Stamkos, malone, ohlund and hedman running show, they could be a decent club. Although I agree with you that they are a mess upstairs...
I would put Pit, Wash, Philly, NJ, and Bos ahead of Montreal without thinking twice. That leaves the habs and leafs to fight with buf, ott, fla, NYR and car for the 8th spot... mehh... things always shakedown a little odd by the end of the year. So who knows...
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
And it sounds to me like you're doing the exact same thing. Lundquist can't score goals, and he can't make every save. So they lose a bunch 1-0. They STILL lose. Lundquist is great, but he isn't perfect, and that is what the Rangers will need to even have a chance. They have NO firepower and precious little defence. You could be right about Boston, they DO have talent, the problem is: its Boston. Their consistency over the last half century is decidedly lacking. And Montreal OWNED Philly last year, even with all the issues they were having. Period!
I think you are putting just a little too much faith in Tocchet. That team will be moved (or once again sold) before they make any significant noise. We do agree on three teams though.
Im guessing you watched the playoffs last year, so you saw what Lundquist could do. He almost stole the series away from Washington, when they shouldve been swept. If Lunquist doesnt get hurt, the Rangers finish better than the Leafs and probably the Habs. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2009 : 01:46:59
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Guest 9235, i think you missed some sarcasm? No? Ah, whatever...
Montreal definitely had Philly's number last year, but over the years (at least in the past 10)i'd say it was the other way around? I haven't checked the stats but i swear once Leclair was traded, Philly always seemed to beat the Habs? But, who cares really? Who's better this year? Well, like the Habs Leafs debate, i'm a neutral figure and i'd put my betting dollars on the Flyers. Another team who i'm not fond of, but this is my betting dollars we're talking about! If the Flyers and Habs face off, i'm rooting for the Habs! BUT, my money's on the Flyers!
I learned at a young age.... Bet with your wallet, not with your heart!
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redneck76ca
Rookie
186 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2009 : 12:50:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest9235
quote:
Originally posted by Odin
quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
sounds like your dreaming to me odin. Maybe Boston doesnt run away with the east again, but they are still an excellent hockey club. If they lose Kessel than that takes some shine off...but we shall see.
The NYR will be ok because they have Henrik Lundqvist. He is that good.
Tampa, with Rick Tocchet behind the bench to start the season, have some pretty impressive players. With st louis, lecavalier, Stamkos, malone, ohlund and hedman running show, they could be a decent club. Although I agree with you that they are a mess upstairs...
I would put Pit, Wash, Philly, NJ, and Bos ahead of Montreal without thinking twice. That leaves the habs and leafs to fight with buf, ott, fla, NYR and car for the 8th spot... mehh... things always shakedown a little odd by the end of the year. So who knows...
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
And it sounds to me like you're doing the exact same thing. Lundquist can't score goals, and he can't make every save. So they lose a bunch 1-0. They STILL lose. Lundquist is great, but he isn't perfect, and that is what the Rangers will need to even have a chance. They have NO firepower and precious little defence. You could be right about Boston, they DO have talent, the problem is: its Boston. Their consistency over the last half century is decidedly lacking. And Montreal OWNED Philly last year, even with all the issues they were having. Period!
I think you are putting just a little too much faith in Tocchet. That team will be moved (or once again sold) before they make any significant noise. We do agree on three teams though.
Im guessing you watched the playoffs last year, so you saw what Lundquist could do. He almost stole the series away from Washington, when they shouldve been swept. If Lunquist doesnt get hurt, the Rangers finish better than the Leafs and probably the Habs.
There is no doubt that the Rangers will finish higher in the standing than the Habs, or atleast they should if Gabby is healthy. That being said, who knows? |
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Guest6035
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Posted - 08/17/2009 : 16:00:14
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| well, guess I'm just blind because I see them missing the playoffs. The Rangers that is. They just don't have much firepower or much defense. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2009 : 23:13:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest6035
well, guess I'm just blind because I see them missing the playoffs. The Rangers that is. They just don't have much firepower or much defense.
