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Guest2332
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 Posted - 08/07/2009 : 06:31:33
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quote:
Originally posted by slozo
ha ha ha, fair enough, redneck - I can totally sympathise. You are right, the d-men might not mesh in Toronto . . . but at least I have the feeling that they each have been assembled together on purpose, not chosen as the ones available as Gainey seems to have done at forward and defence.
Why is Burke assembled a team on purpose and not Gainey. I know Burke wanted a defensive that can hit hard and play well defensively, no doubt he did a great job. But, I don't think Gainey chose the first available. He needed forwards that are responsible defensively, needed a passer and a scorer to replace the UFA that we're not in team plan anymore. He needed a forward to replace the lost of Kostopoulos and Begin. These player will also fit nicely with their new coach. Also, he needed to muscle his defence and that's what he did. Finally, he needed another offensive def to help Markov.
I really think Gainey did a great job to improve his team. The only problem will be the chemistry, but I never heard anything bad about these players.
Gainey vs Burke? Really hard to chose. I'll only say they outclass every other GM this year to improve their team short and long term. |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2009 : 06:32:46
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man, i cant wait for camp to start. There are just too many "ifs" to really predict what is going to happen.
How did the season series between the leafs and habs shake down last year? They wnet 3-3 against each other right? With each team winning in blowout fashion if i remember correctly.
Slozo- Good points man. There were more than a few teams who had better talent on paper than the leafs yet finished worse in the standings. Wilson is a very good coach and is always able to get more out of a lineup than you would expect. Martin on the other hand, is cursed when it comes to playing the leafs. We spanked his highly skilled ottawa teams 4 times in the playoffs (as im sure everyone knows by now..) they were WAYYYYYY better on paper yet things didnt quite turn out the way MANY expected. The Pat Quinn leafs just beat the tar out of the sens in the corners and in front of the net. Much like I expect Burkes leafs to do. Toughness and Truculence can beat skill in the right environment. If Gomez and cammalerri spend most of the game on the ice or getting stitched up they wont be very effective. Not to mention every hab that comes flying across the blueline better have their heads up. The leaf forwards just have to go around a couple pylons (haha im just kidding guys), no big deal.
I really liked Carey Price when he came into the NHL, but he has been one sketchy dude since then. He seemed like a sure bet to be one of the top 5 or 6 goalies in the NHL by about this year or next, so we shall see if he can rebound. Toskala is also a goalie who, when we acquired him, I thought was going to be very very good. He was awesome in SJ but came into a s***ty situation in Toronto and got hurt. He could definatley rebound and have a solid season.
The leafs D (imo) looks awesome...I dont see how montreals D compares..... maybe its just my bias, but I think Toronto is definatley better in that aspect. Hab fans may not have much patience for the slow and lumbering Gill and Mara. Spacek is great on the PP, but 5 on 5 he leaves alot to be desired...(imo).
I really hope Komisarek isnt a letdown for us.... I do know he is going to come flying out of the gate to prove the haters wrong, its that january-february portion of the season that I worry about him having braincramps...
Hope you humans have a good weekend! Glad to see hockey talk is still going strong in august!
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2009 : 06:40:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest2332
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
ha ha ha, fair enough, redneck - I can totally sympathise. You are right, the d-men might not mesh in Toronto . . . but at least I have the feeling that they each have been assembled together on purpose, not chosen as the ones available as Gainey seems to have done at forward and defence.
Why is Burke assembled a team on purpose and not Gainey. I know Burke wanted a defensive that can hit hard and play well defensively, no doubt he did a great job. But, I don't think Gainey chose the first available. He needed forwards that are responsible defensively, needed a passer and a scorer to replace the UFA that we're not in team plan anymore. He needed a forward to replace the lost of Kostopoulos and Begin. These player will also fit nicely with their new coach. Also, he needed to muscle his defence and that's what he did. Finally, he needed another offensive def to help Markov.
I really think Gainey did a great job to improve his team. The only problem will be the chemistry, but I never heard anything bad about these players.
Gainey vs Burke? Really hard to chose. I'll only say they outclass every other GM this year to improve their team short and long term.
interesting take on this...... Does anyone think that a GM out there did more to improve/revamp their clubs than Gainey and Burke? It is nice to see that the leafs and habs are being aggressive on the open market to try and compete with the best in the NHL.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2009 : 11:55:07
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So here is an interesting thought:
1st game of the season, the Habs lose Gomez and Markov to season ending injuries. They struggle around 8th all year but miss the playoffs. TO, on the other hand has nearly no injuries all year and finish the year in 8th.
Did Burke do better than Gainey than??
What about if TO loses Kaberle, Beauchemin, and Grabovski for any length of time and they finish in the bottom 5 in the league.
Did Gainey do better than Burke than??
A few key injuries can change this whole situation.
And the question was asked if any GM did as good as Gainey and Burke?? The answer is yet. Tallon until he got fired, the new fella in Anaheim, and Sutter in Calgary all did very solid moves to improve their team. If Edmonton picks up a top 3 forward before training camp, Tambo adding that and the Bulin wall is pretty good as well.
