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Reiko24
Top Prospect
22 Posts |
 Posted - 11/29/2006 : 23:14:11
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Overrated means having a huge salary, people having high expectations for you but you don't deliver...
I think that Jose Thedore is the most overrated player right now... Datsyuk is also pretty close
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leigh
Moderator
Canada
1755 Posts |
Posted - 11/29/2006 : 23:44:39
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i'm not sure you can classify "slumping" as overrated. So I wouldn't consider Datsyuk as overrated. He'll pull out of his funk soon enough. I hope so cause my pool depends on it. haha!
Theodore is another story. I think I agree, but then again I'm not sure. I wouldn't have agreed last year but after he really hasn't performed for any stretch for a long time I'd say he may fit in that category...but I'll sit on the fence a bit longer yet.
I think Cheechoo is very overrated. I realize he's hurt right now but I truly don't think he'll find that magic he had with Thornton last year again. Mind you I don't know what he makes for $. Anyone? |
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slapshot
Rookie
USA
141 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2006 : 09:11:10
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| Cheechoo makes about $2.5 million I think. I would disagree about him being overrated. Theodore yes, he sucks. I don't know - maybe Rick Nash. |
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bablaboushka
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2417 Posts |
Posted - 11/30/2006 : 10:53:58
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I don't know if Cheechoo will repeat his 56 goals from last year. In all likelihood he will because he's still relatively young and the NHL is shaping up for players like him. I don't think he's overrated; last year he got all the exposure that a Rocket Richard trophy winner should and who knows how well he could have been doing now if he wasn't hurt.
Theodore is overrated big time. He has been for a while and this is no new sentiment from me. I also believe Kiprusoff is overrated but that's such a soft spot with a lot of people because the media over-exaggerates his success and makes him seem like a hockey god. I think the Flames' record speaks for itself. Blah blah blah I know he plays in a "tough" division... Until he starts winning, he's no good. One run to the Finals and a Vezina doesn't mean he's good, it means he has potential. He just needs to be a little more consistent. |
Edited by - bablaboushka on 11/30/2006 10:58:55 |
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Guest5690
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Posted - 12/06/2006 : 00:19:56
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lol, if a run to the finals and a vezina doesn't mean you're any good, then I guess the following players all suck since their credentials are all worse than Kipper's:
Spezza, Crosby, Ovechkin, Phaneuf, Malkin, Alfredsson, Heatley, Marleau, Hossa, Briere, etc...
I believe that between those 10 guys, we have a combined total of zero trips to the finals and 2 calders... their credentials are all worse than Kipper's vezina and finals trip, but I highly doubt that you are going to tell me that all of those guys are no good, and that all they have is potential. Kipper does not belong in this conversation at all, lol. |
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Guest2729
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Posted - 12/06/2006 : 01:53:26
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| luongo. |
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bablaboushka
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2417 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2006 : 08:54:32
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Well some of those guys have put up consistent numbers for extended periods of time, throughout different levels of play. They are mostly young players who still have to prove themselves. I don't think they are overrated but they haven't shown us their full potential yet, same with Kiprusoff. Just because he has one Stanley Cup run and a Vezina in 6 years of playing means that he has set the bar high. With a 13-9-whatever record, to me he's not the creme of the crop...yet. He's shown what he can do, it's up to him to show he can do it more than once.
It's like Roloson. He made one run to the Cup and everyone thinks he is an elite goalie already? After many years of far-from-stellar play, the 37 year old is far from an elite goalie. |
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Guest8506
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Posted - 12/06/2006 : 09:47:35
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Kipper's stats so far this year: (Comparing against other starting goalies)
Tied for 4th in wins with 13
3rd in GAA with 2.01
Tied for 1st in PCT with .931
Tied for 1st in shutouts with 4
Yeah, sure looks like the stats of an overrated player. Kiprusoff is one of the best bargains in the NHL at 3.5 mil. But my vote would be for Rick Nash and his 15 points. |
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bablaboushka
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2417 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2006 : 09:50:28
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| He is also tied for 6th in the league for the most losses. His team is 17th in the league and two points out of 10th in the Conference. It seems to me that matters more. I'm not saying he isn't doing well, but he's not doing enough. He isn't stealing games like he did last year. |
Edited by - bablaboushka on 12/06/2006 09:53:05 |
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Guest8506
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Posted - 12/06/2006 : 10:00:55
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The Flames are 8th in the conference and have at least one game in hand on everyone in front of them. More importantly they are only two points out of first in the division. Anyways, the Flames were terrible the first 12 games and you can't put that all on Kipper.