I kinda see where you're coming from. The more i look at their roster, the less impressed i am. It's Lundquist, Drury and Gaborik (who'd better stay healthy for them to have a shot?) and not much else? |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2009 : 07:39:57
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Alright, here we go again. No credit, no props, no nothing to Glen Sather. People are missing a few things. Firstly, no defense?? Girardi, Staal, Redden, and Roszival are a very stable and capable top 4 defensive core. That's group is as good as the Leafs top 4 and nearly as good as the Canadians Top 4. They will more than likely be going with youth for the other 2 spots as they are up against the cap, and that might be a small knick(pardon the pun) in the armour.
Now, let's move into the forwards that are "basically Gaborik and Drury and not much else." Sure, there are not huge names there. But lets be realistic. Avery, take away all the off ice crap, is still the games best instigator. He's uber fast and he has the skills to play top 6 forward. People forget about Prospal, who has 6 of his last 8 seasons over 50 points and is a 20 goal guy. Kotalik is a 20 goal guy. Higgins has the potential to improve and we all watched him have 3 of his first 4 seasons with over 20 goals. Callahan is also coming off a 20 goal season. Include in Drury and Gaborik and there are 7 very limitimate potential 20+ goal scorers in the Ranger line up. Voros and Brashear bring size and toughness. Arnason is a few seasons removed from throw in 50 pts a season but he still has some chops and can definately play 3rd line centre. Enver Lisin is one of the fastest players in the NHL today. And this does not include any prospects that might have a great camp and get onto the big squad.
Plus, you have all world goalie Henrik Lundqvist in the net.
Seriously, just because they are not household names takes nothing away from the squad in New York. They will be better than last year, better than most expect, and will compete in the top 5 teams in the East. They will have sound defense and will score by committee with Gaborik being the head of that committee. Anyone remember who their coach is??? Remember, he won the Stanley Cup pretty recently with a team that had "Lecavalier and St. Louis and not much else."
Sorry to get off topic, but c'mon hockey fans. Use your noggin's a little and look deeper. If I told you before the season started that your team had an all world goalie, a capable top 4 defensive group, 7 potential 20 goal scorers and the player with the highest PPG average over the past 3 season, you would be doing backflips at your chances.
Why are the Rangers so weak??
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2009 : 07:46:43
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i agree beans, you said what ive been tryin to say.... the rangers will make the playoffs and have a better roster than people are giving them credit for.
*note* i still cant fathom how anyone thinks Montreal has a better top 4 than the leafs do now... they have 2 guys that montreal were trying to get ahead of the guys they ended up getting...
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2009 : 08:04:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
i agree beans, you said what ive been tryin to say.... the rangers will make the playoffs and have a better roster than people are giving them credit for.
*note* i still cant fathom how anyone thinks Montreal has a better top 4 than the leafs do now... they have 2 guys that montreal were trying to get ahead of the guys they ended up getting...
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
I will quickly answer this.
Simply put.
Markov is better than Kaberle
Hamrlik is better than Komisarek
Spacek is better than Beauchemin
Schenn is going to be a great, great player but still makes a ton of rookie mistakes. (74 Turnovers last season, 20 more than the next worst Leaf Defensemen and one of the 20 worst in all of the NHL. Also, 2nd to worst Leaf in +/-)
Top 4, straight up, I take Montreal for this season without question. If you are talking long term, the TO group is younger and will get better. However, at least for this season coming, Montreal does have the top 4 defensively over TO. |
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Guest2622
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Posted - 08/18/2009 : 09:31:57
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Sorry Beans,
Just because I don't agree with you, doesn't mean I'm not using my noggin. Thats a little over the top.
Again, their 'd' is completely overrated and overpaid. Gaborik goes down, which, like it or lump it is very likely, and they are screwed. Avery is an overrated dolt who can cost you a game just as likely as win it. Many of those players who you claim are legit 20 goal scorers can just as likely get you 10. Vying for a top 5 spot? Just don't see it. They MAY scrape in, but I see them just as likely as missing them altogether. And if Lundquist goes down?
