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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
 Posted - 03/23/2009 : 14:57:45
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Ok guys, enough with the posting Youtube stuff. It's done, it's over, and anything further will be deleted.
Please follow the forum rules and argue the specific opinion, not the person making the opinion. Regardless if you agree with an opinion or not, everyone is entitled to their own. At the same time, everyone is entited to argue any opinion with any rationale they feel.
DROP THE PERSONAL ATTACKS.
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2009 : 12:40:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
I would love to find stats or clips that would show all the goals against the Leafs this season and see how many could be viewed as a skater not doing their job defensively and/or the goal scorer being wide open.
I would like that too it would make my arguement so much easier for you and all you Toskala believers to see |
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2009 : 12:41:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest8228
quote:
Originally posted by hanley6
quote:
Originally posted by Guest8228
quote:
in Toskala's last 10 games he played 1 good game that was his last game. He only played a hand full of decent games this year.. You can't say it's the team around him because they were doing there job or because he was "injured", thats crap he sucked last year too. Toskala has a losing record this year. The Leafs now have a winning record without him, and they are missing 5 key players I think that's says it all, that's proof enough that Toronto is better off without Toskala
They were 5-1-4 over his last 10 games.
Save percentages over Toskala's last 6 games:
.942
.909
.969
.951
.946
.926
Average shots against him in these games - 38.8. They were 4-0-2 over that span.
Five of these games were against playoff teams.
Add a .939 with a win over Montreal, two OT losses, and a stinker against Tampa where he got chased. That's his last 10 games.
hanley - STOP. Just stop making a fool of yourself. You've provided nothing, mind you NOTHING (over and over, no less) that even hints that you know what you're talking about.....and you've spanned it over 4 pages.
Just STOP. Now.
If you're going to copy/paste your same argument (if that's what you call it), then do it somewhere else.
You add ZERO value here. ZERO little buddy.
like I said before little buddy whats the excuse for toskala's SEASON playing so s***ty?????????? There is no excuse he just sucked all year long. Now he's out and now Toronto is a winning team.
Why don't we start with your comment about him only playing one good game in his last 10 before you change the subject again?
One good game in his last 10, true or false little man?
one good game in his last 10 = TRUE |
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2009 : 12:45:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Reeder17
http://thereedreview.com/clarkyblog1.aspx
We got another Hanley!
Crosby is not the Lord & Savior of the NHL, get over yourself McGuire.
Gretzky has never once high-sticked a member of the Toronto Maple Leafs.
that wasn't me but it goes to show I'm not the only one that can see it. This is the only forum I've seen where everyone is sticking up for Toskala constantly, and it makes no sense |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2009 : 13:07:01
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I thought he played amazing in his last 20 games or so, im pretty sure the hip/groin issue was really bothering him for most of the season. If he has a solid club in front of him I think he could play 60 games as a starter, I do think he needs a solid backup to not only push him, but to give him some rest. He is not a top 10 goalie in the NHL but i think he could be a top 15.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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Guest8228
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Posted - 03/24/2009 : 13:13:45
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quote:
Originally posted by hanley6
quote:
Originally posted by Guest8228
quote:
Originally posted by hanley6
quote:
Originally posted by Guest8228
quote:
in Toskala's last 10 games he played 1 good game that was his last game. He only played a hand full of decent games this year.. You can't say it's the team around him because they were doing there job or because he was "injured", thats crap he sucked last year too. Toskala has a losing record this year. The Leafs now have a winning record without him, and they are missing 5 key players I think that's says it all, that's proof enough that Toronto is better off without Toskala
They were 5-1-4 over his last 10 games.
Save percentages over Toskala's last 6 games:
.942
.909
.969
.951
.946
.926
Average shots against him in these games - 38.8. They were 4-0-2 over that span.
Five of these games were against playoff teams.
Add a .939 with a win over Montreal, two OT losses, and a stinker against Tampa where he got chased. That's his last 10 games.
hanley - STOP. Just stop making a fool of yourself. You've provided nothing, mind you NOTHING (over and over, no less) that even hints that you know what you're talking about.....and you've spanned it over 4 pages.
