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chooch
Top Prospect
Afghanistan
60 Posts |
 Posted - 03/07/2007 : 19:15:05
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quote:
Originally posted by tctitans
I hate to post again, but I have to post again.
Chooch, you dont know beans. (notice it's not Beans) ;)
You have all these worries about The Greatest One's ESGA...
Let me ask you... What's your comment on his
+40, +81, +60, +76, +98, +71, ... seaons and his +514 career +/-?
Wayne also had the leagues BEST +/- 4 times - doesnt sound like
a problem I'd have if i were his coach.
Year Team GP Goals Assists Points +/- PIM
79-80 Oilers 79 51 86 137 0 21
80-81 Oilers 80 55 109 164 41 28
81-82 Oilers 80 92 120 212 81 26
82-83 Oilers 80 71 125 196 60 59
83-84 Oilers 74 87 118 205 76 39
84-85 Oilers 80 73 135 208 98 52
85-86 Oilers 80 52 163 215 71 46
86-87 Oilers 79 62 121 183 70 28
87-88 Oilers 64 40 109 149 39 24
88-89 Kings 78 54 114 168 15 26
89-90 Kings 73 40 102 142 8 42
90-91 Kings 78 41 122 163 30 16
91-92 Kings 74 31 90 121 -12 34
92-93 Kings 45 16 49 65 6 6
93-94 Kings 81 38 92 130 -25 20
94-95 Kings 48 11 37 48 -20 6
95-96 Kings 62 15 66 81 -7 32
95-96 Blues 18 8 13 21 -6 2
96-97 Rangers 82 25 72 97 12 28
97-98 Rangers 82 23 67 90 -11 28
98-99 Rangers 69 9 52 61 -27 14
NHL TOTALS 1486 894 1962 2856 514 577
JUST JAW DROPPING STATS.
I dont want to take anything away from his Marvellousness, but Mario's career +/- is +115, never had more than a +55 in a season, and his best seasons were +55, +41, +27, +23, and had 5 minus seasons spread thoughout his career (Gretz only got to the minuses as his career dwindled).
Messier? well he was a slightly better +210 in his career.. but he had minus seasons spread throughout his career and never had more than a +40 season.
EVEN Gretzy's +/- is simply Great!!
Orr did you say? Yes, Orr was amazing too! His +124 record season will probably live forever (Although Robinson almost broke it ;))! But even Orr, probably the #1 player in the history of the NHL when you think of +/-, wasnt that that much different...
Orr's 124, 86, 84, 80, 65, 54
Gret's 98, 81, 76, 71, 70, 60
QED
Youre deluded.
Gretzky was a liability on the ice to his team for most of his career. You are a sucker who can make Barnett smile.
The fact is that Lafleur in a 130 point season was a +80. Gretzky was a +80 in a 200 point season. Can I dumb it down for you any more than that?
As I said, if Bowman had said to Guy - ":look we're gonna get 180 GA this year but you go ahead and be on the ice for 150ESGA" I'm sure Lafleur woudl have hit for 250 points with a +80.
Many many players would have 200 point seasons.
And buddy, dont compare Mario to Gretzky. Mario did his thing in the east facing Scott Stevens etc. while Gretzky was turning Keith Brown inside out with a no touch rule to boot.
And yeah, Orr fought, hit and doinated games unlike Gretzky.
Buy Ultimate Gretzky and watch 99's 5 goal game. Utter nonsense. He was a +1 on the night. Thats why the Oilers woudl have won more Cups had they never had 99 than with him. Messier won 6. Wayne 4. |
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Strongest arguments that Gretzky was mediocre 