Tortorella won the cup with Lecavalier and St. Louis and not much else? Are you kidding me? Richards, Khabibulan, Boyle, Kubina, Sydor, Stillman, Taylor, Andreychuk, not to mention a few others. That roster was pretty stacked. And they had some great roleplayers. |
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Odin
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
350 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2009 : 09:33:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest2622
Sorry for the repost, hadn't logged in.
Sorry Beans,
Just because I don't agree with you, doesn't mean I'm not using my noggin. Thats a little over the top.
Again, their 'd' is completely overrated and overpaid. Gaborik goes down, which, like it or lump it is very likely, and they are screwed. Avery is an overrated dolt who can cost you a game just as likely as win it. Many of those players who you claim are legit 20 goal scorers can just as likely get you 10. Vying for a top 5 spot? Just don't see it. They MAY scrape in, but I see them just as likely as missing them altogether. And if Lundquist goes down?
Tortorella won the cup with Lecavalier and St. Louis and not much else? Are you kidding me? Richards, Khabibulan, Boyle, Kubina, Sydor, Stillman, Taylor, Andreychuk, not to mention a few others. That roster was pretty stacked. And they had some great roleplayers.
Sorry Beans,
Just because I don't agree with you, doesn't mean I'm not using my noggin. Thats a little over the top.
Again, their 'd' is completely overrated and overpaid. Gaborik goes down, which, like it or lump it is very likely, and they are screwed. Avery is an overrated dolt who can cost you a game just as likely as win it. Many of those players who you claim are legit 20 goal scorers can just as likely get you 10. Vying for a top 5 spot? Just don't see it. They MAY scrape in, but I see them just as likely as missing them altogether. And if Lundquist goes down?
Tortorella won the cup with Lecavalier and St. Louis and not much else? Are you kidding me? Richards, Khabibulan, Boyle, Kubina, Sydor, Stillman, Taylor, Andreychuk, not to mention a few others. That roster was pretty stacked. And they had some great roleplayers. |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2009 : 10:47:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
i agree beans, you said what ive been tryin to say.... the rangers will make the playoffs and have a better roster than people are giving them credit for.
*note* i still cant fathom how anyone thinks Montreal has a better top 4 than the leafs do now... they have 2 guys that montreal were trying to get ahead of the guys they ended up getting...
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
I will quickly answer this.
Simply put.
Markov is better than Kaberle
Hamrlik is better than Komisarek
Spacek is better than Beauchemin
Schenn is going to be a great, great player but still makes a ton of rookie mistakes. (74 Turnovers last season, 20 more than the next worst Leaf Defensemen and one of the 20 worst in all of the NHL. Also, 2nd to worst Leaf in +/-)
Top 4, straight up, I take Montreal for this season without question. If you are talking long term, the TO group is younger and will get better. However, at least for this season coming, Montreal does have the top 4 defensively over TO.
Kaberle and Markov imo, are a wash. Markov probbaly gets a slight edge in overall ability, but both are soft, puck moving defenceman who excel on the breakout and on the PP.I think both guys contribute equally to their clubs.
Hamrlik is old, slow and injury prone. He had a bad year last season and I cannot see him improving much, if at all... Id take Komisarek every day of the week. He may not have the prescence on the PP like Hamrlik does, but he will block a ton more shots and throw way more hits, while still providing a solid prescence in his own zone.
The only reason Montreal signed Spacek is becasue they couldnt get Beauchimin signed. (Maybe im way wrong on that, but im pretty sure that Beauchimen was their 1st choice...) Francois was hurt most of last year but the way he has played in the playoffs the last couple of seasons has been unreal. Spacek is a good player no doubt, and his offensive upside is clearly better than beauchimens, but when it comes to your own zone, id take beauchimen. I guess i give this one to spacek... he is a better player than beauchimen right now.