Just STOP. Now.
If you're going to copy/paste your same argument (if that's what you call it), then do it somewhere else.
You add ZERO value here. ZERO little buddy.
like I said before little buddy whats the excuse for toskala's SEASON playing so s***ty?????????? There is no excuse he just sucked all year long. Now he's out and now Toronto is a winning team.
Why don't we start with your comment about him only playing one good game in his last 10 before you change the subject again?
One good game in his last 10, true or false little man?
one good game in his last 10 = TRUE
Wow. You are more short-sighted than I ever could have projected.
I know, numbers don't mean anything - it's all about positioning. Right Dominik Hasek?
Right.
You win though, hanley. The bible says not to engage in foolish arguments and this has gone well beyond that.
"Toskala sukz b-cuz i sed so" |
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2009 : 13:16:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
I thought he played amazing in his last 20 games or so, im pretty sure the hip/groin issue was really bothering him for most of the season. If he has a solid club in front of him I think he could play 60 games as a starter, I do think he needs a solid backup to not only push him, but to give him some rest. He is not a top 10 goalie in the NHL but i think he could be a top 15.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
if he played for any other team he'd be backup |
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2009 : 13:17:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest8228
quote:
Originally posted by hanley6
quote:
Originally posted by Guest8228
quote:
Originally posted by hanley6
quote:
Originally posted by Guest8228
quote:
in Toskala's last 10 games he played 1 good game that was his last game. He only played a hand full of decent games this year.. You can't say it's the team around him because they were doing there job or because he was "injured", thats crap he sucked last year too. Toskala has a losing record this year. The Leafs now have a winning record without him, and they are missing 5 key players I think that's says it all, that's proof enough that Toronto is better off without Toskala
They were 5-1-4 over his last 10 games.
Save percentages over Toskala's last 6 games:
.942
.909
.969
.951
.946
.926
Average shots against him in these games - 38.8. They were 4-0-2 over that span.
Five of these games were against playoff teams.
Add a .939 with a win over Montreal, two OT losses, and a stinker against Tampa where he got chased. That's his last 10 games.
hanley - STOP. Just stop making a fool of yourself. You've provided nothing, mind you NOTHING (over and over, no less) that even hints that you know what you're talking about.....and you've spanned it over 4 pages.
Just STOP. Now.
If you're going to copy/paste your same argument (if that's what you call it), then do it somewhere else.
You add ZERO value here. ZERO little buddy.
like I said before little buddy whats the excuse for toskala's SEASON playing so s***ty?????????? There is no excuse he just sucked all year long. Now he's out and now Toronto is a winning team.
Why don't we start with your comment about him only playing one good game in his last 10 before you change the subject again?
One good game in his last 10, true or false little man?
one good game in his last 10 = TRUE
Wow. You are more short-sighted than I ever could have projected.
I know, numbers don't mean anything - it's all about positioning. Right Dominik Hasek?
Right.
You win though, hanley. The bible says not to engage in foolish arguments and this has gone well beyond that.
"Toskala sukz b-cuz i sed so"
watch the guy play and you will agree with me and many others that are fed up with Toskala's lack of effort and skill and ability to stop the puck |
Edited by - hanley6 on 03/24/2009 13:19:28 |
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2009 : 13:19:12
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pfffh, im sure Colorado would have loved to have him this year. Same with Ottawa.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2009 : 13:21:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
pfffh, im sure Colorado would have loved to have him this year. Same with Ottawa.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
Raycroft is better than Toskala and so is Budaj
Raycroft has a better record as a Leaf as well which isn't saying much |
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Guest8228
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Posted - 03/24/2009 : 13:23:07
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| Please see the forum guidelines and let this thread die. It has become nothing but an eyesore and a waste of time. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2009 : 18:02:46
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Hanley, I dig you. I really do. I think it's important to have people with differing opinions.
But good God Man, if you are going to make statements, make sure they are factual at least!!!
Raycroft, as a Leaf, played in 91 games, had a record of 39-34-0-14(.428 win %), had a save % of .891, a GAA of 3.17, and 3 shut outs.