Last ten games for Kipper: 8-2-0, 1.31, .953 in last 10 GPI |
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bablaboushka
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2417 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2006 : 10:05:47
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| That's great, now if he truly is an elite goalie as his accolades might suggest, he will keep up the pace all throughout the season, not just when he wants to. |
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Guest6693
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Posted - 12/06/2006 : 13:58:22
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| i dunno who the most overrated player is but i knopw that mike fisher is the most under rated!!! |
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ultimatetitman
Rookie
Canada
244 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2006 : 16:05:56
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bablaboushka, I rarely disagree with you, but I have to here. Kipper is a great goalie, and has been for the better part of three seasons. When he is on his game, he's amongst the best in league. Granted, he hasn't been on his game all season, but there aren't many goalie's I'd take ahead of him.
Now, don't get me wrong, like many here, I am not a fan. Heck, as a sad sack Canucks fan, I detest all things Calgary. But as a hockey fan, I gotta say, he's pretty damn good.
Overrated? How about Bertuzzi? Or any ex-Leaf, CuJo, Belfour, Nieuendyk... or any current Leaf, Kaberle, McCabe...
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Guest5512
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Posted - 12/06/2006 : 16:46:37
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| Kaberle, McCabe and Nieuendyk are definately not overrated...Cujo had one season to talk about and that was pretty much it but i dont think people think to highly of him anyway. Saying Belfour is overrated is insane, he is afterall in 2nd with wins or shutouts behind Roy(can't remember wins or shutouts). As for overrated leafs I'd say Kubina and O'neil are tied for 1st. |
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1 Crosby fan
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1454 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2006 : 20:30:54
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I'd say Ryan Kesler man $1.9 million dollors
Shawn Howard |
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spearbelly
Top Prospect
Canada
98 Posts |
Posted - 12/06/2006 : 22:27:37
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| [I agree Leigh.Datsyuk will cease his slump funk.Cheechoo same.Kiprusoff WHATTT??????????????????OVERRATED?????????????Like............ sleeping with N. Furtado while on vacation in Florida just prior to winning a $3mil lottery and learning that the Reba sit com was cancelled .............is overrated!!! How bout the phoney Fedorov with 5 goals @ $6mil??? or the hoaxing Hamrlik 2 g 6 a in 24 gms @ $3.75mil??? and the runner runner-up the crude Kyle Calder with ZIP goals 3 amazing assists in 24 gms@$2.95 mil (If Kaberle or McCabe had 1/2 their current points I'd agree) |
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ultimatetitman
Rookie
Canada
244 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2006 : 13:57:05
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I stand corrected on Kaberle and McCabe. They are having better seasons than I realize. I just remember how McCabe's own coach didn't have enough confidence in him to play him in any significant situation at the Olympics.
Perhaps I should say that they are only over rated compared to what the Toronto media makes them out to be.
Apologies to all Toronto fans. But I do need to remind you all that the plural of leaf is leaves. |
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spearbelly
Top Prospect
Canada
98 Posts |
Posted - 12/07/2006 : 21:30:20
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[quote]Originally posted by ultimatetitman
I stand corrected on Kaberle and McCabe. They are having better seasons than I realize. I just remember how McCabe's own coach didn't have enough confidence in him to play him in any significant situation at the Olympics.
Recall please do , that he was an "Injury Add-On", not an original pick to do Brad Park stuff . |
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Guest4785
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Posted - 12/12/2006 : 15:39:11
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NIC ANTROPOV AND ALEX PONIKAROFSKI!!!(@) the leafs are keeping them cuz they think their guud. ya right!!! and they also let them play with their best player- Mats Sundin.