Schenn has divine powers the likes of which no montreal d can ever hope to attain. ^_^
I guess it is closer than I think, but I still would take Kaberle, Komisarek, Beauchimen and Schenn over Markov, Hamrlik, Spacek and whoever....
blahhhhhh whatever, drop the puck already
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Guest4271
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Posted - 08/18/2009 : 12:06:07
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| Where the leafs have the advantage is in positions 5,6,and 7. White and Van ryan are diffinately better than Mara and that big pylon Gill. I know come playoffs you usually play the guts out of your top 5 defencemen but regular season most teams dress 7. So in my opinion, overall advantage Toronto. |
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Odin
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
350 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2009 : 12:21:12
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| White and Van ryn are better than Mara? Sorry, just don't see it. Further, you're forgetting about Weber, plus people seem to have forgotten about Georges, who will be on the second pairing with I'm predicting Spacek. I see Hamrlik and Gill as the third. Not a bad third pair I would think. So, they need to find a spot for Weber, and we're not even talking about Subban, Henry, Carle or O'Byrne yet. I like the depth! |
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redneck76ca
Rookie
186 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2009 : 12:24:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4271
Where the leafs have the advantage is in positions 5,6,and 7. White and Van ryan are diffinately better than Mara and that big pylon Gill. I know come playoffs you usually play the guts out of your top 5 defencemen but regular season most teams dress 7. So in my opinion, overall advantage Toronto.
Most teams don't dress 7 dman for a game. Where you got that I don't know. Rarely does a team dress 7 dmen as it means that they would not have 4 full forward lines. Maybe look into what you are saying before you say it? Just because White plays d and forward doesn't mean he is dressed as a dman when he is in the lineup. If you can show me some teams that regularly dress 7 dmen I will eat my words but I think that most people on this forum would agree that this rarely happens.
Yes, the Leafs depth on d is better but how one can say that Markov is soft hasn't watched him play much in the last 3 years. He is not even close to being soft, although I agree that Kaberle is. Personally, I think that the defensive corps for the Habs and Laffs (typo that my pro-Habs computer refuses to fix)are very even but I would take the offensive upside of Markov, Hamrlik and Spacek over Kaberle and Beauchemin. The Leafs have a nicely balanced defensive defence but are not all that rounded. (Here is your chance to knock Gill and O'Byrne, and this is where I would counter with Komi being only a defensive dman with very little offensive upside). |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2009 : 12:55:08
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Since i am a leafs fan, I see the habs alot. Markov is soft. Not soft serve ice cream soft, but he is definatley more on the soft side than the hard side. I mean, Grabovski f'd him up last year, C'mon!!
All kidding aside, i think the two teams have deep Defence corps that most teams would love to have.
Would anyone put Toronto or Montreals D in the top 5 in the NHL? Do they both make the top 10?
Who has the BEST D in the NHL?
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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redneck76ca
Rookie
186 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2009 : 13:51:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
Since i am a leafs fan, I see the habs alot. Markov is soft. Not soft serve ice cream soft, but he is definatley more on the soft side than the hard side. I mean, Grabovski f'd him up last year, C'mon!!
All kidding aside, i think the two teams have deep Defence corps that most teams would love to have.
Would anyone put Toronto or Montreals D in the top 5 in the NHL? Do they both make the top 10?
Who has the BEST D in the NHL?
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
If I remember correctly Grabo ran him in an awkward position. This doesn't make him soft. Soft refers to not hitting, not blocking shots and shying away from confrontation. Markov hits, blocks shots and although he doesn't drop the gloves, he doesn't back down.
You think watching 8 games a season gives you more insight into a team than someone that watches 82? |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2009 : 00:36:13
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Beans.... Sorry, but if Avery's one of your top six then you're weak at forward. First of all, this guy has trouble staying in the lineup and secondly, when he does, he has trouble staying on the ice. More simply, lemme ask you this: Would you like to see him with the Oil? Didn't think so....