Toskala, as a Leaf, has played in 119 games, has a record of 55-42-0-17 (.462 win %), has a save % of .897, a GAA of 2.97, and has 4 shut outs.
There is not a single statistically catagory in goaltending that Raycroft was better than Toskala in if you compare both of their time with the Leafs.
And Raycroft was backing up Toskala!!! Is it that all the hockey minds in Toronto were wrong in that???C'mon, man. It's just absurd. Bring your sandpaper to the table. I love it, but use the facts as they are. |
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goleafsgosjnb
Top Prospect
Canada
98 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2009 : 11:49:27
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I agree with Beans aaaaand especially buddy with the red ink lol.
He's not even playing anymore! It's time to stop talking about him!!! |
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tbar
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
376 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2009 : 12:35:56
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Hanley as far as the Leafs decent play as of late has the thought that the players are playing for their jobs next year gone threw your miind? Lots of the guys who are playing well at this point are doing so because they want to show that they have what it takes to stick around for when the team starts to win again. Look at Ottawa one of the hottest teams as of late. They are doing the same thing because theirs no pressure and they also want to prove something to the guys sitting in the box seats.
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Matt_Roberts85
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
936 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2009 : 12:36:05
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Hey I bet vesa loves it. you know he reads these forumns 
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E". |
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2009 : 15:33:14
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quote:
Originally posted by tbar
Hanley as far as the Leafs decent play as of late has the thought that the players are playing for their jobs next year gone threw your miind? Lots of the guys who are playing well at this point are doing so because they want to show that they have what it takes to stick around for when the team starts to win again. Look at Ottawa one of the hottest teams as of late. They are doing the same thing because theirs no pressure and they also want to prove something to the guys sitting in the box seats.
playing for their jobs, has it ran through your mind that your play all season long is what keeps you your job not the end of the season |
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2009 : 15:35:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
Hey I bet vesa loves it. you know he reads these forumns
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
I hope he does read these forums I'd love to tell him to just give it up because he's not good enough for Toronto |
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Guest4249
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Posted - 03/25/2009 : 19:07:48
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| He's not going to stop - just let it die. Do not respond to this. Do not even type something to agree. Just let it die. |
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Beans15
Moderator
Canada
8286 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2009 : 07:26:11
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Mr. Guest.
Just because you type in big colored letters doesn't mean people will listen to you any further.
Obviously people are still interesting in discussing this, so let them discuss it.
Thanks |
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Guest8228
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Posted - 03/26/2009 : 09:04:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Mr. Guest.
Just because you type in big colored letters doesn't mean people will listen to you any further.
Obviously people are still interesting in discussing this, so let them discuss it.
Thanks
Is it a discussion, or is it 45 people using logic against 1 who isn't? This is now FIVE pages of incessant rambling, continued by one teenager's lack of knowledge and integrity.
It's truly time to let it go.
If you believe you will change his mind, you are wrong. If you post stats, he'll post gibberish. If you post facts, he'll reply with the exact opposite and insist it's the truth.
It's drivel, not discussion. It's completely void of intelligent dialogue. The user in question is essentially cutting and pasting the same pretentious nonsense time and again.
"Discussion", Beans? Really? Come on - you know better. If you think we can't see right through the "...I like you - I do" post, you're a bit on the delusional side. Don't get me wrong - it was the "right" post - you can't insult the guy. But if you think you're hiding anything though, you're in for a treat.
Ok, let's continue the "discussion". |
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2009 : 16:45:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest8228
quote:
Originally posted by Beans15
Mr. Guest.
Just because you type in big colored letters doesn't mean people will listen to you any further.
Obviously people are still interesting in discussing this, so let them discuss it.
Thanks
Is it a discussion, or is it 45 people using logic against 1 who isn't? This is now FIVE pages of incessant rambling, continued by one teenager's lack of knowledge and integrity.
It's truly time to let it go.
If you believe you will change his mind, you are wrong. If you post stats, he'll post gibberish. If you post facts, he'll reply with the exact opposite and insist it's the truth.