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redneck76ca
Rookie
186 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2009 : 12:11:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest2332
quote:
Originally posted by slozo
ha ha ha, fair enough, redneck - I can totally sympathise. You are right, the d-men might not mesh in Toronto . . . but at least I have the feeling that they each have been assembled together on purpose, not chosen as the ones available as Gainey seems to have done at forward and defence.
Why is Burke assembled a team on purpose and not Gainey. I know Burke wanted a defensive that can hit hard and play well defensively, no doubt he did a great job. But, I don't think Gainey chose the first available. He needed forwards that are responsible defensively, needed a passer and a scorer to replace the UFA that we're not in team plan anymore. He needed a forward to replace the lost of Kostopoulos and Begin. These player will also fit nicely with their new coach. Also, he needed to muscle his defence and that's what he did. Finally, he needed another offensive def to help Markov.
I really think Gainey did a great job to improve his team. The only problem will be the chemistry, but I never heard anything bad about these players.
Gainey vs Burke? Really hard to chose. I'll only say they outclass every other GM this year to improve their team short and long term.
I, too, think that Gainey had a vision AND purpose when he made his acquisitions. He needed a proven #1 center after going the past 6 or longer years without one and landed Gomez in a very reasonable trade for both sides. Is Gomez overpaid? Hell yes. He now has Gomez and when Kovy doesn't resign he goes after a player that he KNOWS has chemistry with Gomez in Gionta. Both players are productive in a defensive system which meshes well with the new coach in Martin. He lands Cammi, the best signing they made in the offseason. After having lost Komi to the Blue Devils donning the Maple Leaf, he needs to replace that grit and size, so he signs Mara and Gill to reasonable contracts to bolster the blue line. Knowing that he can't pay the money Schneider will want he lands a nice replacement in Spacek who is coming off a career year. He now has a very respectable top 6 dmen in Markov, Spacek, Hamrlik, Gorges, Mara and Gill. Knowing that he has lost some size in Kovy (please remember here that he is the only forward that they lost with any size other than Lang, both of which do not play big, in fact, Kovy for his size never throws his weight around) and Gainey lands his second best signing of Moen. If anyone has watched this big winger play, they know what character, grit and great 2 way play that he brings. Does he replace Kovy's talent and skill? Hell no but he has 2-3 young wingers that will be able to replace SOME of Kovy's production at a fraction of the cost, and the way that Kovy takes nights off why wouldn't you go in a new direction. All in all, I think that Gainey has improved this team, and, yes, chemistry may be an issue but I have never heard anything bad about the players that Gainey acquired. None of them are poison in the dressing room, they all compete night in, night out which can't be said of the previous year's roster.
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2009 : 12:21:35
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i agree with that... i like the habs more now than last year as well. Last year to me was just.... ridiculous. I heard ALOT (not just on here, but everywhere) of talk about how awesome the habs were and what a great team they have, the core was set and it was full speed ahead. I was roasted by alot of my hab friends who now are telling me everything i told them last year about that squad. I guess thats how sports fans usually work....(im far from perfect i know)
The team is so different now, which is good imo. Gainey is pretty lucky that someone else didnt snap up cammalerri or gionta... can you imagine this club if they didnt land those 2? would hab fans be as optimistic if they say, let Koivu go, Kept Kovalev and only traded for Gomez?
I still find it hard to swallow comparing Komisarek to Mara or Gill....
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2009 : 12:24:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
So here is an interesting thought:
1st game of the season, the Habs lose Gomez and Markov to season ending injuries. They struggle around 8th all year but miss the playoffs. TO, on the other hand has nearly no injuries all year and finish the year in 8th.
Did Burke do better than Gainey than??
What about if TO loses Kaberle, Beauchemin, and Grabovski for any length of time and they finish in the bottom 5 in the league.
Did Gainey do better than Burke than??
A few key injuries can change this whole situation.
And the question was asked if any GM did as good as Gainey and Burke?? The answer is yet. Tallon until he got fired, the new fella in Anaheim, and Sutter in Calgary all did very solid moves to improve their team. If Edmonton picks up a top 3 forward before training camp, Tambo adding that and the Bulin wall is pretty good as well.
Markov better keep his head up when Grabovski is on the ice haha(2 years in a row someone from the leafs injured a key player on a rival right before the playoffs... last year it was grabo on markov, the year before it was bell on alfie).
injuries can change everything no doubt. If gomez goes down montreal is in big trouble... a turtleneck would be your #1 centre....
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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redneck76ca
Rookie
186 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2009 : 13:28:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
So here is an interesting thought:
1st game of the season, the Habs lose Gomez and Markov to season ending injuries. They struggle around 8th all year but miss the playoffs. TO, on the other hand has nearly no injuries all year and finish the year in 8th.
Did Burke do better than Gainey than??