... i also think alfredsson is overated and fans in ottawa are finally realizing it. |
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spearbelly
Top Prospect
Canada
98 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2006 : 21:22:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4785
NIC ANTROPOV AND ALEX PONIKAROFSKI!!!(@) the leafs are keeping them cuz they think their guud. ya right!!! and they also let them play with their best player- Mats Sundin.
... i also think alfredsson is overated and fans in ottawa are finally realizing it.
Antropov and Ponifscorelessky are somewhere betwixed useless and semi-effective however can hardly be rated therefore OVERRATED is a non issue. Their hulking size and occasional boardwork with some flashes of puck control (including opponents having difficulties stripping the biscuit from them) put them in a category of semi-usefullness .When you speak "Bang for yer buck" @ combined salaries of $1.75 mil ,as useless as they sometimes appear they can NOT be considered overrated. JEFF O'NEILL and even SOUP BOY @ $8 mil (like ALFREDSSON) fit the OVERRATED BILL moreso. |
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1 Crosby fan
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1454 Posts |
Posted - 12/12/2006 : 21:26:40
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quote:
Originally posted by spearbelly
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4785
NIC ANTROPOV AND ALEX PONIKAROFSKI!!!(@) the leafs are keeping them cuz they think their guud. ya right!!! and they also let them play with their best player- Mats Sundin.
... i also think alfredsson is overated and fans in ottawa are finally realizing it.
Antropov and Ponifscorelessky are somewhere betwixed useless and semi-effective however can hardly be rated therefore OVERRATED is a non issue. Their hulking size and occasional boardwork with some flashes of puck control (including opponents having difficulties stripping the biscuit from them) put them in a category of semi-usefullness .When you speak "Bang for yer buck" @ combined salaries of $1.75 mil ,as useless as they sometimes appear they can NOT be considered overrated. JEFF O'NEILL and even SOUP BOY @ $8 mil (like ALFREDSSON) fit the OVERRATED BILL moreso.
true |
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Oggie Oglethorpe
Top Prospect
USA
1 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2006 : 02:20:47
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| Kovalev isn't worth the 4.5 Million $ per year he's getting in Mtl. |
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Novie
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
452 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2006 : 07:41:51
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Let's not forget the NYI duo of Yashin and DiPietro.
If Alfredsson was playing better, I would mention him too.
Go Sens |
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1 Crosby fan
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
1454 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2006 : 16:40:07
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| I'd say Ryan Kesler because he is gettin 1.9 million |
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bablaboushka
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2417 Posts |
Posted - 12/13/2006 : 17:03:08
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| To say Ryan Kesler is overrated is unfair. He doesn't deserve $1.9 million and he knows it but he's worth more than a first rounder to Nonis so that's what he had to pay to keep him. Kesler didn't ask for 1.9 and he sure knows that if not for that offer sheet, he'd be making a lot less. Of course he loves it cause he's rolling in the dough when he shouldn't be, but it puts pressure on him that he shouldn't have. |
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spearbelly
Top Prospect
Canada
98 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2006 : 21:22:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Novie
Let's not forget the NYI duo of Yashin and DiPietro.
If Alfredsson was playing better, I would mention him too.
Go Sens
You're saying Yashin @ 28 pts in 22 gms and DiPietro in the middle of the "STARTERS" pack with a 2.78 gaa and a 9.12 save % , are overrated ?? And that if Alfy was playing gooder he'd be overrated?????Huh!!! |
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Guest4101
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Posted - 12/15/2006 : 19:51:01
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Kiprusoff is not overrated!
Goals allowed (or stats like save % and GAA) are a better measure of a goaltender's strength than just straight team wins. You can be the best goalie in the league and hold the best opponents to 1 or 2 goals each game, but if your own team can't score either, you're screwed on the wins. So look at his GAA and goals allowed since joining the Flames:
His GAA in 2003-04 before the playoff run: 1.69.
His GAA during the playoff run: 1.85.
He brought the team to within one game of a Stanley Cup.
His GAA last year: 2.07.
With that he wins a Vezina Trophy and the William Jennings Trophy.
His GAA this year: 2.08.