It's drivel, not discussion. It's completely void of intelligent dialogue. The user in question is essentially cutting and pasting the same pretentious nonsense time and again.
"Discussion", Beans? Really? Come on - you know better. If you think we can't see right through the "...I like you - I do" post, you're a bit on the delusional side. Don't get me wrong - it was the "right" post - you can't insult the guy. But if you think you're hiding anything though, you're in for a treat.
Ok, let's continue the "discussion".
first of all guest I'm getting closer to 30 and I probably have more hockey knowledge than you do. I was only speaking facts I can't help it that non Leafs fans are blind and actually think Toskala is a good goalie.
I've shown you facts that the Leafs are better off without him as the Leafs are a weaker team now than they were with Toskala pre Trade deadline. But with Gerber and Joseph, Toronto is now a winning team.. both Gerber and Joseph have won more games than lost since Toskala's so called injury. Toskala has won 22 and lost 28 not good at all. as a Leaf he has only 55 wins and 59 losses again not good. He is nothing more than a backup that's all he can be he's just not good enough to be a number 1 goalie for any team |
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Guest0809
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Posted - 03/27/2009 : 17:36:19
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[/quote]
first of all guest I'm getting closer to 30 and I probably have more hockey knowledge than you do. I was only speaking facts I can't help it that non Leafs fans are blind and actually think Toskala is a good goalie.
I've shown you facts that the Leafs are better off without him as the Leafs are a weaker team now than they were with Toskala pre Trade deadline. But with Gerber and Joseph, Toronto is now a winning team.. both Gerber and Joseph have won more games than lost since Toskala's so called injury. Toskala has won 22 and lost 28 not good at all. as a Leaf he has only 55 wins and 59 losses again not good. He is nothing more than a backup that's all he can be he's just not good enough to be a number 1 goalie for any team
[/quote]
hey mr. close to 30...
As a "close-to-30" leaf fan, you probably think you have almost 30 years of experience - when you actually only knew what hockey was when you turned 20 or so. Leaf fans are so dilusional, typical.
Have you ever thought that maybe leaf goalies have a better winning percentage as of late partly due to better players on the ice lately?
Toskala is Toskala - a good number 2 as he always was. However, only Tononto, their media and fans alike with their infinite wisdom could possibly think he would be a good number 1.
So here we go again, Toronto team ruining yet another good hockey player... |
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2009 : 18:31:03
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the media ruining players is a fictional outlook at things its all in the players mind. Cujo in his prime played for the Leafs and never had a problem, Belfour never had a problem. You need to be able to bounce back from a bad game, forget about the past game and think about the present game play your best who cares about the media you need to focus on your play and your team. Toskala can't do that. The media didn't ruin Toskala, Toronto didn't ruin Toskala, Toskala ruined Toskala.
for those of you that are going to bring up Cujo played a bad game tonight yes he did. but this was his first bad game of the season the first game he didn't look focused at all. Toskala had many of those games this year countless times. Cujo will be able to rebound off that next time he plays because he has that ability |
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Guest4249
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Posted - 03/27/2009 : 18:40:05
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quote:
first of all guest I'm getting closer to 30 and I probably have more hockey knowledge than you do. I was only speaking facts I can't help it that non Leafs fans are blind and actually think Toskala is a good goalie.
I've shown you facts that the Leafs are better off without him as the Leafs are a weaker team now than they were with Toskala pre Trade deadline. But with Gerber and Joseph, Toronto is now a winning team.. both Gerber and Joseph have won more games than lost since Toskala's so called injury. Toskala has won 22 and lost 28 not good at all. as a Leaf he has only 55 wins and 59 losses again not good. He is nothing more than a backup that's all he can be he's just not good enough to be a number 1 goalie for any team
I'm going to stick with "teenager" until you show some respect and/or intelligence - I'll let you choose which.
Toskala rulz b-cuz I sed so. <--my argument to make this post legit.
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Guest4249
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Posted - 03/27/2009 : 18:52:03
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quote:
Toskala has won 22 and lost 28 not good at all
Impressive way to bend the stats by the way. Suggesting you did this on purpose, however, is an enormous stretch.