What about if TO loses Kaberle, Beauchemin, and Grabovski for any length of time and they finish in the bottom 5 in the league.
Did Gainey do better than Burke than??
A few key injuries can change this whole situation.
And the question was asked if any GM did as good as Gainey and Burke?? The answer is yet. Tallon until he got fired, the new fella in Anaheim, and Sutter in Calgary all did very solid moves to improve their team. If Edmonton picks up a top 3 forward before training camp, Tambo adding that and the Bulin wall is pretty good as well.
Markov better keep his head up when Grabovski is on the ice haha(2 years in a row someone from the leafs injured a key player on a rival right before the playoffs... last year it was grabo on markov, the year before it was bell on alfie).
injuries can change everything no doubt. If gomez goes down montreal is in big trouble... a turtleneck would be your #1 centre....
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
I would argue that maybe Grabo should keep his head up as he is going to have a couple of countrymen trying to take his head off first game of the season, the little bitch that Grabo is. |
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redneck76ca
Rookie
186 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2009 : 18:00:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
i agree with that... i like the habs more now than last year as well. Last year to me was just.... ridiculous. I heard ALOT (not just on here, but everywhere) of talk about how awesome the habs were and what a great team they have, the core was set and it was full speed ahead. I was roasted by alot of my hab friends who now are telling me everything i told them last year about that squad. I guess thats how sports fans usually work....(im far from perfect i know)
The team is so different now, which is good imo. Gainey is pretty lucky that someone else didnt snap up cammalerri or gionta... can you imagine this club if they didnt land those 2? would hab fans be as optimistic if they say, let Koivu go, Kept Kovalev and only traded for Gomez?
I still find it hard to swallow comparing Komisarek to Mara or Gill....
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
To address the first part of the post, of course Habs fans were excited over the prospect of the centennial team. The Habs were coming off of an excellent season and the additions of Lang and Tanguay had us salivating over the prospect of another great season. Why wouldn't we be excited? The young guns would have another season under their belt and if it were not for injuries to Koivu, Tanguay, Higgins, Lang and Price, who knows how well the boys would have done. You truthfully can't say that the roster going into last season was a bad one. I mean, at one point, the entire line of Tanguay, Koivu and Higgins was down for an extended period of time, throw in the freak injury to Lang who at the time was the best Hab and no kidding the season got derailed. People forget about the Habs injuries last season and how it affected them, not to mention the pressure of playing in Mtl in the centennial season. I truly think that if the team stayed healthy that the would have finished 4 or 5 in the East.
As far as comparison of Komi to Mara and Gill, I dont remember doing that, in fact I never did. All I said was that they lost grit in Komi so they went out and replaced that grit with Mara and Gill. You can't compare the two. Like I said before, its like comparing a Leafs fan to a rational person, you just can't do it. FYI, Mara is likely a better skater than Komi with better puck moving ability. Everyone forgets that he put up respectable numbers with Phoenix before moving to NYR (where he got very little PP time), back to back seasons with 40+ points. I see the PP pairings as Markov Mara, Spacek Gorges/Hamrlik. Leaf fans enjoy your stay at home dman in Komi cuz his first pass out of his zone will make you cringe at times. Can you say a less talented but equally as dangerous in his own zone Lumme? |
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Guest9262
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Posted - 08/07/2009 : 21:08:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Seventy7Fifty2
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Thank you sir - you said what i've been trying to say, only that you put it together much better and maybe other forum readers will take your words more serious than mine. ;-)
In the end - Gainey's putting something together for wins NOW.
Burke is counting on building, waiting, hoping things work out, etc..
That's not the way to manage teams anymore, Leaf fans... no GM's in any sport does that anymore. GM's manage to WIN, and win NOW!
This is why Toronto will probably NOT have ANY winners in ANY sport.
They build, and re-build, and hope for the future... then when nothing happens they start all over again with a new GM.
Look at your baseball, basketball, CFL teams... no winners there!!!
Gainey kicked everyone out from Habs that still has the "build for the future mentality". It's WIN, and WIN NOW.
Today's sports teams require a pretty solid core, with help from proven winners - even if these proven winners are only on the team for a couple of years. So the goal is to WIN NOW!
Burke can't handle that - neither can Leaf fans since they've been brainwashed for too many years with hopes for "next year".
And look at you guys now, instead of saying wait till next year - you're so brainswashed that you're all saying wait till 2015!!!!!!
This as to be the most stupid post ever.
7752 has to be to the Habs fans what Hanley is to the Leafs fans. You're both giving a bad name to the fan base of your team. |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2009 : 22:10:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest9262
quote:
Originally posted by Seventy7Fifty2
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Thank you sir - you said what i've been trying to say, only that you put it together much better and maybe other forum readers will take your words more serious than mine. ;-)
In the end - Gainey's putting something together for wins NOW.
Burke is counting on building, waiting, hoping things work out, etc..
That's not the way to manage teams anymore, Leaf fans... no GM's in any sport does that anymore. GM's manage to WIN, and win NOW!