These are all incredible numbers. Any lack of wins Kiprusoff has had in recent slumps has not been from his weak playing, but from the Flames' lacking offense. Even this year with their shaky 15-11-3 record this year, the Flames have the least goals allowed in the NHL (68). Last year they finished again with the least goals allowed at 200. In 2003-2004, Calgary finished with 176 goals allowed, 3rd least to New Jersey's 164.
Are you going to tell me that Kiprusoff has not been consistently a strong goalie?
I think the most overrated player this year Peter Forsberg. For the $7 mil he's making, he's really not living up to his expectations. He's always been the type to miss a lot of games, and I suspect a lot of it is avoidable (like not having the right skates for his ankles). Even when he has been playing, his point production has been lousy (7-9 in 22 games). With his playmaking abilities and Gagne's natural scoring touch, the team could easily be winning more games, but instead the Flyers are putting out their worst performance in the last 10 years.
In contrast, new acquisition Martin Havlat has compensated for his prolonged injury leave with 18 points in 11 games, still leading the Blackhawks in goals despite missing 20 odd games. That's what Forsberg should be doing for his $7 mil.
I would have said Federov earlier in the year, but he is starting to perform at a $6 mil rate with a recent 3 point night. The whole team is coming out of a slump under new management, ironically the same management (Hitchcock) that was (probably wrongly) blamed for the Flyers' recent funk |
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Mikhailova
PickupHockey All-Star
USA
2918 Posts |
Posted - 12/23/2006 : 18:17:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Oggie Oglethorpe
Kovalev isn't worth the 4.5 Million $ per year he's getting in Mtl.
Yeah he is. Without him and Markov and Koivu, the Canadiens aren't much. (Well, the non-goalie players aren't. Aebischer and Huet are pretty good). |
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Mikhailova
PickupHockey All-Star
USA
2918 Posts |
Posted - 12/23/2006 : 18:19:03
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As for most overrated player, I'd say Forsberg. He's not up to par this year at all.
And for the record, Kiprusoff is not overrated. |
Edited by - Mikhailova on 12/23/2006 18:19:32 |
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Blubberboy
Rookie
155 Posts |
Posted - 12/26/2006 : 17:47:53
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 STALL!!!
PITS SUK
Go Canucks |
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bablaboushka
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2417 Posts |
Posted - 12/26/2006 : 20:06:08
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5 SHG to lead the NHL and he plays 3rd line minutes. Oh, and he's 18. He's not overrated, he's just damn good (just ask Lars Jonsson of Philly).
By the way, it's Staal not Stall. |
Edited by - bablaboushka on 12/26/2006 20:08:42 |
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Guest4044
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Posted - 12/26/2006 : 20:22:40
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quote:
Originally posted by bablaboushka
That's great, now if he truly is an elite goalie as his accolades might suggest, he will keep up the pace all throughout the season, not just when he wants to.
give up babalabuska. you're hanging on to an agument you are losing badly. it's kind of embarrasing for a moderator. |
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leigh
Moderator
Canada
1755 Posts |
Posted - 12/26/2006 : 20:44:06
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quote:
Originally posted by ultimatetitman
bablaboushka, I rarely disagree with you, but I have to here. Kipper is a great goalie, and has been for the better part of three seasons. When he is on his game, he's amongst the best in league. Granted, he hasn't been on his game all season, but there aren't many goalie's I'd take ahead of him.
Now, don't get me wrong, like many here, I am not a fan. Heck, as a sad sack Canucks fan, I detest all things Calgary. But as a hockey fan, I gotta say, he's pretty damn good.
Overrated? How about Bertuzzi? Or any ex-Leaf, CuJo, Belfour, Nieuendyk... or any current Leaf, Kaberle, McCabe...
Nieuwendyk is not overrated. a point a game throughout his career (it did drop off gradually toward the end) and paid only $2.25 million |
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bablaboushka
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2417 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2006 : 16:29:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4044
quote:
Originally posted by bablaboushka
That's great, now if he truly is an elite goalie as his accolades might suggest, he will keep up the pace all throughout the season, not just when he wants to.
give up babalabuska. you're hanging on to an agument you are losing badly. it's kind of embarrasing for a moderator.