22 wins and 28 losses = 44 points
22 wins, 17 losses and 11 OT losses = 55 points
Funny that you would miss such a stat. From a non-statistical standpoint, that means he continues to keep his team in games.
You just keep firing us "facts" Steve-o.
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Guest4249
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Posted - 03/27/2009 : 18:59:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4249
quote:
Toskala has won 22 and lost 28 not good at all
Impressive way to bend the stats by the way. Suggesting you did this on purpose, however, is an enormous stretch.
22 wins and 28 losses = 44 points
22 wins, 17 losses and 11 OT losses = 55 points
Funny that you would miss such a stat. From a non-statistical standpoint, that means he continues to keep his team in games.
You just keep firing us "facts" Steve-o.
Gerber has gotten Toronto 8 out of 16 possible points in his 8 starts. 50%
Toskala - 55 out of 106. 51.8%
Hurry, I'm making you look like an IDIOT (again), copy/paste some non-statistical stuff like, "if he arentout of posishion all the tyme he be better but he sukcs because cujo is better and only gets to play one game a week but toskala playz everygame and sucks cuz he dont have good team."
By the way, that's another great argument you have:
Toskala only looked good in San Jose because they are good. Then, you say that the Leafs are a good team and he brings them down.
So which is it? He's only good in front of good teams? Because, if Toronto is so "good"..... See, I'm confused again hanley?
14 out of a possible 20 points for Toronto his last 10 games....but he only played good once. You keep sticking with that. |
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Guest4249
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Posted - 03/27/2009 : 19:14:01
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quote:
Gerber is a good goalie even with a crap team like Ottawa, Gerber actually looked good with Ottawa this year... Ottawa was stupid getting rid of him. Toskala is just a s***ty goalie that's all there is too it.. You will see a huge difference now that Toskala is gone. I can promise you that. Gerber and Joseph are good, post trade deadline Washington taken down, next stop Edmonton.
GO LEAFS
Gerber started 14 games for Ottawa. He won 4 games - ALL FOUR against teams NOT in the playoffs right now.
Sorry, but I can go all day. You've given me a lot..... |
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Guest4249
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Posted - 03/27/2009 : 19:26:56
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quote:
...Toskala is the big reason why they aren't in a playoff spot right now, another reason is with the long weeks without Luke Schenn, Mike Van Ryn and Tomas Kaberle when they were injured.. They are all playing now, they have a chance and it might happen but if they want to make the playoffs they need to stop playing Toskala day in and day out
Wait, so which is it? You'd go on to say that Toskala lost while having all their guys and Gerber is winning without a bunch of guys. But here...it's something different.
I'm confused.
Maybe Tomas Kaberle is a good offencive defenceman and nothing more? Maybe it's a coincidence that Kaberle played only 1 of Toskala's last 10 games - a stretch where they took 14 points.
But, I'm sure it's just me. After all, he's out of position most of the time. |
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Guest4249
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Posted - 03/27/2009 : 19:29:05
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quote:
Originally posted by hanley6
quote:
Originally posted by Matt_Roberts85
pfffh, im sure Colorado would have loved to have him this year. Same with Ottawa.
There is no "I" in team, but there is an "M" and an "E".
Raycroft is better than Toskala and so is Budaj
Raycroft has a better record as a Leaf as well which isn't saying much
Another set of "facts" IMMEDIATELY debunked by Beans. I know, I know - out of position. |
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Guest4249
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Posted - 03/27/2009 : 19:35:10
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quote:
...Toskala couldn't see or stop a 6 foot beach ball if it was right in front of him traveling 4 kilometers a minute...
The beach ball thing is funny but.... 4km per minute? Isn't that almost 150 mph? Did I do the math right? |
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Guest4249
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Posted - 03/27/2009 : 19:37:50
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Thanks hanley, that was fun. When you turn drool into a response, don't get any on the keyboard, ok?
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2009 : 20:19:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4249
quote:
Toskala has won 22 and lost 28 not good at all
Impressive way to bend the stats by the way. Suggesting you did this on purpose, however, is an enormous stretch.