This is why Toronto will probably NOT have ANY winners in ANY sport.
They build, and re-build, and hope for the future... then when nothing happens they start all over again with a new GM.
Look at your baseball, basketball, CFL teams... no winners there!!!
Gainey kicked everyone out from Habs that still has the "build for the future mentality". It's WIN, and WIN NOW.
Today's sports teams require a pretty solid core, with help from proven winners - even if these proven winners are only on the team for a couple of years. So the goal is to WIN NOW!
Burke can't handle that - neither can Leaf fans since they've been brainwashed for too many years with hopes for "next year".
And look at you guys now, instead of saying wait till next year - you're so brainswashed that you're all saying wait till 2015!!!!!!
This as to be the most stupid post ever.
7752 has to be to the Habs fans what Hanley is to the Leafs fans. You're both giving a bad name to the fan base of your team.
I dunno, i agreed with his compliment to Beans....  |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2009 : 08:19:14
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Redneck -
Please dont compare Komisarek to Lumme.... it makes me feel sick lol
As for the rest of what you said, yea i agree. Hab fans had high expectations coming off a 1st place finish in the east and rightfully so. Im just saying that by not being a habs fan, I could see that they werent as good as what many were trying to tell us. Injuries or not. Every team deals with injuries, if it was a Leaf fans saying that injuries were the reason we missed the playoffs (a couple years ago the leafs were in the top 5 in man games lost and missed the playoffs by a point, every other team in the top 5 were basement dwellers) hab fans would laugh at us and tell us to stop with the lame excuses.
Didnt mean to single you out specificly on the Komi vs mara/gill thing, i was just trying to say that many are saying that Gill or Mara is like an even trade. I happen to think that komisarek is way better than both of those guys...especially Gill.
Komi is only a year removed from leading the league in Hits and blocked shots, that is very valuable. No matter how "bad" his first pass is. You want to see a bad first pass? Just wait for Hal Gills patented "off the glass and out" breakout. If komi is doing the same thing plus everything else he does, than I dont see why Komi is getting ripped on as much as he is...
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Guest7752
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Posted - 08/10/2009 : 12:16:16
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[/quote]
This as to be the most stupid post ever.
7752 has to be to the Habs fans what Hanley is to the Leafs fans. You're both giving a bad name to the fan base of your team.
[/quote]
Easy man. The truth hurts, doesn't it?
Stick to Gainey vs Burke comments, and try to keep your emotions and pain out of your responses... it's so typical. |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2009 : 13:10:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Seventy7Fifty2
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
I can appreciate that the Leafs fans are passionate, but why exactly will the Leafs be better long term??? I mean, other than Kadri, there isn't any offensive talent on the farm. Even with that, I don't think a GM today, including Burke, would be happy putting their future in the frail hands of a guy who's barely 170 lbs. Their future, with the exception of Kadri is on the ice already with Schenn, Grabovski, and the likes.
TO is not in the same spot at Montreal. Montreal is a legitimate playoff team today and tomorrow. Montreal has their "top line" signed for the next 5 years. They have their 2 key defensemen through the next two season. Both their goalies will be RFA's and will more than likely sign reasonable contracts. I will agree there is not a huge amount of depth on the farm in Montreal either, but their average age is younger than the current Leafs!
The Leafs are not a play off team today and still need a few pieces for the future. Sure, they could do it as soon as next year depending on next years UFA's, but c'mon. Their defense is solid, their goaltending is solid, but there is no offense. And this off season, there are 9 UFA's including their #1 goalie. If the "Monster" turns out to be a "Munster", there are issues unless Luongod or Navokov are interested in moving. You can not say, with you head, that TO is in a better position to compete, today or tomorrow, than Montreal. That's the heart talking, not the head.
It could all change with a trade and/or signing and TO is a lot closer today than they were before the draft, but it's not there yet.
Thank you sir - you said what i've been trying to say, only that you put it together much better and maybe other forum readers will take your words more serious than mine. ;-)
In the end - Gainey's putting something together for wins NOW.
Burke is counting on building, waiting, hoping things work out, etc..
That's not the way to manage teams anymore, Leaf fans... no GM's in any sport does that anymore. GM's manage to WIN, and win NOW!
This is why Toronto will probably NOT have ANY winners in ANY sport.
They build, and re-build, and hope for the future... then when nothing happens they start all over again with a new GM.
Look at your baseball, basketball, CFL teams... no winners there!!!
Gainey kicked everyone out from Habs that still has the "build for the future mentality". It's WIN, and WIN NOW.
Today's sports teams require a pretty solid core, with help from proven winners - even if these proven winners are only on the team for a couple of years. So the goal is to WIN NOW!
Burke can't handle that - neither can Leaf fans since they've been brainwashed for too many years with hopes for "next year".
And look at you guys now, instead of saying wait till next year - you're so brainswashed that you're all saying wait till 2015!!!!!!
To be fair, you did say that Toronto sport teams will not have any winners in any sport because all we do is build and hope and rebuild and never build team to win now.