Also, i was away this weekend and didn't hear about the Prospal signing until after i posted. This imo is a good signing for a team in desperate need of offence! Not sure he'll help out defensively, but the Rangers aren't too bad back there to begin with.
Ales Kotalik? Well, i googled him to get some stats and most of the google results were forums with people debating whether or not he's got a girlfriend? Guess he's popular with the puck bunnies? Supposedly he's linked to some hottie? I'm guessing he'll do alright in NY, but she'll prob do better...
Higgins will be given every chance to prove himself and may just do so? I just feel there's too many forwards there who will need to play with better players to perform to expectations. Yeah, Higgins can get 20, but who centered him in Montreal compared to who's gonna center him in NY? Looks to me like there are too many "potential" top 6 guys and not enough proven ones to play with them. Confusing? Well, lets just say they play Drury with Gabby on his wing. This leaves one lucky stiff to play on the other wing, likely someone with size and/or fists (Avery maybe?) to help protect these two. Not that Gabby's small, but he's not the toughest guy on the ice and Drury IS on the smallish size? Who's the second line gonna be? Higgins and Kotalik with Dubinsky centering them? Don't get me wrong, they could be a hit on Broadway, but at this point, they prob aren't scaring anyone?
Also, gotta agree with Odin (think it was him?) about Torts in TB. He had a pretty decent team, not just a couple superstars. In fact, Richards was considered by many to be the best of the top three?
As for this comment "Sorry to get off topic, but c'mon hockey fans. Use your noggin's a little and look deeper. If I told you before the season started that your team had an all world goalie, a capable top 4 defensive group, 7 potential 20 goal scorers and the player with the highest PPG average over the past 3 season, you would be doing backflips at your chances."...Where do you get YOUR stats? Maybe you're the one who should "use your noggin"? Gaborik, the player with the highest PPG over the past 3 seasons? HUH? Here's what i see:
Gabby 142 GP and 163 PTS (1.148 ppg)
Ovechkin 243 GP and 314 PTS (1.292 ppg)
Malkin 242 GP and 304 PTS (1.256 ppg)
Crosby 209 GP and 295 PTS (1.411 ppg)
That's only the "BIG 3" too. I checked out Iginla and found he had a PPG of 1.201 Surely there's more but i didn't feel like calculating stats all night. I'd be willing to bet Datsyuk, Thornton and maybe even Zetterberg are in the mix. Even the three Sens with horrible stats last season are prob in there too!?!? Regardless, i get your point, but Gaborik's a total coin flip as to how many games he'll play. If he plays 75, i'll be he's in the 90-95 point range. However, that could quickly become 40-45 point range too...... |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2009 : 07:00:54
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quote:
Originally posted by redneck76ca
quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
Since i am a leafs fan, I see the habs alot. Markov is soft. Not soft serve ice cream soft, but he is definatley more on the soft side than the hard side. I mean, Grabovski f'd him up last year, C'mon!!
All kidding aside, i think the two teams have deep Defence corps that most teams would love to have.
Would anyone put Toronto or Montreals D in the top 5 in the NHL? Do they both make the top 10?
Who has the BEST D in the NHL?
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
If I remember correctly Grabo ran him in an awkward position. This doesn't make him soft. Soft refers to not hitting, not blocking shots and shying away from confrontation. Markov hits, blocks shots and although he doesn't drop the gloves, he doesn't back down.
You think watching 8 games a season gives you more insight into a team than someone that watches 82?
The grabo thing was more of a joke than anything. There is no doubt that Markov competes, but so does Kaberle yet people consider him "soft". I think that they are similar D-men, hence the "soft" reference.
I dont think that me watching "8" (you mean 6?) habs games a season give me more insight than you, I simply stated I watch the Habs alot. Just so you know, I watch Hab games that aren't against the Leafs as well. I have a couple close friends who are die hard Hab fans and we watch any Hab game that is on. As long as my Leafs aren't playing ;)
Not to mention Markov has been a Hab for years now and I've had plenty of opportunity to watch him play.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Canadiens vs. Maple Leafs 