22 wins and 28 losses = 44 points
22 wins, 17 losses and 11 OT losses = 55 points
Funny that you would miss such a stat. From a non-statistical standpoint, that means he continues to keep his team in games.
You just keep firing us "facts" Steve-o.
overtime loss is still a loss my friend... Just a few years back you didn't even get a point for losing in overtime |
Edited by - hanley6 on 03/27/2009 20:48:46 |
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2009 : 20:36:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4249
quote:
Gerber is a good goalie even with a crap team like Ottawa, Gerber actually looked good with Ottawa this year... Ottawa was stupid getting rid of him. Toskala is just a s***ty goalie that's all there is too it.. You will see a huge difference now that Toskala is gone. I can promise you that. Gerber and Joseph are good, post trade deadline Washington taken down, next stop Edmonton.
GO LEAFS
Gerber started 14 games for Ottawa. He won 4 games - ALL FOUR against teams NOT in the playoffs right now.
Sorry, but I can go all day. You've given me a lot.....
in the 14 games Gerber played for Ottawa he beat Phoenix, Tampa Bay, Dallas and Edmonton had a goals against average of 2.86 and a save % of .899. Edmonton and Dallas probably will make the playoffs
with Toronto Gerber has started 8 games has 4 wins and 3 loses the other win went to Cujo because the score was tied 2-2 when Gerber got suspended which was a ridiculous call because he barely touched him. Gerber has beat teams like Washington, New York Islanders, Calgary and Montreal 2 out of 4 of those teams are currently in a playoff spot. |
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2009 : 20:54:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4249
quote:
...Toskala couldn't see or stop a 6 foot beach ball if it was right in front of him traveling 4 kilometers a minute...
The beach ball thing is funny but.... 4km per minute? Isn't that almost 150 mph? Did I do the math right?
I meant 4 kilometers an hour not a minute |
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2009 : 22:20:06
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Curtis Joseph game logs coming into games because of Toskala's poorness
October 11 against Montreal Toskala started, played 40 minutes and allowed 6 goals in 23 shots, Cujo played 20 minutes stopped 11 out of 11 shots
November 15 against Vancouver, Toskala started, played 30 minutes allowed 4 goals in 9 shots, Cujo played 30 minutes and stopped 6 out of 6 shots
December 18 against Boston, Toskala started, played 25 minutes allowed 4 goals in 11 shots, Cujo played 35 minutes allowed 4 goals out 16 shots cujo gets the loss because of Toskala's poor play.
December 23 against Dallas, Toskala started, played 32 minutes allowed 7 goals in 27 shots, Cujo played 28 minutes and only let in 1 in 10 shots.
January 8 against Montreal, Toskala started, played 40 minutes allowed 5 goals in 21 shots, Cujo played 20 minutes allowed 1 in 8 shots.
February 12 against Tampa Bay, Toskala started, played 19 minutes allowed 4 goals against 12 shots, Cujo played 41 minutes allowed 2 goals in 19 shots, Cujo gets the loss again because of Toskala's poor playing.
there was more games where they should have pulled Toskala and put in Joseph but they played him the whole game. like:
October 13 against St. Louis, allowed 4 goals out of 26 shots and loss in a shootout 5-4
October 29 against New Jersey although he got the win in a shootout he allowed 5 goals in 31 should have been pulled
November 4 against Carolina allowed 5 goals in 24 shots overtime loss
November 11 against Calgary allowed 4 goals in 32 shots
November 17 against Boston allowed 3 goals in 22 shots, the first 2 goals in a matter of 6 minutes of the game he allowed 2 out of 2 shots should have been pulled then
November 22 against Chicago, allowed 5 goals in 36 shots overtime loss
December 2 against San Jose, allowed 5 goals in 30 shots
December 4 against Phoenix, allowed 6 goals in 26 shots
December 26 against NYI, allowes 4 goals in 31 shots
January 6 against Florida, allowed 4 goals in 34 shots
January 15 against Carolina, although they won 6-4, he allowed 4 goals in 32 shots should have been pulled allowing 4 Carolina goals in a row.