Toronto Blue Jays have 2 world series victorys, both with the highest payroll in the league at the time. Im pretty sure they were in "win now" mentality. How many did the Expo's win?
The Argos have 15 grey cup championships, the most out of ANY CFL team, with the most recent being 2004. 1997 and 1996.
The toronto maple leafs with 13 stanley cups are 2nd all time despite not having won it for 42 (and counting) seasons.
At least Toronto has an NBA team, one that looks quite promising for this upcoming season.
You do look kind of foolish trying to convince everyone that everything about Toronto sucks and will never succeed. I'd suggest quitting while your ahead, but then again, that wouldn't be much fun.
Gainey Wins Again right?
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Guest7752
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Posted - 08/11/2009 : 06:39:25
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easy mr. roberts...
the most recent WIN on your list dates back to 2004, which is about 6 years ago, and that's with a 6 or 8 team league!!
Also, that's the ONLY winner in the past couple of decades!!!
We all know how sports have changes in "recent" years...
Not an impressive list of winning teams.
For a city that is probably 5 times bugger than Montreal (and other CAD cities!!), your list of winning teams over the past is not very impressive.
Other CAD cities, including Montreal, do not have the population as the center of the universe does... however, they do have MORE championships considering how much smaller they are compared to the mightly TO!
You should not quit while you're ahead as you recommended to me - however, you should quit living in the past !!! |
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n/a
deleted
4809 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2009 : 07:16:53
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Corrections:
Toronto isn't even twice as large as Montreal now - but population-wise, yes, Toronto is now larger.
Before the 80s (or thereabouts), Montreal was actually larger than Toronto, FYI.
Let's all try something novel: before putting out your slap-down, hip-check smack-talk response, try a little research first, so that you don't come off as completely uninformed. With a little bit of research, who knows: your opinion might be taken seriously!
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug |
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Guest7752
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Posted - 08/11/2009 : 07:48:29
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quote:
Originally posted by slozo
Corrections:
Toronto isn't even twice as large as Montreal now - but population-wise, yes, Toronto is now larger.
Before the 80s (or thereabouts), Montreal was actually larger than Toronto, FYI.
Let's all try something novel: before putting out your slap-down, hip-check smack-talk response, try a little research first, so that you don't come off as completely uninformed. With a little bit of research, who knows: your opinion might be taken seriously!
"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug
what??
you're repeating what I just said.
Toronto is larger in population, and you're "living-in" and providing stats from 80's!!!
what does all this have to do with Burke's performance versus Gainey's?
I made the city-sports comment in context with Burke's and Toronto's history... you leaf fans keep getting your emotions in the way and keep responding with personal attacks...
c'mon guys, respond without getting your towels and emotions in the way...
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2009 : 08:13:44
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Hey Folks, let's keep this on track. This is about Gainey and Burke and what they have done as GM's this off season. It has nothing to do with who has won what in what sport, how big a city is, etc.
And Mr. 7752, be cautious with your statements. Don't expect people to not lob personal attack when you are lob them yourself. Your backhanded comments are not very well disguised. I for one do not appreciate them a whole bunch.
Thanks |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2009 : 08:18:59
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I always chuckle when i hear/read Toronto bashing. Coming from the "left coast", we hear our fair share, heck, we give out our fair share. Personally, i do get frustrated that we get force fed Leafs games on a regular basis, however i do understand the economics. Have to admit, it really pissed me off last season though when TO was doing terrible and they (CBC) said they were gonna switch it up and put other games on for the second half of the season. Well, that lasted all of one weekend i believe? 
7752....what do your comments about Toronto vs Montreal AND OTHER CANADIAN cities have to do with the freaking Gainey vs Burke topic? Huh? You seem to like to use that in your defense but look at your last post and this in particular: "Toronto is larger in population, and you're "living-in" and providing stats from 80's!!!
what does all this have to do with Burke's performance versus Gainey's?
I made the city-sports comment in context with Burke's and Toronto's history... " What does your city-sports comment have to do with Burke and TO's history? He just got there, they haven't really won anything yet since his arrival have they? Surprise surprise, thanks for pointing that out. BTW, the combination of Gomez, Gionta and Cammalleri have not scored a single goal for the Habs yet . Just thought you might wanna know that? Guess they're slumping?
Tell us all this....you're saying TO hasn't won anything recently or since 06? Fine, but what has Montreal won? They got an NBA championship? NOPE, in fact, no team! Never had one, at least here in Vancouver we can say we actually had one! They got a Stanley cup lately? NOPE Got a world series EVER? NOPE, no team anymore either. Got a Grey Cup lately? You know, that one from the "6 or 8 team league" that you foolishly used as leverage in your argument vs TO fans, Mr Roberts more specifically? Oh wait, your Al's did LOSE 4 of the past 6! That prob makes them champions in your eyes ? Prob means Gainey wins over Burke again too? With you, who the &$%* knows really?