Man, is it so hard to copy and paste my name into a text box? Who is babalabuska? Assuming it's me...
Listen, I have my opinions and just because I'm a moderator doesn't mean you have to agree with me, or vice-versa. It also doesn't mean that I have to adopt the general concensus as my opinion either and there is no better proof than Mr. Kiprusoff. He is 16-13-2, that's mediocre at best; why does everyone STILL classify him as the god of all goalies? First of all, it's because the majority of members on this forum are from the West, so I can't really blame you for thinking that. It's the same reason why 90% of kids these days cheer for Toronto, it's the only team they see. If all they got to watch was Sharks games, all of a sudden everyone loves the Sharks and Vesa Toskala becomes the most popular goalie in the league.
He did have one elite season, last year, where he led the league in pretty much every goalie stats category = last year, he was the god of goalies. This year, he's 16-13-2. That speaks for itself. I don't care what his GAA is or what his SV% is, he doesn't win games. Whether Calgary scores or not, I don't care, he doesn't win games.
I have my opinions and so do you. Please do not insult mine like that, as I have never put anyone down, including you, for what you think. |
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Guest4044
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Posted - 12/27/2006 : 16:41:17
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Well you are relentless, I'll give you that. 4101 explained it pretty clearly but yet you persist to flog the dead horse. oh well.
As for your 'west based' argument I think if that were the case more people on this site would slag him because he is an opponent to their teams. I don't think it holds water. nice try though. |
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bablaboushka
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2417 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2006 : 16:45:51
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4101 talked about GAA, SV% and trophies. He didn't say how Kiprusoff is not winning games. He isn't, it's simple. He's not stealing games like he was last season. The fact that he went to game 7 two seasons ago means nothing, he got eliminated first round last year.
In the West he is praised more than in the East... In the East he's everyone's enemy but in the West he has half the fans. Do the math. |
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Ripley
PickupHockey Pro
USA
365 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2006 : 16:52:07
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Luongo is widely regarded as one of the best goalies in the game and represents Canada on a regular basis. Yet, except for last year, he has never had a winning season. Babs, do you think he is garbage too?
Of course in the overall scheme of the game the goal is to win, but the reason we collect other goalie stats is because wins and losses don't begin to tell the true story of a goaltender's career.
My point. In the last 4 seasons Kipprusoff has been elite. No question.
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leigh
Moderator
Canada
1755 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2006 : 18:02:53
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I think what babs is saying is that Kipprusoff may have done great things in the past, but presently he is not performing to his ability. (I'm really trying to be diplomatic here)
In all seriousness, I agree with babs when he says that Kipper has NOT stolen any games for the Calgary Flames this year. Great goalies steal games. Period! |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2006 : 20:26:30
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| Calgary skates on thin ice (pun intended). They are in mostly low scoring, close games. Last year they were winning the majority of those one goal games. This year, they are not. It's hard to argue that Kipper is giving the Flames a chance each night, they just aren't winning. He is a top 5 statistical goalie. But you are right Babs, that doesn't win games. So, I guess my point is that he is no better or worse than last year. Calgary was winning more games last year. It made him look better. Still a pretty decent goalie. A lot of teams out there would like to have him, and how bad would Calgary be without him?? |
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I HATE CROSBY
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
538 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2006 : 20:28:14
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I think it's pretty obvious sidney crosby is the most overrrated....
Ppl make it out like he's had a great career...he's a great prospect, but he is not one of the all time greats yet...it's not like he's even come close to breaking any records .......mark my words, sid is the next eric lindros...big E won a hart trophy, yes, but he never one a cup and was a huge bitch.....seems to me sid is destined for that future (even if he doesn't get brutally injured like the big E)
I HATE CROSBY |
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bablaboushka
PickupHockey Veteran
Canada
2417 Posts |
Posted - 12/29/2006 : 20:46:16
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Yup Kiprusoff is real good:
Last 3 games he's allowed 13 goals. Two of the games were against the 29th ranked offense and one against the 20th ranked offense. Man he sure got bailed out by his team tonight, winning 6-4 against LA. |
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Topic |
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Most overrated player in hockey right now? 