January 16 against Atlanta, allowed 4 goals in 38 shots overtime loss
January 29 against Colorodo, allowed 4 goals in 20 shots Toronto won 7-4 but Toskala should have been pulled because of his poor playing ability
January 31 against Pittsburgh, although Toronto won 5-4, Toskala allowed 4 goals in 26 shots
February 3 against Florida, allowed 4 goals in 31 shots overtime loss
February 10 against Florida, allowed 5 goals in 38 shots overtime loss
February 26 against NYI, although Toronto won 5-4 in a shootout, he allowed 4 goals in 44 shots
these are not stats a number 1 goalie should be producing day in and day out. it's pathetic
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Guest4249
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Posted - 03/28/2009 : 06:08:51
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quote:
Originally posted by hanley6
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4249
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Toskala has won 22 and lost 28 not good at all
Impressive way to bend the stats by the way. Suggesting you did this on purpose, however, is an enormous stretch.
22 wins and 28 losses = 44 points
22 wins, 17 losses and 11 OT losses = 55 points
Funny that you would miss such a stat. From a non-statistical standpoint, that means he continues to keep his team in games.
You just keep firing us "facts" Steve-o.
overtime loss is still a loss my friend... Just a few years back you didn't even get a point for losing in overtime
I just woke up....did I go back in time? Is it a few years ago? Oh, I see that it's still a point for a OTL. Whew!
Considering that a Shootout loss used to be a tie, not a loss....well, it's always convenient how you forget to add the facts that don't help your discussion instead of ALL of the facts. You've got that game down. |
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Guest4249
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Posted - 03/28/2009 : 06:13:35
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quote:
Originally posted by hanley6
quote:
Originally posted by Guest4249
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Gerber is a good goalie even with a crap team like Ottawa, Gerber actually looked good with Ottawa this year... Ottawa was stupid getting rid of him. Toskala is just a s***ty goalie that's all there is too it.. You will see a huge difference now that Toskala is gone. I can promise you that. Gerber and Joseph are good, post trade deadline Washington taken down, next stop Edmonton.
GO LEAFS
Gerber started 14 games for Ottawa. He won 4 games - ALL FOUR against teams NOT in the playoffs right now.
Sorry, but I can go all day. You've given me a lot.....
in the 14 games Gerber played for Ottawa he beat Phoenix, Tampa Bay, Dallas and Edmonton had a goals against average of 2.86 and a save % of .899. Edmonton and Dallas probably will make the playoffs
with Toronto Gerber has started 8 games has 4 wins and 3 loses the other win went to Cujo because the score was tied 2-2 when Gerber got suspended which was a ridiculous call because he barely touched him. Gerber has beat teams like Washington, New York Islanders, Calgary and Montreal 2 out of 4 of those teams are currently in a playoff spot.
Are you arguing FOR or AGAINST his good play? You simply added the recaps without any comparison or argument. If you're calling these numbers "good", I suppose you've got some more back-pedaling to do. |
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Guest4249
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Posted - 03/28/2009 : 06:24:49
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quote:
Originally posted by hanley6
Curtis Joseph game logs coming into games because of Toskala's poorness
October 11 against Montreal Toskala started, played 40 minutes and allowed 6 goals in 23 shots, Cujo played 20 minutes stopped 11 out of 11 shots
November 15 against Vancouver, Toskala started, played 30 minutes allowed 4 goals in 9 shots, Cujo played 30 minutes and stopped 6 out of 6 shots
December 18 against Boston, Toskala started, played 25 minutes allowed 4 goals in 11 shots, Cujo played 35 minutes allowed 4 goals out 16 shots cujo gets the loss because of Toskala's poor play.
December 23 against Dallas, Toskala started, played 32 minutes allowed 7 goals in 27 shots, Cujo played 28 minutes and only let in 1 in 10 shots.
January 8 against Montreal, Toskala started, played 40 minutes allowed 5 goals in 21 shots, Cujo played 20 minutes allowed 1 in 8 shots.