Dude, you're digging yourself a big hole here and disgracing yourself. I refuse to say you're a disgrace to all Habs fans cuz i won't bunch you in with them. It's really not fair to them. It's like saying all MLB players are on roids because a group of them got caught.
What's population got to do with a winning team anyway? What's it got to do with Gainey vs Burke? Oh wait, maybe you're onto something. Since Burke signed in TO, there's been a steady flow of Vancouver base Leaf fans heading to the airport and moving to Toronto. Our population just got cut by 20% here!
Anyway, enough of this, you should get my point by now but prob don't. Put the shovel back in the garage, surely the hole you've dug is plenty big enough.
*note to admin/moderators - I admit in advance i clicked the "accept" button when i joined to having read all rules and regulations without actually doing so. Please don't ban me but please clear something up for me? I'm assuming personal attacks are not allowed but does calling someone a complete freakin' moron count as a personal attack? Please inform, cuz i'm itching to add that to my next post to a certain delussional individual.
Thanks in advance...
Alex116 |
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Odin
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
350 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2009 : 10:15:41
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I think Matt was right in a previous post thet we're all just jonesing for some hockey! I know I am!
Olympic camp is going to have to hold us over for the next while I suppose.
Bottom line is: Of course Habs fans are going to defend the Habs and Leafs fans are going to do the same for their Leafs. I wouldn't want it any other way, it makes for lively discussions like we're having here, as I guess this is currently what many are using to deal with their hockey withdrawals! Again, I know I am.
I do find it funny, however, that we tend to 'hate' each other instead of American teams, but I guess proximity will always do that. |
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Guest7752
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Posted - 08/11/2009 : 10:21:56
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Feeling better now Alex116?
Doesn't it help getting it all out of your system after trying to keep it in for so long?
well done... for someone who has Sundin on their side |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2009 : 13:33:52
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Guy, this thread has been really intersting with some great debate going on. Let's not ruin it by taking things off course and getting into personal attacks. For the most part, the moderators are pretty liberal on this site and let people police themselves, but this going a little to far. Let's keep it on topic, please. If it's not about Burke or Gainey, it's getting removed. If it continues with multiple people off topic, the thread will be locked.
And Alex116, please refrain from name calling. It will get removed from your post by a moderator. You won't be banned unless things continue after warnings from the Mods or Admin. There are ways to get your point across to the masses without name calling, which you have been able to do very well to this point.
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2009 : 13:42:00
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Hahaha, Alex, that was great.
I've been going back and forth with 7752 about crap like this since early last season. It all started with the Sundin Comedy thread.
we are all just itching for hockey, im just having fun with this. Nothing personal against anyone... to be honest, im pretty sure 7752 is just having a blast getting people going. It sounds like he has a case of "untouchable hab fan" syndrome.
Does it feel good to get it all out of your system 7752? Leaf fans must really drive you nuts. If this makes you feel better, than its fine with me.
So! I hear Burke can beat Gainey in arm wrestling AND poker.
Gainey vs Burke Round 2!
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Guest7752
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Posted - 08/12/2009 : 05:46:32
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Your comments are noted & Understood Mr. Beans.
Your comments are noted & Understood Mr. Roberts.
Please do not take any of my comments personally, i do make an effort not to personally attack anyone. i keep my trash talk to "general" leaf fans. If anyone takes it personally, then that's your issue.
I only personally atack when I am attacked.
By the way, the Sundin Comedy is getting even funnier this "second" season... or maybe not since he's unemployed.
Maybe Burke can pick up both Sundin and Theo?
AND Gainey would win again without even doing a thing
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2009 : 08:05:55
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Beans....
I, and Mr. Sundin, since he's "on my side", will do our best to behave. You have our words.
7752, i really wish i hated the Habs, but i don't, i actually hope they do well and as i've stated, i think they'll finish higher than the leafs this year. I'm not sure if that really says "Gainey wins" as it's clear Burke had less to work with and therefore had no choice but to take the long term approach at an attempt to make his team a playoff team / cup contender. Only time will tell.
Matt... glad i could supply you with a chuckle and i do agree that we're itching for hockey (most of us prob were the minute the cup was hoisted). However, i come on here to get info and see some other opinions on whats happening in the off season. I do tend to get frustrated with certain posts when i either disagree with them, or even worse, when i can completely prove that they're either wrong or simply unwarranted opinions that are being passed as facts.
Anyway, we shall see who "wins" this GM battle that 7752 has introduced to the hockey world on the pickuphockey.com forums, but we'll have to wait a few years to really decide, no? Either way, i'd love to see the excitement in the hockey world if one of these two teams could contend to the bitter end in the near future! I still remember vividly 1993's unbelievable run by Les Habitants and the excitement it generated around here. Almost every one of my friends and i (all Canucks fans) were cheering for the Canadiens! Maybe it was the long lasting hatred (yet respect) for Wayne from his days of murdering us in Edmonton, but i've never seen this city cheer for Montreal like that before! Leaves me to wonder if it'd be the same for the Leafs..............Sorry Leaf fans, but somehow i doubt it The Leafs could be playing a team with a starting lineup of the Unibomber, Willie Pickton, Jeffrey Dahmer, Charles Manson, Clifford Robert Olson and that sick *$%& who cut off the dudes dome on the bus in Mannitoba and us Nucks fans would prob still find it tough to cheer for the Leafs! Sorry, just the way it is..... |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2009 : 10:44:56
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Alex man, no need to apologize. We, the great people of Toronto (hahah i know), are well aware that everyone across the country hates us. Why, im not so sure. Im pretty sure there was a thread a while back discussing why people hate the leafs and toronto, it may be interesting to start one again.
If Toronto were to go on a crazy run and make it to the finals I dont think we would care all that much if people in Vancouver, Montreal, Ottawa, Edmonton and Calgary were cheering for whoever was playing us. It would make it more fun if anything.
As far as Gainey vs Burke goes, ill say it again. Burke has been on the job for 9 months. Gainey has been on the job since before the lockout im pretty sure (correct me if im wrong, i could look it up, but meh...)
Just to get the 'nucks blood going, i read something pretty funny recently when comparing the nucks to the leafs. It went something like this...
"'Nuck fans are always ripping on Leaf fans about '67 and how it has been 42+ years since the've won the cup. Well, I'd rather have not been laid in 42 years than be a 39 year old virgin."
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Guest2332
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Posted - 08/12/2009 : 11:44:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
"'Nuck fans are always ripping on Leaf fans about '67 and how it has been 42+ years since the've won the cup. Well, I'd rather have not been laid in 42 years than be a 39 year old virgin."
lol this is funny. But I would prefer being virgin for 39 years than not been laid for 42 years because I don't know what it is and it easier on the mind like this. It's less stressful like this. |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2009 : 11:55:26
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If ignorance is bliss than wipe the smile off my face
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2009 : 13:03:15
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39 year old virgin? Wasn't it 40 year old virgin? Oh well, that's not too far from now i guess! Personally, i would rather be neither, but i got a chuckle out of that quote!
Also, i agree with what you say about Burke having only been on the job for 9 months vs Gainey's 5 or 6 years. Be interesting to see how competetive the Leafs are a few years down the road. Like i've said before, i respect Burke and his hockey knowledge, but i can't stand him (and that's nothing to do with the Leafs, i hated him here from day 1). I think he's made some great moves over the years, but he's also made some bad ones as well as been given too much credit for things such as the cup win in Anaheim, the signing of Niedermeyer, etc. Then again, all GM's make some good moves and bad ones, right?
When i look back to Edm and Calgary's recent runs to the finals and see that the entire country DIDN'T support them as the last Canadian team, it's obvious the Leafs won't get that support either. I'd say, and this is a total guess, that 80% of Canucks fans were pulling for the Oilers and Flames those years whereas i'd guess about 10% would root for the Leafs in a similar situation. Of that 10%, only 3% would admit to it and cheer openly in public.
*note - that 3% would all be MMA guys or gangsters who could defend themselves |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2009 : 13:30:52
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Wow, yea i guess i should update those numbers to 43 and 40.
Im still of the opinion that Burke has gained enough experience over the course of his career that alot of the mistakes you saw Burke make back in Van city and Hartford wont be nearly as frequent. The Bertuzzi signing in Anaheim was a pretty ugly sore spot on his record but It is forgivable...
The only way I can see myself turning against Burke is if in another couple seasons from the leafs are still void of a franchise forward. A guy who can compete with the top 10 players in the league. I find it very difficult to invision how he gets that guy. I dont see the leafs getting a 1 or 2 overall pick anytime soon, nor do they have anything to trade for a guy like that. Free Agency seems to be the only hope and most of the franchise forwards in the NHL are already locked up. (ILYA KOVALCHUCK, IF YOURE READING THIS PLEASE COME TO TORONTO!!!!!!!!!!!!1).
I hope im not on this board 2 or 3 years from now calling for Burkes head while hab fans just laugh and laugh.... 
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2009 : 15:19:35
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It doesn't appear we will be able to credit or discredit Gainey or Burke one Zherdev. Looks like he's Russia Bound!