February 12 against Tampa Bay, Toskala started, played 19 minutes allowed 4 goals against 12 shots, Cujo played 41 minutes allowed 2 goals in 19 shots, Cujo gets the loss again because of Toskala's poor playing.
there was more games where they should have pulled Toskala and put in Joseph but they played him the whole game. like:
October 13 against St. Louis, allowed 4 goals out of 26 shots and loss in a shootout 5-4
October 29 against New Jersey although he got the win in a shootout he allowed 5 goals in 31 should have been pulled
November 4 against Carolina allowed 5 goals in 24 shots overtime loss
November 11 against Calgary allowed 4 goals in 32 shots
November 17 against Boston allowed 3 goals in 22 shots, the first 2 goals in a matter of 6 minutes of the game he allowed 2 out of 2 shots should have been pulled then
November 22 against Chicago, allowed 5 goals in 36 shots overtime loss
December 2 against San Jose, allowed 5 goals in 30 shots
December 4 against Phoenix, allowed 6 goals in 26 shots
December 26 against NYI, allowes 4 goals in 31 shots
January 6 against Florida, allowed 4 goals in 34 shots
January 15 against Carolina, although they won 6-4, he allowed 4 goals in 32 shots should have been pulled allowing 4 Carolina goals in a row.
January 16 against Atlanta, allowed 4 goals in 38 shots overtime loss
January 29 against Colorodo, allowed 4 goals in 20 shots Toronto won 7-4 but Toskala should have been pulled because of his poor playing ability
January 31 against Pittsburgh, although Toronto won 5-4, Toskala allowed 4 goals in 26 shots
February 3 against Florida, allowed 4 goals in 31 shots overtime loss
February 10 against Florida, allowed 5 goals in 38 shots overtime loss
February 26 against NYI, although Toronto won 5-4 in a shootout, he allowed 4 goals in 44 shots
these are not stats a number 1 goalie should be producing day in and day out. it's pathetic
Congratulations, hanley. The VERY FIRST EVER time you posted some facts.
I'll need some more time to digest this....but I'll ask until I get back: Who are the top goalies in the league? In order.... |
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Guest4249
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Posted - 03/28/2009 : 13:06:34
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quote:
these are not stats a number 1 goalie should be producing day in and day out. it's pathetic
So, "day in and day out" is a bit dramatic. Basically a game per month he was off.
Since a bunch of my good examples probably won't be considered good enough goalies for you, I decided to use a comparable example:
Roberto Luongo in the 2005-2006 season for Florida. An 85 point team at seasons end, missing the playoffs. A decent team, including the likes of O. Jokinnen, Nieuwendyk, Stumpel, Horton, Bouwmeester, Gelinas, Roberts, Gratton, Van Ryn, Weiss, etc. Luongo was chased TEN times that season.
In other various games where he did NOT get pulled, he did this (shots/goals):
34/4
40/5
38/5
28/5
39/4
39/4
25/3
25/4
23/5
32/4
27/6
35/5
37/4
27/3
34/5
29/3
33/4
Basically on par with Toskala's year. A whole bunch of sub par games, along with some very good games. From a consistency standpoint, Vesa has less ups and downs - he's not as good, but he has less strings of great games and lousy games - instead he has a bunch of good games and then a stinker about once a month.
I didn't include Luongo's 45/4 games, because that's essentially a .910 % (even though you counted one against V.T.)
So, back to the very crux of this entire argument:
Good goalie on a bad team? That depends? Isn't Roberto Luongo a top 3 goalie in the world?
Vesa Toskala is a good goalie on a bad team. Period.
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hanley6
PickupHockey Pro
Canada
674 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2009 : 14:47:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Guest4249
Congratulations, hanley. The VERY FIRST EVER time you posted some facts.
I'll need some more time to digest this....but I'll ask until I get back: Who are the top goalies in the league? In order....
[/quote]
first ever eh???? I've mentioned lots of facts that's all I do.
to me the top goalies in the League are Kiprusoff, Steve Mason, Luongo, Tim Thomas and Brodeur |
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Vesa Toskala Guilty? 
Topic Locked