http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=287399 |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2009 : 07:17:35
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I dont think Burke would even be willing to deal with Zherdev... the guys seems to be extremley high maintenance for really, an above average player... I can't see Ron Wilson having much patience for him either... With the way the leafs are building their team, I dont think right now is a good time to be taking on any "project" players either.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
Edited by - Matt_Roberts85 on 08/13/2009 07:18:40 |
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Alex116
PickupHockey Legend
6113 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2009 : 08:11:02
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| Pretty amazing that some of these young talented players can't figure it out. The guy's got some serious offensive talent but just can't seem to grasp the concept of a team game and the duties that come with it! Look here in Vancouver, we're spending 4mill on Demitra. Now, i'm not saying that's not overpaid, but wouldn't you think that Zherdev's worth similar money with those stats? Well, IF he'd get his head outta his AZZ!!!! |
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2009 : 15:35:03
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one thing I don't count Price or Toskala solid number 1 goaltenders, they both suck and can't handle the pressure of playing for a media based team such as Toronto or Montreal, I don't even think they have proven themselves that they are good enough to take the pressure of being solid and steady number one goalie... I'd trade Toskala to Montreal any day for Halak, why? Halak is by far Montreals better goalie... Who would play more? Price or Toskala if they were on the same team? Sounds like a nightmare to me, two of the most consistantly horrible goalies in the NHL today
...And the LEAFS Win the CUP |
Edited by - hanley6 on 08/18/2009 15:37:15 |
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Guest0494
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Posted - 08/18/2009 : 15:54:29
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quote:
Originally posted by hanley6
one thing I don't count Price or Toskala solid number 1 goaltenders, they both suck and can't handle the pressure of playing for a media based team such as Toronto or Montreal, I don't even think they have proven themselves that they are good enough to take the pressure of being solid and steady number one goalie... I'd trade Toskala to Montreal any day for Halak, why? Halak is by far Montreals better goalie... Who would play more? Price or Toskala if they were on the same team? Sounds like a nightmare to me, two of the most consistantly horrible goalies in the NHL today
...And the LEAFS Win the CUP
bahahahahahaha is this kid for real? please tell me he's being sarcastic or does these post all the time
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redneck76ca
Rookie
186 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2009 : 17:03:51
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quote:
Originally posted by hanley6
one thing I don't count Price or Toskala solid number 1 goaltenders, they both suck and can't handle the pressure of playing for a media based team such as Toronto or Montreal, I don't even think they have proven themselves that they are good enough to take the pressure of being solid and steady number one goalie... I'd trade Toskala to Montreal any day for Halak, why? Halak is by far Montreals better goalie... Who would play more? Price or Toskala if they were on the same team? Sounds like a nightmare to me, two of the most consistantly horrible goalies in the NHL today
...And the LEAFS Win the CUP
Seriously? IMO they are both bonafide starters. That being said, I like the fact that Halak can step in and play #1 minutes if required. |
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sharksfan44
Rookie
Canada
228 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2009 : 18:15:16
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It doesn't matter what burke does because the leafs are going to end up in the same spot they've been in for the past couple years. as for the gainey and the habs they have made some good moves and they should b a cup contender this season, but i still dont think they'll b
a team to worry about. In my mind gainey has done a better job |
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Guest9262
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Posted - 08/18/2009 : 18:37:04
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quote:
Originally posted by hanley6
one thing I don't count Price or Toskala solid number 1 goaltenders, they both suck and can't handle the pressure of playing for a media based team such as Toronto or Montreal, I don't even think they have proven themselves that they are good enough to take the pressure of being solid and steady number one goalie... I'd trade Toskala to Montreal any day for Halak, why? Halak is by far Montreals better goalie... Who would play more? Price or Toskala if they were on the same team? Sounds like a nightmare to me, two of the most consistantly horrible goalies in the NHL today
...And the LEAFS Win the CUP
Toskala had a bad season last year because of injury and an aweful defense in front of him. He still have a lot to prove. If Gustaffson plays well and put a lot of pressure for the starting job, Toskala will bounce back.
As for Price he has one so so season at 21. He got way too much critics, The fans to boo him in the playoffs was such a classeless move (same with booing the Star Spangled Banner twice). He's still really young and has a tone of potentials. Price will bounce back. The problem is Gainey gave him too much responsabilities at such a young age. But for sure Price is Montreal best futur star and they need to build around him.
Halak will be use for trading bait. |
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Guest9262
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Posted - 08/18/2009 : 18:42:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest9262
quote:
Originally posted by hanley6
one thing I don't count Price or Toskala solid number 1 goaltenders, they both suck and can't handle the pressure of playing for a media based team such as Toronto or Montreal, I don't even think they have proven themselves that they are good enough to take the pressure of being solid and steady number one goalie... I'd trade Toskala to Montreal any day for Halak, why? Halak is by far Montreals better goalie... Who would play more? Price or Toskala if they were on the same team? Sounds like a nightmare to me, two of the most consistantly horrible goalies in the NHL today
...And the LEAFS Win the CUP
Toskala had a bad season last year because of injury and an aweful defense in front of him. He still have a lot to prove. If Gustaffson plays well and put a lot of pressure for the starting job, Toskala will bounce back.
As for Price he has one so so season at 21. He got way too much critics, The fans to boo him in the playoffs was such a classeless move (same with booing the Star Spangled Banner twice). He's still really young and has a tone of potentials. Price will bounce back. The problem is Gainey gave him too much responsabilities at such a young age. But for sure Price is Montreal best futur star and they need to build around him.
Halak will be use for trading bait.
I forgot to say
If Montreal fans continue to boo him, he will ask for a trade and win a Stanley Cup somewhere else. |
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Topic |
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Gainey vs Burke 
